Barry Soper: Newstalk ZB Senior Political Correspondent on his new book 'One Last Question, Prime Minister'

Barry Soper is a staple of New Zealand’s political landscape. 

After joining the Parliamentary Press Gallery in 1980, he’s spent nearly five decades as a political reporter, questioning the country’s leaders. 

And now he’s diving into the details, revealing some of the untold stories of the twelve Prime Ministers that have spanned his career in ‘One Last Question, Prime Minister’.  

While some things have changed throughout Soper’s time, something that hasn’t is politicians’ perception of the Press Gallery. 

“Being in the Press Gallery, you’re always labelled ... every time the Press Gallery does a story, they’re labelled as hunting in a pack, and going off on tangents that are inexplicable,” he told Mike Hosking. 

“I think the only thing that’s really changed from the time I was in the Press Gallery, started there in 1980, to today is the age of the journalists that are there.”  

In Soper’s time, the demographic skewed older and more male – the gallery seen as a ‘creme de la creme’ job that political reports aspired to. 

“Now it’s transposed, there are more women than men and they’re young, generally younger.”  

But although the journalists reporting the stories change, the stories they report can echo the past. 

“There are so many stories around Parliament, as you can imagine, all politicians talk, and the latest is a good example of when you get onto a good story,” Soper explained. 

“I’ve been involved in so many stories when it relates to people being rolled in politics,” he told Hosking – Bill English springing to mind. 

“I’d done the numbers and knew his time was up,” Soper said, which was something he’d revealed in an interview with one of Hosking's processors, Paul Holmes.  

“Holmes said to me at the end of the interview, he said, “Baz, is this man a dead man walking?” and I said, “Holmesy, more like a twitching corpse.””  

English of course, was not well pleased with Soper’s analysis, calling him up after the interview to tell him he had the numbers. 

“And I said, “No you haven’t Bill, you’ll see. See you by lunchtime.” And of course he was gone.”  

Twelve Prime Ministers have come and gone over the course of his career so far, but Soper has his top six, and funnily enough, Bill English doesn’t make the cut.  

From Muldoon to Luxon, Soper delves into the details of New Zealand’s Prime Ministers in ‘One Last Question, Prime Minister’, releasing on the 28th of April. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
John Key is right. If you like politics, you will
love this book. The book is Barry Soaper is One
Last Question Prime Minister from Muldoon to Luxe in it
and covers each of the prime ministers that Soap has
been around to cover. There are the Big Six as
he calls them, and the rest, making twelve in total,
which makes it of course quite the career. And Barry
Soap as well.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's good to see you, good morning mate.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's a I don't want to, I can't help it,
but it will end up going down memory lane. But
because I find myself and there's a bit here in
the book where you say, without the debty, this Helen Clark,
without the dedicated and experienced journalists, And in that singular line,
is that part of the problem of modern political coverage?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Do you know? I knew you'd ask that book. Isn't
that funny? Well, that's Helen Clark's perception. But well, being
in the press gallery, you're always labeled no. And you've
been doing it for years. So every time the press
gallery does a story, they're labeled as hunting in a
pack and going off on tangents that are inexplicable. I

(01:02):
think the only thing that's really changed from the time
that I was in the Press Gallery started there in
nineteen eighty to today is the age of the journalists
that are there. When I entered, they.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Were about forty plus, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
And there were I think two or three women in
the gallery. Then well, now it's transposed. There are more
women than men, and they're young, generally younger. And the
gallery when I went and was seen as sort of
a krem de la creme type job that you aspired
to get into the gallery and you were, you know,

(01:38):
relatively senior when you got there. So today it's not
the same. But you know, I feel sorry for them
in some ways when I listen to you getting stuck
into them that you know, there's so many stories around
Parliament as you can well imagine, all politicians talk, and

(02:03):
the Latest is a good example of when you get
on to a story and you know, I've been involved
in so many stories when it relates to people being
rolled in politics, and Bill English was one that springs
to mind because oh, Paul Holmes was doing the job
you were doing, and I'd done the numbers and knew

