David Seymour: Deputy Prime Minister on the Palestine Debate, Chlöe Swarbrick being barred from Parliament

Parliament is becoming increasingly divided over the situation with Palestine.  

Greens co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick was barred from Parliament yesterday when she suggested MPs not backing her bill to sanction Israel were spineless. 

She believes an apology from her isn't needed, and is engaging with Speaker Gerry Brownlee about returning to the House today. 

Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour raised the question to Mike Hosking of how can you call for an international rules-based order when you can’t follow the basic rules in your own workplace. 

Swarbrick has been a Member of Parliament for more than half her life, he said, so she should be able to debate on the issues – and if she can’t, she should be asking why she’s not persuading people.  

LISTEN ABOVE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the Polly's got themselves in another not over Palestine.
Yesterday's Warbrick reminded us all yet again the composure and
maturity aren't who Forte actually got booted from the house.
Chris Hipkins tried to make it political by suggesting active
vetoing the government's move to declare statehood. Deputy Prime Minister
David Seymour back with this, good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning makee.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I was watching, as I always do because I'm a
tragic but I thought, you point about the scarves is right?
What are the rules in Parliament around the scarfs? So
she drapes a scarf around the back of a seat.
You raise it brownly, goes good point. Suddenly she wraps
it around a neck. What's all that about?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, the point is you're supposed to come to Parliament,
set aside all personal and private interest and debate the
ideas rather than the person. Our Parliament's evolved a whole
lot of rules over the years, actually over hundreds of
years to make sure that you can actually have a
debate on the facts rather than really a circus where

(00:50):
people get up and do hakka display banners. You know
you can have that, but it just attracts from the
actual discussion of ideas that we're supposed to promote.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
You're part of the problem with Palestinian debate, and I
suppose it's been as old as time, but you get people,
unfortunately like Chloe, who lose the plot. And that's the
difficulty of the debate, isn't You can't have a debate
because there'll be someone in the room like her that
goes nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I thought yesterday Chloe Swarbrick, we kind of reached peak. Chloe.
You had the moral supremacy, just like all extremists, the
idea that your cause is so right you don't have
to follow the rules. You can just assert it over
everybody else, even if it stops the institution functioning. And
I just make the point that, you know, how can

(01:35):
you call for an international rules based order when you
can't follow the basic rules in your own workplace. I mean,
she's been a member of Parliament for more than half
her life. As far as I can tell, she should
be able to debate on the issues, and if she can't,
she should be asking why am I not persuading people? No?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Shouldjeria back down? I mean he booted her up for
the week now, if she comes back and says sorry,
which I don't know whether she will or not, she
can come back today. Is that fair? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I mean that's usually been the way it works. I mean, obviously,
you know, you've got to say that the speaker's right,
and I support his decision, so I'm not going to
comment on whether he should or shouldn't. But basically, the
point is to restore order in the house. So if
someone's willing to do that, then you should usually allow them.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Weird thing with Hipkins yesterday, who's claiming you're vetoing the
government recognizing the Palestinian state. Your claim is that Harmas
need to be demilitarized. Does that indicate that Hipkins is
happy for Hamas not to be demilitarized and therefore you
should get on with it? Is that what I'm reading
from what he said?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, I mean, first of all, Chriss Hipkins doesn't know
what's happening in cabinet. The people of New Zealand dejected
him from cabinet because frankly, he was a bit useless
and was still paying off all the debty racked up,
among other costs imposed on society. But you know what
is happening is the government has said we are going
to over the next few weeks come to a position

(02:59):
that takes into account all of the facts. It's not
as simple as just saying, look, yep, we want to
be friends with terrorists tomorrow. There have to be a
series of conditions. If his position is just reward terrorism
and make friends with Hamas, then that's yet another reason
to work out and win the election next year.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Here's the weird thing for me as a person that
you political classes. I mean, what do you think is
going to change here? I mean what literally changed? So
you today? There we go, we recognize the Palestinian state.
What happens nothing.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh, I'm sure that the people in the Middle East,
the thing they've really been waiting for for the last
four thousand years is for New Zealand to take a position.
I mean, come on, it is ultimately a question of
New Zealand being comfortable with itself rather than having a
material impact on what happens over there. Nonetheless, I think

(03:51):
it's important that our country actually does uphold good values,
and you don't do that by simply responding to emotion,
which I understand. I understand people are seeing this stuff
on Instagram, and they're seeing it on TikTok and on
this six o'clock news every night. I get it, But
the issue is not to be the most sort of

(04:11):
virtue signaling person to demonstrate your own moral supremacy by
saying that you have a spine. What Chloe really needs
to see as a brain so that we can come
to a solution that is workable and that respects the
rights and values of all the people involved, including of
course a democratic country that has been under attack and

(04:34):
continues to have its citizens held as hostages. Those facts
matter too, and I think if you're prepared to have
a proper discussion, you can get to that. But yesterday
we saw people who, as you hinted before, are actually
sabotaging the ability to do it through their own moral righteousness.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Appreciate it, right, David say more.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast iHeartRadio.