Chris Bishop: RMA Reform Minister on the proposal to scrap regional councils

RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop says regional councils add layers of confusion, as he looks to scrap them. 

Consultation's open on the proposal which would see the councils abolished and replaced with boards made up of local Mayors. 

Boards would be required to put plans in place around re-organising services and infrastructure, which will be checked over and ticked off for financial sustainability. 

Chris Bishop told Mike Hosking there's enormous levels of complexity which people don't understand. 

He says in Wellington for example, the regional council runs the buses, but the city councils decide the road closures and where the bus stops are. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The wrecking bulls coming to a council and their your
regional councils are going there to be replaced by the
Combined Territories Board. Ctb's mayors will run them. These boards
will produce a regional organization plan. Chris Bishops in charge
of it all. Good morning, Good morning. The detail at
council level of what you announced yesterday, how much were
they aware of previously?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
They're aware that we were looking at structural reform and
looking at changes in light of resource management.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I mean, it was a big call for us because resource.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Management is massive, right, It's going to strip out layers
and layers of duplication, standardized processes, and strip costs out
of the system. So we sort of had a decision
to make do we just kind of do that and
go job done, or do we go actually, you know what,
if we're going to do all this stuff anyway, do
we actually do the full monty and say, you know what,
let's deal with local government at the same time and.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
In the end, you know, go big or go home. Right,
So there we decided to do the whole lot.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, so interesting area because no one cares do they.
I mean, we saw in the election, no one turns
up to vote, no gives the monkeys, and yet the
reform is massive. So how do you explain that?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, I think no one cares, partly because they can't
understand it. Right, So you vote for your regional counselor,
then they elect a chair. I mean, how many people
out there listening could actually name their regional council chair?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Sure who don't live an Auckland.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I don't think anyone, not that many people be evil
name a regional counselor, and.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Then of course you've got all the confusion. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
So in Wellington where I'm from, for example, the regional
council runs the buses, but the Wellington City Council basically
works out where you can actually put a bus stop,
for example, and they do all the road closures and
things like that. So there's enormous levels of complexity and
complication that people just don't understand, and people say, well,
why am I voting for all these people don't understand
who most of them are. I don't know who they are,

(01:45):
and so there's enormous duplication in the system. So I
think that partly explains why voter turn out rates are
so low.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Okay, So what about the regionality an Auckland will have
dealt with us, I guess more than the rest of
the country. Once you get a big area, there are
specific stories within the area that may not get dealt
to because you're suddenly in a big area. Is that
fair or not?

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I think there's a legitimate argument for that.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
In Auckland solves that problem or attempted to solve it
through the local boards and that that kind of representation
at a at a local level relevant to people people's interests.
So local parks and things like that. You know that
that's important. You know that there is it is important
that people have an outlet the things they're frustrated about,
you know, at a very local level. You know, things

(02:26):
that are things can be dealt with at a at
a minor way, so to speak. But you know those
big issues around you know, how are we managing the
catchments and the rivers in our particular area, how we
doing public transport, those big issues around land use planning
and resource management is going to introduce spatial planting so
we can look out over the next thirty fifty years

(02:47):
and look at our corridors that we want to protect
for future road and rail and the areas we don't
want to build on, for example, those kind of big things.
It doesn't make sense to have two different types of
local government structures doing that stuff. And so we're giving
regions in areas an opportunity to have a good look
at that.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Do you potentially run into the same problem you've run
into some places with water. So you're asking these people
to come up with a plan within a couple of years.
What are their plans? No good, you're going to stym in.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
We're going to set the tram lines for the plan.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
So it has to be sustainable and affordable, and it
has to have a relevant degree of local control. It
has to enable better services and more affordable services for
rate payers. So we're going to set the criteria and
we'll be the ones doing the assessing of what regions
come up with.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Why don't you just tell them and save us all
the time.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, we looked at that, To be honest, that's a
really good argument. We did have a look at that.
The issue with that is then you are into extremely
top down here is what is going to happen.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
You don't get a say you.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
What's wrong with that? I mean half the people there's
half the people there are dumpty doo. So, I mean
they don't have a clue what's going on, and that's
why we're in the state we're in.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, there's a legitimate argument for that, and we decided
that a bit like the Three Waters. We'll say to people, listen,
you come up with the model. You've got clear criteria
to meet, and if you don't do it, we'll do
it for you. But at least in the interim you
can come up with it and we'll give you a
y RNA.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Does it stick post your government? Do you think?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Well?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Lock, that's over to the Labor Party obviously, But I
would say publicly, there's not that many defenders of the
status quo, right, I mean, it's a bit like nineteen
eighty nine. I mean, last time we did local government
reform was eighty nine, and people as a massive hue
and cry, people with bananas about it for quite a
long time, and then you know, have we ever repealed

(04:38):
them and gone backwards? No? So I just think most
New Zealanders listening, most fair minded people know we don't
have the scale required to really get things done locally.
They know there's too much duplication. They know that local
government's lost its social license. So I think we've just
got to get on with it, frankly, and I'm looking.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Forward having that abut about it, all right, appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Chris Buship.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
By the way, if you missed the Deloitte report yesterday
on Wellington City Council, just to remind you just how
hopeless this whole thing is. They found they've just got
the extra three hundred and thirty people they don't need
and they could save seventy nine million bucks.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
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Speaker 1 (05:15):
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