(02:23):
that his time was up and done the numbers. When
I say I went through the whole Caukers and knew
how many he had. Problem with leadership is that anybody
that's questioned by the leaders says yes, of course I'll
support you, because they know that down the road they
may not get the promotion they want. Now, Holmes said
to me at the end of the interview, he said,

(02:46):
bes is this man a dead man walking? And I said,
homes heemed more like a twitching corpse. More than five
minutes a phone went and the invective flowed from Bill
English and Bilt it I've got the numbers, you'll see
I said, no, you haven't, Bill, You'll see see you
by lunchtime. And of course he was gone.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Rest is history, and he's not one of you big six.
Funnily enough, is he.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think Bill English, you know, he was a fantastic deputy.
I think a very good finance minister as well. But
he's the sort of person here I say it, a
humble Southlander Mike that didn't really put his hand up
too much and was a very loyal supporter for John Key.

(03:31):
And it was obvious when John Key went surprisingly that
Bill English would step up to the plate. Don't forget
in that twenty seventeen election he got I think seven
percent more than what Labor got. And yet our dear
old friend Winston came in and decided it was time
for a change in government and anointed just as the leader.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
You predate me, Which is not to age you. It's
simply to say I started only dealt with Longee a
little bit. Yeah, your tiny amount. So I started in
eighty two. He was arounding eighty four through you know,
rest Acessory, Muldoon, Longie, those guys and dealing with them
in those days. How different was it for people like
you in terms of formality, access, etc. Versus how you

(04:16):
would deal with Hepkin slash Luxem today.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's more informal today. There's no doubt about that. Longing
and Muldoon were certainly accessible in terms of me anyway
as the political editor, and they generally will talk to
you know, somebody that's fairy senior in the gallery. And
I had very good access to them. And I'll tell
you one story, Mike, that David long he said, when you,

(04:41):
I think went to work for Radio New Zealand, he said, oh,
that man Hosking. The only thing that will change is
we won't hear the ads, So that was his comment.
I know whether it was good.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Or bad, I could never tell. Was the top six
that you talk about and you do it obviously? The
only one I would disagree with is a dourn And
I assume you put a den in there because of
the circumstance around it, because to be the top six
in my book, you got to have won multiple terms. Yeah,
and she didn't.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
No, I'm talking about that dynamic sure of being the
prime minister. I mean, and I remember, I know how
you felt when she was appointed prime minister. I liked
the idea of a young liberal woman in the job.
I really liked it. And for the first couple of
months I actually rated her. I liked her. I thought

(05:34):
she was good. She was a good communicator. But that
all started falling apart, and it did it, dare I
say it around the time of the mosque shooting in Christchurch.
And don't forget she wore a heat job to when
she embraced the Muslim community down there, And no doubt

(05:56):
that was good for them, because that's what they do.
But it's synonymous with women being inferior to men. And
I'd wrote a column reminding the Prime Minister of that
and fortunately the memorials she didn't wear the he job,
which I think was good. But she was a person
that learned on the job but didn't learn very well.

(06:19):
And she said she suffered from imposter syndrome, and I
think might because she was Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Exactly, you rank Clark number one, and good on you
for doing the rankings. And I want to agree with you,
but but no, but only because I love Key so much,
who is number two? And I love Key, and but
I respect Helen And even though I probably never would
have voted for actually I probably did vote for it

(06:47):
to be there. But there's something about her her intellectual capacity.
Say whatever you want about you know, being left leaning,
in you in and all that, but her intellectual capacity
and her electoral success you can't argue with.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
You can't and you can't argue with her ability to lead.
She had lead with an iron fist. You might say
she sacked virtually half a cabinet in the first term
and brought an under them back. David Samuel's Ruth Tyson.
I mean, there are so many that she fired because

(07:20):
they went up to her standard. And don't forget this
is a woman that used to be called when she
was in opposition miss three percent. She could never get
herself above that threshold, which was terribly low. So she
was waited on by Annette King and Michael Cullen and
a couple of others. Mike Moore went in to see

