August 27, 2025 • 10 mins
Nicola Willis says she's not bluffing with the idea of potentially breaking up the supermarket duopoly.
The Economic Growth Minister has introduced a fast track consenting process for supermarkets encouraging more players into the market.
She told Mike Hosking it’s a welcome mat for international players that makes it very clear in law and regulation that opening stores in New Zealand is easier than elsewhere.
Willis says this is a big issue for New Zealand, and she’s going the things that are sensible to help.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back to the supermarkets and the Willis crusade to make
you trolley cheaper. Yesterday we got the fast laying news.
Also a single consent Authority designated to handle development's nationwide.
Nicola Willis is the Minister for Economic Growth and is
back for this.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Now I'm disappointed at the moment because what we got yesterday,
correct me if I'm wrong, had already been talked about
and announced, hadn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
No, it hadn't been. Because what we announced yesterday is
a change to the Fast Track Act, which bear in mind,
was only pass in December. Sure that there is an
express lane specifically for new supermarket competitors when out it
for the first time, there will be a nationwide Building
Content Authority that can speed up all building consents for
(00:42):
new supermarket competitors. That we will have a multi proof
scheme where they can get multiple building consents issued at once.
That we will streamline the pathway to new competitors through
the Overseas Investment Act. That we will amend the Commerce
Act to stop competitors using predatory pricing to stamp out
new entrance, and that we will be looking at innovative
(01:03):
solutions to make sure we can import products from overseas
that have labels that don't currently meet our regulations. Those
are the specific issues raised by the people actively looking
at New Zealand as a potential place to invest in
a new supermarket. So we're responding to the people in
the know based on facts, having done the work.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Fantastic, But you've said all that before, because I've done
interviews on each and every one of those subjects and
it's all been pre announced.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I have never announced before that we will be introducing
a law and passing it by Christmas to create an
express lane for supermarkets. And yes, you're right, lots of
people have talked about that, Mike. We're doing it. We
are changing the law in a specific way that responds
directly to the concerns from future competitors. Because I've heard
you on the show this morning, and i just want
to remind you what's at stake, because when a competing
(01:52):
cost co sets up, it's not just about the fact
that it has potentially cheaper prices at local shoppers around
the corner from the cost co and we stalk from
right now, there's a peck and save selling months the
months they sell is a dollar cheaper per telegrams the
months at the peck and save in Botany. Sure, Why well,
I would say to you, when you get a new competitor,
(02:12):
you get more price pressure. That's what we want to
deliver the groom, another Costco, another new season market. That's
good news for everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So yes, options were you're getting tripped up. There are
no more cost CODs and your own admission yesterday, there
might be one more. There might in the Christmas time
be two more in a number of years. What you
wanted was another national player. You haven't got one. I
mean we all agree. Look red tape, yes, clean it up,
get consent, going fantastic, brilliant, But elder, you don't want
(02:41):
to bar of it. Little don't want to bar of it?
Ask yourself why well?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
First of all, we don't want to agree. I remember
we've got an opposition that opposed all of the fast.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, but you forget them. There it is. You're in charge,
you're in the gum. Get on with the red tape
and all that sort of stuff. We're all on board
with that, mate.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Certain, let me take you back to Costco because actually
we've engaged very thoroughly with them because we didn't want
to put forward changes that don't actually work for someone
who's actively looking at new investments. I'm I've said this
will definitely assist them. They think this is a set
of provisions that actually will make New Zealand stand out internationally,
and they have said that they are actively looking at
(03:19):
opening new stores. Now. I don't make their investment decisions,
but what I can do is make sure they've got
the best conditions possible. I also now have a welcome
mat that is very clear in law and regulation that
when we engage with AUDI little other international places Walmart
for example, we can say, look, take another look at
New Zealand. It's way easier to open new stores here
(03:40):
than it is in Australia or elsewhere. Instead of expanding
into another space in Australia, think about New Zealand. You've
got a government who is absolutely raring to go, who
is on your side. Now, I owe it to everyone
to make sure we've taken all those steps before I
take any more dramatic modes. So thorough approach.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, let me come to the regulation in just a
couple of months.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Stated by this mic, we're on the side of a shopper.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
We're all on the side of the shopper, but I
just want more action. Yes I am, but what what
did you do these things? Would this is this is
where your messages are getting mixed.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Crusader is wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Why I would slash, I would slash and burn the paper,
No problem with that. I would make it fast to
do it. What you're you've got to admit costc are
not rolling out a series of nationwide supermarkets.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, what that's indicated to us is that they are
looking at the possibility of several news stores. I take
them at their word, and I've engaged directly with them
to say, well, why is that? And the reason MIC
is not just that they think there are shoppers who
will flop to their stores because they already got more
than one hundred thousand members in Auckland. It's also because
they think New Zealand products are awesome. They're already selling
(04:52):
more than a billion dollars worth of New Zealand food
and their international cost codes, and they want to have
an ongoing relationship with New Zealand which they can take
more of our food products to their international store. So
they see us as a long term proposition that's fantastic.
