Thomas Scrimgeour: New Zealand could secure a place in the global AI economy with a sustainable data centre

New Zealand could secure a place in the global AI economy with a sustainable data centre

Research by the Maxim Institute has looked at leveraging the country's renewable energy, cool climate, and strong privacy laws to become a hub in the Asia–Pacific. 

Researcher Thomas Scrimgeour says high energy costs must be tackled in order to seize the opportunity. 

He told Mike Hosking AI servers use huge amounts of energy - but some large players are already investing in New Zealand. 

Scrimgeour says Amazon and Microsoft are investing heavily, and is expected to count for about 10 billion dollars in GDP over the next 15 years. 

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A new reportant to what we need to do energy
wise when it comes to things like AI. We want
it is claim to become a data hub.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
To do this, we need to look at small scale
You're ready, small scale nuclear reactors. Thomas Scrimship, researcher at
the Maximum Institutes with us, Thomas Morning, Morning, Mike. Do
we want to become an AI and data center country?
It doesn't everybody? And if we do, aren't we behind
the race already?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, we certainly have a wonderful opportunity here to be
thinking about how we can expand this industry. Now, we
already have some of these data centers here in New Zealand,
both smaller local providers but also Amazon and Microsoft are
investing reasonably heavily in New Zealand. It's expected to count
for about ten billion dollars of GDP over the next
fifteen years. So there are things already happening. And I

(00:47):
guess the advantage we have is that we have a
relatively cool climate, and we have renewable energy, which some
investors will think is a feature, and then reasonably good
privacy laws. So we are an attractive opportunity here. But
we need to make the right steps keep growing it in.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
The scale up required power wise, is nuclear the only way.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, nuclear is not the only way. The secret with
energy production is to pursue all options. The government has
just announced in the last few months a sixty million
dollar investment and researching super critical geothermal. So that's like
conventional geo thermal energy, but you go deeper and find
more power. So that's another pushing out the boat a

(01:29):
bit to see some emerging technologies, but conventional things like
hydro and geothermal are great as well. So we want
all sorts of energy.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Are they? Because that's why I asked the question. I mean,
we can't even produce enough power to keep the lights
on on a cold winter's morning for goodness sake. From
everything I'm reading with AI and data, it needs to
be exponentially growing. And that's what more more dams, more propellers,
more panels.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, absolutely we small nuclear reactors are an excellent sort
of energy that we should be exploring. The International Energy
Agencies report earlier this year was titled a New Era
for Nuclear Energy. The world is heavily heavily investing in
nuclear power. Over thirty countries have signed a pledge to

(02:18):
triple nuclear power production by twenty fifty. The world is
returning to nuclear power because it is clean, because it
is reliable, is always there for you. The nuclear power
is something we should be looking at.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
That is correct, And you offer logic to me this morning,
and yet there will be many in New Zealand are
going absolutely not. How do you get over that hurdle?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Well, the first thing I want to point out is
that New Zealand's opposition to nuclear power is quite recent
in the nineteen seventies, so not that long ago. In
the nineteen seventies we had a Royal Commission on Nuclear
Power and a release report in nineteen seventy eight that
was expecting a significant nuclear power program in New Zealand
by the early twenty first century. It's only since the

(03:00):
nineteen eighties we became a country that reacted against nuclear
power because of its associations with weapons testing in the Pacific.
But nuclear energy is not the same thing as a
nuclear bomb, and New Zealand hasn't always been opposed to
nuclear energy. Once upon a time we were expecting to
get nuclear power, and we can talk people back into that.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Almost too much logic for us to handle on a Monday, Thomas,
well done, Thomas Scrims, you're out of the Maximum Institute.
This morning.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio