Labour is labelling the Government’s overhaul of council voting rights a distraction.
A Bill amendment will strip voting rights from unelected members —including iwi and youth representatives— on council committees.
It comes after the Far North District Council moved to expand its Māori liaison committee.
Labour's Ginny Andersen told Heather du Plessis-Allan the issue is not a priority for New Zealanders.
She says people are far more worried about paying their bills and being able to cope everyday.
National’s Mark Mitchell disagrees, saying that stance shows how out of touch Labour really is.
He told du Plessis-Allan that most Kiwis are pretty proud of our democracy, and he doesn’t think they want unelected people going onto committees and making decisions.
Mitchell says it’s always prudent to have unelected people with special skillsets and backgrounds advising, but not voting, and he thinks most Kiwis would agree.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Politics Wednesday, Mark Mitchell, Ginny andersonello you.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Two warning, Heather, Jenny.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, Mark, So how did your budget drinks go?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Mitch?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Get out of.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hand or they were good? They were good? Yeah? Eyone
was Look, there's been a lot of hard work going
to that budget, and so it's nice to get together
with the staffs and the officials and recognize your hard work.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So it was I regretted coming to your budget drinks.
Can I tell you this? I haven't even told you
this in person, and now I'm telling you this on air.
So what happened, Jenny. What happened was I did a
circuit of budget drinks. So I went to the act
Party's budget drinks and they were actually very classy. They
had a gin bar and quite a large room and
it was quite a normal temperature. And then I went
up to Mark Mitchell's drinks and it was a small
(00:45):
room because I've forgotten how low the ceilings are in
the Beehive, and so they.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Said, sounding like a joke.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And then I went to the second one that was
like a good and I.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Was immediately disappointed because it was hot hot in there,
really hot, very hot, and.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
There was no giner was there.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
No, it was like a student party vibe because when
I arrived, they were like, oh yeah, let me get
you drink here, or we've only got tequila left.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
We did have a tequila bargo and that's true.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
The problem with the officer is that they have tiny
little windows. Yeah, and you can open, but there's no
you get no ear flows. So yes, it got very hot,
but in some ways it was good because everyone sort
of started to leave.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, because it was basically it was like a it
was clothes off or leave, and they made the right decision.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Did you have an ere tequila involved?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Sorry?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Did you have drinks?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Do we have drinks? I think we had a few?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Wasn't It wasn't anything exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
We were pretty dismayed with the fact that we.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Were hoping that more in the cost of loving. We
were really hoping people would get some relief, and it
doesn't seem like there was there was anything in the air.
And that was, I guess a big disappointment for a
lot of New Zealanders who were out for a bout.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm sure you I'm sure you're all sitting around looking dismayed, thinking, man,
this is a really good budget. We've got no policy to.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Fine and that there was nothing in their budget.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, what are you asking?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Man's already answered your question.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You go because I thought, well it's June, so I
thought maybe you guys have done something.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I know that everyone is very excited.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And we're doing some great work. It's been over over
calls and we've been doing work. So yeah, we're getting
ready to go, and we're going line by line to
make sure we can make sure and when we come,
I'm sure Mark will be really excited.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Somebody texting earlier Ginny and they said, can you please
ask Jenny what her policy is on voting rights for
unelected members of councils?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I don't think we're in strong support of that. I
don't think it's a number one issue for Kiwis right now.
I've never been stopped in the street and asked to
get rid of someone from a council because they're when elected.
People are far more worried about paying their bills and
having enough money to cope every day. So yeah, I
don't think I think it's a distraction, it's another top isshoe.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I think that shows how out of touch these guys
really are because actually, most Kiwis are pretty proud of
our democracy. It's one of the strongest and most open
in the world. And I don't think they want unelected
people going on to committees and making decisions. So I
think it's very It's always prudent to have unelected people
with special skill sets and backgrounds advising but not voting.
(03:33):
I think most Kewis would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I've got an easy one. I do agree with. Actually, Ginny,
I have got an easy one for you. What is
your policy on nuclear free New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We think it's a strong part of being Kiwis and
who we are. We would like to stand strongly beside that.
And it was a bit weird that Chris Pinks that
went out on a limb and tried to step backwards
from that.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why why why do we have to have a rule
against nuclear propulsion on ships? What do you think is
going to happen?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Well, you could also ask the Prime Minister why he
came out and said that Chris pink got it wrong.
Things to be on the same.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Page was nutty.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We believe nuclear free.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Is not for negotiation. I was worrying that our defense
Minister doesn't understand it. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Just to turn this on you, I don't think this
is something that people care about. They're trying to pay
the bills.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Do well. I think once you start, once.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
She start goes that way, now, doesn't I think once
once he start hunting that our free policy is up
for negotiation, I think you, craigt.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It needs and that is exactly what was done. Pink
was doing that. He was trying to open it up.
