Gabby Lewis: Criminologist on growing threat of fraud and scam networks to New Zealanders

There are calls for a coordinated response to get on top of rising fraud operations.  

Crypto exchange Swyftx is warning scam networks have evolved into a new form of organised crime, with many operating out of South East Asia.  

Latest data estimates New Zealanders has lost $1.6 billion to online threats in the past year, with this expected to grow without intervention.  

Criminologist Gabby Lewis told Mike Hosking the Government needs to run simple, nationwide campaigns.  

She recommends simple messaging like "slow down, look around, shut it down". 

There’s also a belief more needs to be done to protect New Zealanders from the syndicates. 

Lewis told Hosking the syndicates utilise human trafficking to make their money, the victims forced to stay in compounds and scam people. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This morning to go bolder and bigger on our cybersecurity
crime issues. We had a number of syndicates apparently out
of Southeast Asia targeting us. The bill is one point
six billion dollars a year. We need. They claim to
follow Australia in the UK with laws that force banks,
telcos and social media companies to block fraud. Gabby Lewis's
criminologist and head of fraud and financial crime at swift
Ex and as whether it's Gabby morning.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Good morning mate.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Are things worse or not?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, more needs to be done to protect New Zealander
is from these organized crime syndicates that are operating out
of Southeast Asia. They're generating millions in illicit profits each week.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
When you say crime, what do you mean crime or
is it just scams?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Cybercrime? So essentially what these organized criminal syndicates are doing
is they're actually trafficking humans in these big kind of
compounds within Southeast Asia, So they're victims themselves, and they're
targeting not one country but all countries. And that's for
different sorts of scams that are going around each and

(01:01):
every day.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
So just explain that to me. I mean when you
say they're humans in what way.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
So essentially they offer for these victims to come and
work out of their compounds and it's kind of like
it or tech jobs. And essentially once they enter those compounds,
they can't leave. They're trapped. You know, they've been giving
KPIs to scam people out of millions of dollars each week,
and if they don't get those targets, then they actually

(01:28):
do get punished themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
And whose jurisdiction does that particular activity fall.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
It's so the activity is operating out of Southeast Asia,
however it's targeting every single jurisdiction.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, but what I'm saying is so, I mean in
New Zealand you could be blunt and go, well, I
don't care what they're doing. And you know Vietnam or Cambodia.
Is it Cambodia's problem to sort that side of the
equation out before it becomes our problem when we get scammed.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, absolutely not. You know, we need to tighten things
on our side before we become a large target. As
I mentioned, no jurisdiction is safe. We need the government
essentially to start to work together, you know, Australia and
New Zealand for example, they can join alliance. We need
to run nationwide anti scan campaigns with you know, things
like a simple message something like slow down, look around,

(02:17):
shut it down. It needs to be everywhere, from banks
to telcos to social media, similar to the old slop
slap sun safety campaigns.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Do you think we care or not? I mean, it's
one of those things that until it hits you, you
don't really mind.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
You I yes, there is a level of care. We
are cautious, but we're too slow at this stage. The
scammers don't wait. We need to act now before we
become the next hot spot.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Is this a phishing type exercise where they just machine
gun you with you know, they just try ten thousand people.
Do they find one?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Absolutely? You know, even if they can get one out
of ten thousand, they're profitable.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
And the laws that have been passed in places like
Australia in the UK, what do they do and do
they work?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
So the laws of that are in the UK and
one that's coming into Australia is essentially it's going to
have that more shared responsibility and it's going to start
holding organizations accountable, which will start to make companies do
a bit more and essentially what it's doing is it's
setting the minimum standard. So you know it won't completely

(03:20):
mitigate scam losses. However, it will start to set those
minimum standards. So for example, with social media, you know
there will need to be a vetting process to get
your ad up on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Interesting. Well, we'll see whatere it goes. Gabby appreciate it
very much. Gebby Lewis, who's criminologist hit a fraud and
finance crimeate to swiftix. We had one yesterday. Funnily enough,
Katie's got on who find there's a new app with
the bank, and we had been dealing with yin. Someone
was trying to make a payment of thousands and thousands
of yin Japanese yin, but we stepped it out until

(03:52):
I transferred that. I said, I wonder how much yin
that is? Turned out be one hundred and eighty seven dollars.
So with so that point you slowed down. I don't
know what was going on. I said, how did you
get that app thing on your phone? And anyway, so
I'm just completely oblivious to it all. For more from
the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News Talks at
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(04:14):
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