Nick Clark: Local Government Business Forum Secretary on the call for referendums for major council spending

Voter turnout could be an issue for a proposal to introduce binding referendums on major council spending projects. 

The Local Government Business Forum has released a report in favour of holding referendums for significant projects exceeding $500 per ratepayer. 

It says it should only apply to non-essentials, preserving councils' ability to invest in key utilities like water and transport.   

Forum Secretary Nick Clark told Mike Hosking thresholds need to be in play to help low voter numbers. 

He says there should be a turnout threshold or a super majority, particularly if it's a binary choice. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bit of an idea around councils and they're spending. Speaking
of democracy, Instead of a rate cap, how about a
referenda binding referendum votes would apply to projects over five
hundred dollars per rate payer or five percent of the
council spending. Nick Clark is the Secretary of Local Government
Business for them and as well us. Nick, good morning,
Good morning, Mike. It's a batty, ridiculous idea. You realize that,

(00:20):
don't you.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
We don't think so. I mean, look, we you know,
we recognize fully that rates have gone up massively and
there's huge pressure. There's a lot of pressure to do
things like rates capping, which you know, I mean, as
a ratepayer, I love the idea of it. But when
we had a look at it rates capping, we did

(00:44):
see that internationally that there are some issues with are
including under investment in critical infrastructure, you know, deteriorating public services.
There's all sorts of definitional, definitional issues. What's what will
be used? Will it be to consumer price index that
we all care about it? Would it be local government
cost inflation which would be the base for a cap?

(01:06):
Would you factor in population growth? There's a whole lot
of things that would need to be worked through if
it's going to be done properly. And we thought, well,
let's put this add another idea into the mix that
the government can consider, and this would be giving ratepayers
a direct say in major spedding decisions on non essential projects.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Normally, i'd agree with you if you hadn't had the
by election in Auckland last week. The fact is that
no one will turn up and you'll get a winning
percentage fifty one percent of no one, which is no one.
And that's the problem, isn't it. And you've seen it
in places like California.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, that would certainly be a problem. That's why our
paper suggests there should be things like a perhaps a
turnout threshold and or maybe even a supermajority, particularly if
if it's a binary choice. You don't really want something
with fifty one to forty nine. There's huge amounts of
money at stake and on a twenty percent turnout, totally agree.

(01:58):
That's why you need some thresholds.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Problem with democracy, though, is you're allowing me to turn
out in democracies always right, and that's fantastic. But I'm
allowed to turn out knowing nothing about what I'm voting for,
Whereas you could argue experts and council do not what
you know. In other words, they know better than us.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, I'm not so sure about that, given some of
the quality of decisions that have come out of councils
over the years. I do have a bit of faith
in democracy. I think it's the best form of government,
regardless of all the other types that have been tried.
And you know, I think, you know, obviously, if you
treat voters like adults, you know, they've pat's more likely

(02:36):
if you give them the right information, if you if
you really make an effort to engage with them and
they actually see that they that their vote can make
a difference. Like in the local elections, you know, you
get a bunch of people that you could vote for,
with most of them you don't even know who they are.
Some voting systems, they've got things like STV where you
have to rank thirty people. I mean, it's crazy to

(02:58):
be able to try and make inform sure And frankly,
a lot of people, a lot of voters and particularly
in the local government, think that their votes don't really
make much difference. But if you actually put some skin
in the game in terms of this is actually going
to make a difference, then maybe people will care a
bit more about local democracy.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
You almost turn me Nick, Not quite but almost. Well
done well, argued Nick Clark, secretary of the Local Government
Business Forum.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
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