And I don't understand why we are so weird about this,
Like forty years ago he.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Didn't have enough and so but but both both he
and the Prime Minister have been very clear that we're
not revisiting our nuclear free status. Chris Pink is an
outstanding new defense minister. He's got a genuine history and
background and defense himself. I spoke to him last night.
The trip up to the Single our dialogue was quite simple,
outstanding with the bipartisan meetings of the AD and he's
(05:08):
advancing our interests and that's the right thing to do
and he's doing the outstanding job of it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Ginny, do you see the speech that Andrew Little's just
given in Wellington?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
No, I did not, I mean need.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So he's given a speech on the future of local
government for Wellington City, calling for amalgamation. He says if
a referendum were held today, he would vote for amalgamation.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Would you, I think in some real bonds?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Says yeah, I think it's an economy of scale if
it's saving great players money to come together.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Unsupport of that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I mean this feels like a done deal in Wellington,
doesn't it move.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
If you've got the Mea of Wellington coming out and
making a statement like that. The good thing about it
is that, look, I've been dealing with the me as
a few bit over the last few days and in
all of them embracing this, all of them see the
need for re organization and being more efficient as a country.
We have way too much, you know, government for a
couple of five and a half billion people. When you
(05:59):
look at the amount of governments governance we have, whether
at central, regional or district, they're really embracing the opportunity
to be able to reorganize yourself.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I can't quite why a national scrap the plan then
for the three and tea for water that would have
been well tracking along by now we would have.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Had it underway.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean to do the answer to that, it's because
you were doing all the co governance. You blew it up.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And you watch that embrace the co governance again straight away.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You still a bunch out there who can't play for
your pipes. And it's going to be big bells for it,
absolutely is.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And we can talk about the financial structure and stuff
like that, but but you guys had a half decent
idea that you blew up. Now, Ginny, you're getting some
running on the emails. I see one News was leading
with this last night. This is the email through from
Fonterra to Matt Burgess and the yeah yeah, but the misticlinkers.
Can you connect it to Chris Luxen.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well if he's a senior political advisor.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
The answer is yes. The guy's employed there to advise
the PM. So it's really worrying that Official Information Act,
which is therefore democracy and people's ability to see what
politicians are doing. They're hiding from that by using your
own gmails. This isn't the first minister we've had Eric
Ristine for using your gmails heaps as well. It seems
to be a running thing with.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The it's not it's not okay. It doesn't make it okay.
But everybody does it. You guys will be aware of that.
But the thing about it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Is the does do it?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's not okay? Loo, I don't accept that. No, you don't.
You don't have ministers with a warrant and minister you're
a warrant just using your Gmail.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's not a great from.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Mark.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Let's find out for that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you use your Gmail?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Mant No, I don't have a Gmail account.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
He's still running hot.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
That one thing. But one thing I'd say, exactly one
thing I'd say, Ginny, is you from the party that
came in the government last time saying you'd be the
most transparent government Usility ever seen, and you turned out
to be the worst, most secretive government we've ever had
sub terms of in terms of Matt Burgess. Look, you know,
(08:03):
Jenny can sit there and you know and wring her
hands and worry about it. The Prime ministers get his
very clear and Ministerial Services remind all officers in terms
of what obligations are under the i A. That was
the right thing to do. He's getting on in governing
the country and leading us through some pretty difficult times
at the moment doing a pretty damn good job we're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
If we're checking checking up on each other, are you
ripping off the accommodation allowance, Ginny?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well I think that one.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, oh you say that, Ginny, But then Andy Foster
lives in Wellington and he, apparently.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
That's a good call lived in Wellington, and Verdi Branton
commons whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
No, I don't get out. I've never got it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, what about you? But Markwood, you're being straight up
and down with this.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Then I get the accommodation allowance only because I live
in Auckland and I rent a flat in Wellington when
i'm when I'm staying, I.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Don't even want to know the details. But now I
have to do you own the flatt and is it
mortgage free? La Louise Upston, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
For other buddies, No, No, I have a one bedroom
and I don't known it. I just I just rent it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Would you do, Ginny if you were out of town
or would you go and buy yourself like Mitchell? Would
you get flatties?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (09:13):
The problem I have is that if it's the cost
of the rent or the cost of the payment.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think that's okay.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
But I think that the bit that people struggle with
is when you're getting a thousand and you own it already,
so you're just putting that in the bank. I think
that's kind of if you're reimbursing what you paid, okay,
but not if you're personally profiting from it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think people struggle with that part.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, I just I just think it's it's a common
sense thing that Kywis have got a good radar for that,
and and it's a genuine obviously for people that are
living away from home and having to live in the
and Wellington for their job. And I think that's fure enough.