It is why not get onside and get rid of
the red tape that might slow them down at a
store it would take years to do it. We're going
(05:14):
to make sure it takes a month.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
The problem though with the red tape is that if
Eldie and Little don't want to take part of it,
I mean they can see through that, they can see
what you're trying to do. They're not idiots. So if
they're going to go, look, if you do this, we'll
come on board. They didn't even do that because that
the market's too small. We're five and a half million people.
That's our problem, not the conspiracy you're running.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I disagree with that because what you are seeing
from old is they started small in Australia and they
went on a state by state approach and actually, when
you look at New Zealand, we're not dissimilar in size
to an Australian state. And what you do here from
anyone internationally thinking about investing as they say, well, we
need to understand that we've got regulatory certainty, that we
(05:54):
know how the place works, that we can get things
done quickly with certainty. We are developing all of those
conditions so that they can take another look at us.
We're also got domestic players interested, Mike, and they just
kind of missed yesterday that they're domestic players saying okay,
what would it take, and things like introducing the changes
to the Commerce Act to have proper predatory price in
(06:16):
law really important to people who are considering setting up
shops in New Zealand, because what they don't want to
do is invest hundreds of millions of dollars in capital
only be to be stamped out by the big guys
using their market power and appropriately. So we're taking all
the steps to make this easier. And it's a crusade
was taking on talk to on New Zealand right now.
(06:39):
This is the biggest use of the end and I'm
sensible to help.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, fair enough. Proof is in the pudding. The people
I've forgotten their name, sorry, the people doing your report
on the regulation of the market, the same people who
did it for Labor. What are they called?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, no, they are one of the advisors that we
have employed. And I'm actually taking a range of advice.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But who are.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, I'm not going to tell you with the names
of all of our advisors.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, the one I told us yesterday, the one that's
what they're not called. It starts with the sea come
in here.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Earlier in the year, I confirmed that we had engaged
CORI and initial with Roolis. I'm actually making sure that
we're accessing a wider pool of advisors because what I
want to make sure is that that analysis is thorough.
Because I'm with you, there are risks and costs to
a significant move such as that, so you have to
have looked through it carefully. And the reason I'm not
(07:28):
saying here's the date on which I'm launching the reporters.
When I get that advice, if there are gaps in it,
or there's analysis that I don't think is thorough enough,
you get your bottom dollar. I'm going to go back
to the advisors and say I need more on this,
I need more analysis on that. So I'm not setting
a false deadline. What's important to me is we get
that piece of work right, that was thoroughly looked at it.
Because many of the respondents to the request information we
(07:50):
put out seat actually, you've got a real market power issue.
We think you're going to have to do something structural.
There's lots of options for how we do that. We
think you're going to have to do something about the
dominance of the existing big players if you're really going
to get a competition going.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
In Coriolis did this for Labor, Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They did, and they're doing well because we're now in
a very different time when water has flowed down to
the bridge. We have a lot more data available to
us from the grocery Commissioner. We've also got a government
who is changing the conditions in which competition can occur.
So those are all factors that mean the analysis today
looks very different from the analyomy Labor. Well. I will
(08:31):
be able to reveal that consparently when we when we've
paid it. Well, I can't. I can't tell you that
running thousand so far, Yes, but it will be a
lot cheaper, Mike than you seeing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
This industry where you both get things twice well.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Like you see. Alternative is that I just take advice
from the officials in Wellington who aren't competition experts, haven't
analyzed regulatory frameworks throughout the world, don't have the economists
and economic click modeling, and I'm not going to take
that approach. I want to get the very best advice
available to us, because this is important to.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Keyw When will I be able to walk down Aisle
six and think this is noticeably cheaper because Nikola Willis
was here.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, I think if you were in west Aukland today
and you will no.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No, just assuming that all the costcos aren't being rolled out,
When is this reform going to materially change my supermarket shop?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
When you've got nationwide a competitor and all of the
major urban centers that is making the big guys change
their behavior. Now, this is a problem that built up
over twenty to thirty years and I have never promised
there'll be an overnight solution. But the alternative point of
view is to say, well, because it will take a while,
just don't bother. And I think that is a refrecensible
way to approach government, to say, unless you can solve
(09:50):
a problem in three months with a simple solution, don't
even try it. Well, I'm actually here for the long
term of the country. This is a long term issue
in which our supermarket sector does not work as well
as it does in other countries and as well as
it should. And I am prepared to take the time
to put in long term solutions that may not bear fruit,
that gives me instant votes tomorrow. This is actually more
(10:12):
important than that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Appreciate your time as always, Nicolailei's Minister of Economic Growth.
