James McDowall: Motor Trade Association Advocacy Head on the plan to replace NCEA

Excitement from the trades sector for a better pipeline for high school students.  

The Government is looking to phase out NCEA over five years – replaced with a foundation test in Year 11 and certificates in Years 12 and 13.  

It also wants to improve vocational pathways for students entering the workforce.   

Motor Trade Association Advocacy Head James McDowall told Mike Hosking NCEA is an absolute mess.  

He says it isn't effective when students only pick up occasional credits in vocational pathways.  

McDowall also says NCEA has far too much flexibility – saying credits for changing a car's oil doesn't give someone the experience to be an automotive engineer. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So perhaps one of the more exciting parts of the
new still school curriculum reform, very direct link to the
trades and vocational training subjects will be co designed with
industry to boost career viability. James mcdowald is the head
of Advocacy at the MTA and is with us. James, morning, morning, Mike.
How are you good? Are you excited?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I am. It's a very a very welcome change. It
was a pleasure to attend the funeral yesterday of nca
and I very much look forward to the future and
particularly what we're going to be doing with vocational pathways.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
What's your interface currently with the schooling system.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, this Gateway program which tries to go in there
and get kids and get them to on job environments,
it's you know, tertiary fundered and not paid for. That
there's a little bit of interface, but ultimately the big
problem with NCAA is it's just an absolute dog's breakfast
And when you've got more than forty percent of kids
who pict just a few credits here and there in

(00:57):
vocational pathways, that's it's not a pathway into the serious
pathway into the trades. That's then just you know and
that's how the system works and incentivisers gaming the system
and picking up little credits here and there. So doing
away with all of that what we would very much
like to see now, and it's part of the consultation

(01:17):
process is saying, look, okay, we're going to do these
big core subjects. Let's have, say, in our case, an
automotive subject, and we all work with the polytechs and
providers like MITO that do the on job training and
start the moving exactly the best.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
So I want to be an engineer in F one.
Is that how it's going to work for me. I'll
do my maths, I'll do my English, and I'll do
something that channels me towards that.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yes, it's a lot like the old day. It's a
lot like the old system, or perhaps more contemporarily like
more like Cambridge. At the moment where you have your
core subjects, there will be much less choice, for sure.
I mean that's the problem with NCDA. There's just far
too much flexibility. You've got something like over eleven thousand
unit standards you can choose from that make up these qualifications.

(02:05):
That's just a complete mess. You know, you might get
a few credits for learning how to put oil in
a car. That does not make you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, No,
it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Do you think we will be able to it, because
I've been being on about this literally for years. Do
you think we will be able to break the psychological
whatever it is that we have with university, Not that
university is bad or any of that of your on
a pathway, but this this fixation with getting a be
calm or whatever it is, as opposed to the trades
which are second place.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well that's been one of the strong messages from the
government and then talking to ministers in the last few days,
and they would really like to see the trades elevated
and not seen as you know, a fallback option for
those that don't do very well at school. You know,
let's be honest, these are highly skilled roles and these
are future business owners and having a much more coherent

(02:55):
pathway into whether it's full on job training through MITO
or whether it's an to a polytechnic, having that they're
in the school and then they get halfway halfway through
this thing anyway, that will raise its profile. I think.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So that's this part good stuff. James Wilder, James mcdell,
who's with the MTA this morning. I reckon that was
the most positive government announcement that's been made so far
in this government in terms of reaction. Our newsroom ran
a few negative stories, as they normally do, but apart
from that, overall, yesterday seem to me for something as
large as it is, and believe me, it's large, overall,
most people seem to say thank the Good Lord for that.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
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