But play play it straight, play it with the rules.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Okay, guys, listen, it's been good to talk to the
pair of you. Thank you very much. Make mature. Looking
forward to the drinks and you actually do you know what,
Jenny looking forward to drinks in your office next budget.
You can invite me around For more from the Mic
Hosking Bread First, listen live to News Talks at b
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Politics Wednesday, Mark Mitchell, Ginny andersonello you.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Two warning, Heather, Jenny.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, Mark, So how did your budget drinks go?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Mitch?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Get out of.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hand or they were good? They were good? Yeah? Eyone
was Look, there's been a lot of hard work going
to that budget, and so it's nice to get together
with the staffs and the officials and recognize your hard work.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
So it was I regretted coming to your budget drinks.
Can I tell you this? I haven't even told you
this in person, and now I'm telling you this on air.
So what happened, Jenny. What happened was I did a
circuit of budget drinks. So I went to the act
Party's budget drinks and they were actually very classy. They
had a gin bar and quite a large room and
it was quite a normal temperature. And then I went
up to Mark Mitchell's drinks and it was a small
(00:45):
room because I've forgotten how low the ceilings are in
the Beehive, and so they.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Said, sounding like a joke.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And then I went to the second one that was
like a good and I.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Was immediately disappointed because it was hot hot in there,
really hot, very hot, and.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
There was no giner was there.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
No, it was like a student party vibe because when
I arrived, they were like, oh yeah, let me get
you drink here, or we've only got tequila left.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
We did have a tequila bargo and that's true.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
The problem with the officer is that they have tiny
little windows. Yeah, and you can open, but there's no
you get no ear flows. So yes, it got very hot,
but in some ways it was good because everyone sort
of started to leave.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, because it was basically it was like a it
was clothes off or leave, and they made the right decision.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Did you have an ere tequila involved?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Sorry?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Did you have drinks?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Do we have drinks? I think we had a few?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Wasn't It wasn't anything exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
We were pretty dismayed with the fact that we.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Were hoping that more in the cost of loving. We
were really hoping people would get some relief, and it
doesn't seem like there was there was anything in the air.
And that was, I guess a big disappointment for a
lot of New Zealanders who were out for a bout.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm sure you I'm sure you're all sitting around looking dismayed, thinking, man,
this is a really good budget. We've got no policy to.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Fine and that there was nothing in their budget.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, what are you asking?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Man's already answered your question.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You go because I thought, well it's June, so I
thought maybe you guys have done something.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I know that everyone is very excited.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And we're doing some great work. It's been over over
calls and we've been doing work. So yeah, we're getting
ready to go, and we're going line by line to
make sure we can make sure and when we come,
I'm sure Mark will be really excited.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Somebody texting earlier Ginny and they said, can you please
ask Jenny what her policy is on voting rights for
unelected members of councils?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I don't think we're in strong support of that. I
don't think it's a number one issue for Kiwis right now.
I've never been stopped in the street and asked to
get rid of someone from a council because they're when elected.
People are far more worried about paying their bills and
having enough money to cope every day. So yeah, I
don't think I think it's a distraction, it's another top isshoe.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I think that shows how out of touch these guys
really are because actually, most Kiwis are pretty proud of
our democracy. It's one of the strongest and most open
in the world. And I don't think they want unelected
people going on to committees and making decisions. So I
think it's very It's always prudent to have unelected people
with special skill sets and backgrounds advising but not voting.
(03:33):
I think most Kewis would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I've got an easy one. I do agree with. Actually, Ginny,
I have got an easy one for you. What is
your policy on nuclear free New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
We think it's a strong part of being Kiwis and
who we are. We would like to stand strongly beside that.
And it was a bit weird that Chris Pinks that
went out on a limb and tried to step backwards
from that.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why why why do we have to have a rule
against nuclear propulsion on ships? What do you think is
going to happen?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Well, you could also ask the Prime Minister why he
came out and said that Chris pink got it wrong.
Things to be on the same.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Page was nutty.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
We believe nuclear free.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Is not for negotiation. I was worrying that our defense
Minister doesn't understand it. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Just to turn this on you, I don't think this
is something that people care about. They're trying to pay
the bills.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Do well. I think once you start, once.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
She start goes that way, now, doesn't I think once
once he start hunting that our free policy is up
for negotiation, I think you, craigt.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It needs and that is exactly what was done. Pink
was doing that. He was trying to open it up.
And I don't understand why we are so weird about this,
Like forty years ago he.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Didn't have enough and so but but both both he
and the Prime Minister have been very clear that we're
not revisiting our nuclear free status. Chris Pink is an
outstanding new defense minister. He's got a genuine history and
background and defense himself. I spoke to him last night.