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Back to the supermarkets and the Willis crusade to make
you trolley cheaper. Yesterday we got the fast laying news.
Also a single consent Authority designated to handle development's nationwide.
Nicola Willis is the Minister for Economic Growth and is
back for this.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Now I'm disappointed at the moment because what we got yesterday,
correct me if I'm wrong, had already been talked about
and announced, hadn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
No, it hadn't been. Because what we announced yesterday is
a change to the Fast Track Act, which bear in mind,
was only pass in December. Sure that there is an
express lane specifically for new supermarket competitors when out it
for the first time, there will be a nationwide Building
Content Authority that can speed up all building consents for
(00:42):
new supermarket competitors. That we will have a multi proof
scheme where they can get multiple building consents issued at once.
That we will streamline the pathway to new competitors through
the Overseas Investment Act. That we will amend the Commerce
Act to stop competitors using predatory pricing to stamp out
new entrance, and that we will be looking at innovative
(01:03):
solutions to make sure we can import products from overseas
that have labels that don't currently meet our regulations. Those
are the specific issues raised by the people actively looking
at New Zealand as a potential place to invest in
a new supermarket. So we're responding to the people in
the know based on facts, having done the work.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Fantastic, But you've said all that before, because I've done
interviews on each and every one of those subjects and
it's all been pre announced.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I have never announced before that we will be introducing
a law and passing it by Christmas to create an
express lane for supermarkets. And yes, you're right, lots of
people have talked about that, Mike. We're doing it. We
are changing the law in a specific way that responds
directly to the concerns from future competitors. Because I've heard
you on the show this morning, and i just want
to remind you what's at stake, because when a competing
(01:52):
cost co sets up, it's not just about the fact
that it has potentially cheaper prices at local shoppers around
the corner from the cost co and we stalk from
right now, there's a peck and save selling months the
months they sell is a dollar cheaper per telegrams the
months at the peck and save in Botany. Sure, Why well,
I would say to you, when you get a new competitor,
(02:12):
you get more price pressure. That's what we want to
deliver the groom, another Costco, another new season market. That's
good news for everyone.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So yes, options were you're getting tripped up. There are
no more cost CODs and your own admission yesterday, there
might be one more. There might in the Christmas time
be two more in a number of years. What you
wanted was another national player. You haven't got one. I
mean we all agree. Look red tape, yes, clean it up,
get consent, going fantastic, brilliant, But elder, you don't want
(02:41):
to bar of it. Little don't want to bar of it?
Ask yourself why well?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
First of all, we don't want to agree. I remember
we've got an opposition that opposed all of the fast.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, but you forget them. There it is. You're in charge,
you're in the gum. Get on with the red tape
and all that sort of stuff. We're all on board
with that, mate.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Certain, let me take you back to Costco because actually
we've engaged very thoroughly with them because we didn't want
to put forward changes that don't actually work for someone
who's actively looking at new investments. I'm I've said this
will definitely assist them. They think this is a set
of provisions that actually will make New Zealand stand out internationally,
and they have said that they are actively looking at
(03:19):
opening new stores. Now. I don't make their investment decisions,
but what I can do is make sure they've got
the best conditions possible. I also now have a welcome
mat that is very clear in law and regulation that
when we engage with AUDI little other international places Walmart
for example, we can say, look, take another look at
New Zealand. It's way easier to open new stores here
(03:40):
than it is in Australia or elsewhere. Instead of expanding
into another space in Australia, think about New Zealand. You've
got a government who is absolutely raring to go, who
is on your side. Now, I owe it to everyone
to make sure we've taken all those steps before I
take any more dramatic modes. So thorough approach.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, let me come to the regulation in just a
couple of months.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Stated by this mic, we're on the side of a shopper.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
We're all on the side of the shopper, but I
just want more action. Yes I am, but what what
did you do these things? Would this is this is
where your messages are getting mixed.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Crusader is wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Why I would slash, I would slash and burn the paper,
No problem with that. I would make it fast to
do it. What you're you've got to admit costc are
not rolling out a series of nationwide supermarkets.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Well, what that's indicated to us is that they are
looking at the possibility of several news stores. I take
them at their word, and I've engaged directly with them
to say, well, why is that? And the reason MIC
is not just that they think there are shoppers who
will flop to their stores because they already got more
than one hundred thousand members in Auckland. It's also because
they think New Zealand products are awesome. They're already selling
(04:52):
more than a billion dollars worth of New Zealand food
and their international cost codes, and they want to have
an ongoing relationship with New Zealand which they can take
more of our food products to their international store. So
they see us as a long term proposition that's fantastic.