(07:42):
her and said, Helen, your time's up. You know.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
She stared them down.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
She told them to plug her off, basically, and they did.
And what did she do with them? She promoted them
into the front bench of her cabinet. She exactly, I think,
you know. She to me he epitomized what I see
as a solid, good prime minister. And don't forget she
had a fourteen year apprenticeship in parliament. You got the job.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
The other thing you point out, which is quite right,
actually the other what you got from Clark at that
particular point in time you went to a king GoF color,
et cetera. You can actually run the country if you've
got a handful of really competent operators. You don't need
your cabinet of twenty eight and all the other nonsense,
so you can do. The other thing you point out,
which I think is relevant, is between Clark and Key,

(08:31):
they were the golden days, weren't.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
They They were.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
I mean we were lucky and we didn't perhaps realize
how lucky we were until it no longer existed.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's right. And remember when John Key came in, he
was lucky because he had the China Free Trade Agreement
and that was a great boon for New Zealand. But
he also had the financial Asian financial crisis to deal with,
or the global financial crisis, sorry, and that was big.
You know, it was a big thing to deal with.
But fortunately we had a good trade deal backing his

(09:03):
Prime ministership. And then you know, with Clark, it was
just obvious that there was had to be a change
running against Jimmy Shipley. I mean, she was a shoeing.
So you know that the way politics goes to me
over the years has been fascinating and I've enjoyed the
personalities probably more than the policies, because you know, the

(09:26):
personalities grow on me. And I thought when I started
in politics, I thought I'll be there a couple of years,
like you do when you're young, say yeah, that'll be it,
and it just grows on you. It's interesting. And the
travel I liked a lot, and so I was traveling
for forty years around the world with prime ministers. So

(09:47):
it's not a bad job.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
It's not bad. What about the booze? Has the booze
not for you? But has the mooze changed the culture?
You know if you go back to Muldoon, the drinking,
the after hours, the skullduggery, has that changed dramatically?

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Dramatic? Yeah, And it was incredible. When I started in Parliament,
the smoking was one thing and you know you'd be
sitting in the gallery having a fag, can you believe it?
And Helen Clark loath villain, she was so she hated it,
but she had to go to the smoker.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
You will have experienced it. She had people come in
before an interview to clear the room of do you
remember that, is there anyone smoking? Is there anyone close
to being smoking? Helen will not enter the room until
the room is clear of That's.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right, and she had it cleared out when she became
Prime min As to that, Jonathan Hunt, being the Landlord
of Parliament, had to banish anybody if they wanted a cigarette. Well,
I've got to say the old mate Winston Peter's got
around that a bit. Yeah, but he was seen to
be heading from Bellamy's Bar on the third floor of

(10:50):
the Beehive to have a fag outside every now and then,
as we're a number of others. The conviviality wasn't quite
the same exactly, but the booze is different now, there's
not nearly.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
There's a culture's difference. See one of the things I
think about these days barrier but is And I don't
want to sound old with it, but when you read
the book and you tell the stories, I wonder if
you didn't work through the best of times, like if
I was starting at sixteen today in the press gallery
or the media or the whatever, it's never going to

(11:23):
be quite what it was or as good Or Am
I just an old fart?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
No, you're not, because I think the main thing here
is technology. And I remember, you know, traveling overseas and
having to dismantle phones to put in what we called
a mutter box with little pinchers to get audio back
to New Zealand. It was what we had to go
to and of course we were on that long trip

(11:46):
to Africa with David Longi. Cell Phones weren't invented then,
so they wouldn't hear from us all day so you'd
follow your stories late at night and be full of
the bulletins of the morning, so you know it's And
I remember standing on the west lawn of the White
House mic with a brick phone. And I don't know
whether I was talking to you and somebody else, but

(12:07):
thinking to myself as I was standing there, I'm talking
to New Zealand. I can't believe that's no wires, no
crocodile clips here, I am talking to New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, good stuff. It's an excellent book. Well done, Thank
you very much, glad you write it in good luck
with it. One last question, Prime Minister Arry Sober For
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