The trip up to the Single our dialogue was quite simple,
outstanding with the bipartisan meetings of the AD and he's
(05:08):
advancing our interests and that's the right thing to do
and he's doing the outstanding job of it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Ginny, do you see the speech that Andrew Little's just
given in Wellington?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
No, I did not, I mean need.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So he's given a speech on the future of local
government for Wellington City, calling for amalgamation. He says if
a referendum were held today, he would vote for amalgamation.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Would you, I think in some real bonds?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Says yeah, I think it's an economy of scale if
it's saving great players money to come together.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Unsupport of that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I mean this feels like a done deal in Wellington,
doesn't it move.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
If you've got the Mea of Wellington coming out and
making a statement like that. The good thing about it
is that, look, I've been dealing with the me as
a few bit over the last few days and in
all of them embracing this, all of them see the
need for re organization and being more efficient as a country.
We have way too much, you know, government for a
couple of five and a half billion people. When you
(05:59):
look at the amount of governments governance we have, whether
at central, regional or district, they're really embracing the opportunity
to be able to reorganize yourself.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I can't quite why a national scrap the plan then
for the three and tea for water that would have
been well tracking along by now we would have.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Had it underway.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean to do the answer to that, it's because
you were doing all the co governance. You blew it up.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And you watch that embrace the co governance again straight away.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You still a bunch out there who can't play for
your pipes. And it's going to be big bells for it,
absolutely is.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And we can talk about the financial structure and stuff
like that, but but you guys had a half decent
idea that you blew up. Now, Ginny, you're getting some
running on the emails. I see one News was leading
with this last night. This is the email through from
Fonterra to Matt Burgess and the yeah yeah, but the misticlinkers.
Can you connect it to Chris Luxen.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well if he's a senior political advisor.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
The answer is yes. The guy's employed there to advise
the PM. So it's really worrying that Official Information Act,
which is therefore democracy and people's ability to see what
politicians are doing. They're hiding from that by using your
own gmails. This isn't the first minister we've had Eric
Ristine for using your gmails heaps as well. It seems
to be a running thing with.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
The it's not it's not okay. It doesn't make it okay.
But everybody does it. You guys will be aware of that.
But the thing about it.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Is the does do it?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's not okay? Loo, I don't accept that. No, you don't.
You don't have ministers with a warrant and minister you're
a warrant just using your Gmail.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's not a great from.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Mark.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Let's find out for that.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you use your Gmail?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Mant No, I don't have a Gmail account.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
He's still running hot.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
That one thing. But one thing I'd say, exactly one
thing I'd say, Ginny, is you from the party that
came in the government last time saying you'd be the
most transparent government Usility ever seen, and you turned out
to be the worst, most secretive government we've ever had
sub terms of in terms of Matt Burgess. Look, you know,
(08:03):
Jenny can sit there and you know and wring her
hands and worry about it. The Prime ministers get his
very clear and Ministerial Services remind all officers in terms
of what obligations are under the i A. That was
the right thing to do. He's getting on in governing
the country and leading us through some pretty difficult times
at the moment doing a pretty damn good job we're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
If we're checking checking up on each other, are you
ripping off the accommodation allowance, Ginny?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well I think that one.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, oh you say that, Ginny, But then Andy Foster
lives in Wellington and he, apparently.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
That's a good call lived in Wellington, and Verdi Branton
commons whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
No, I don't get out. I've never got it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, what about you? But Markwood, you're being straight up
and down with this.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Then I get the accommodation allowance only because I live
in Auckland and I rent a flat in Wellington when
i'm when I'm staying, I.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Don't even want to know the details. But now I
have to do you own the flatt and is it
mortgage free? La Louise Upston, No, I don't.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
For other buddies, No, No, I have a one bedroom
and I don't known it. I just I just rent it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Would you do, Ginny if you were out of town
or would you go and buy yourself like Mitchell? Would
you get flatties?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (09:13):
The problem I have is that if it's the cost
of the rent or the cost of the payment.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I think that's okay.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
But I think that the bit that people struggle with
is when you're getting a thousand and you own it already,
so you're just putting that in the bank. I think
that's kind of if you're reimbursing what you paid, okay,
but not if you're personally profiting from it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think people struggle with that part.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, I just I just think it's it's a common
sense thing that Kywis have got a good radar for that,
and and it's a genuine obviously for people that are
living away from home and having to live in the
and Wellington for their job. And I think that's fure enough.
But play play it straight, play it with the rules.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Okay, guys, listen, it's been good to talk to the
pair of you. Thank you very much. Make mature. Looking
forward to the drinks and you actually do you know what,
Jenny looking forward to drinks in your office next budget.
You can invite me around For more from the Mic
Hosking Bread First, listen live to News Talks at b
from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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