It is why not get onside and get rid of
the red tape that might slow them down at a
store it would take years to do it. We're going
(05:14):
to make sure it takes a month.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
The problem though with the red tape is that if
Eldie and Little don't want to take part of it,
I mean they can see through that, they can see
what you're trying to do. They're not idiots. So if
they're going to go, look, if you do this, we'll
come on board. They didn't even do that because that
the market's too small. We're five and a half million people.
That's our problem, not the conspiracy you're running.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I disagree with that because what you are seeing
from old is they started small in Australia and they
went on a state by state approach and actually, when
you look at New Zealand, we're not dissimilar in size
to an Australian state. And what you do here from
anyone internationally thinking about investing as they say, well, we
need to understand that we've got regulatory certainty, that we
(05:54):
know how the place works, that we can get things
done quickly with certainty. We are developing all of those
conditions so that they can take another look at us.
We're also got domestic players interested, Mike, and they just
kind of missed yesterday that they're domestic players saying okay,
what would it take, and things like introducing the changes
to the Commerce Act to have proper predatory price in
(06:16):
law really important to people who are considering setting up
shops in New Zealand, because what they don't want to
do is invest hundreds of millions of dollars in capital
only be to be stamped out by the big guys
using their market power and appropriately. So we're taking all
the steps to make this easier. And it's a crusade
was taking on talk to on New Zealand right now.
(06:39):
This is the biggest use of the end and I'm
sensible to help.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, fair enough. Proof is in the pudding. The people
I've forgotten their name, sorry, the people doing your report
on the regulation of the market, the same people who
did it for Labor. What are they called?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, no, they are one of the advisors that we
have employed. And I'm actually taking a range of advice.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But who are.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, I'm not going to tell you with the names
of all of our advisors.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, the one I told us yesterday, the one that's
what they're not called. It starts with the sea come
in here.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Earlier in the year, I confirmed that we had engaged
CORI and initial with Roolis. I'm actually making sure that
we're accessing a wider pool of advisors because what I
want to make sure is that that analysis is thorough.
Because I'm with you, there are risks and costs to
a significant move such as that, so you have to
have looked through it carefully. And the reason I'm not
(07:28):
saying here's the date on which I'm launching the reporters.
When I get that advice, if there are gaps in it,
or there's analysis that I don't think is thorough enough,
you get your bottom dollar. I'm going to go back
to the advisors and say I need more on this,
I need more analysis on that. So I'm not setting
a false deadline. What's important to me is we get
that piece of work right, that was thoroughly looked at it.
Because many of the respondents to the request information we
(07:50):
put out seat actually, you've got a real market power issue.
We think you're going to have to do something structural.
There's lots of options for how we do that. We
think you're going to have to do something about the
dominance of the existing big players if you're really going
to get a competition going.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
In Coriolis did this for Labor, Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They did, and they're doing well because we're now in
a very different time when water has flowed down to
the bridge. We have a lot more data available to
us from the grocery Commissioner. We've also got a government
who is changing the conditions in which competition can occur.
So those are all factors that mean the analysis today
looks very different from the analyomy Labor. Well. I will
(08:31):
be able to reveal that consparently when we when we've
paid it. Well, I can't. I can't tell you that
running thousand so far, Yes, but it will be a
lot cheaper, Mike than you seeing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
This industry where you both get things twice well.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Like you see. Alternative is that I just take advice
from the officials in Wellington who aren't competition experts, haven't
analyzed regulatory frameworks throughout the world, don't have the economists
and economic click modeling, and I'm not going to take
that approach. I want to get the very best advice
available to us, because this is important to.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Keyw When will I be able to walk down Aisle
six and think this is noticeably cheaper because Nikola Willis
was here.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, I think if you were in west Aukland today
and you will no.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
No, just assuming that all the costcos aren't being rolled out,
When is this reform going to materially change my supermarket shop?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
When you've got nationwide a competitor and all of the
major urban centers that is making the big guys change
their behavior. Now, this is a problem that built up
over twenty to thirty years and I have never promised
there'll be an overnight solution. But the alternative point of
view is to say, well, because it will take a while,
just don't bother. And I think that is a refrecensible
way to approach government, to say, unless you can solve
(09:50):
a problem in three months with a simple solution, don't
even try it. Well, I'm actually here for the long
term of the country. This is a long term issue
in which our supermarket sector does not work as well
as it does in other countries and as well as
it should. And I am prepared to take the time
to put in long term solutions that may not bear fruit,
that gives me instant votes tomorrow. This is actually more
(10:12):
important than that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Appreciate your time as always, Nicolailei's Minister of Economic Growth.
For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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