June 18, 2024 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Tim Wilson from Maxim Institute and Ali Jones from Red PR joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government has softened their hard-line ban on transgender athletes in community sport to be more inclusive - do we agree with this move?
Over 80 Kiwi principals are spending the week at a taxpayer-funded professional development course in Fiji. Is this good value for money - or are we just funding an overpriced holiday for them?
Kiwi women are struggling under an ongoing HRT shortage, according to new data. Pharmac expects this to continue on until 2025 - is this acceptable?
Nicola Willis hopes to introduce financial incentives for public sector chief executives - will this work?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty exceptional marketing
for every property.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm hardled with me this evening. We've got Allie Jones
of red PR and Tim Wilson of the Maximu Institute.
How are you two get out of very good? Thank you, Tim?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Ali.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
What do you make of the government dropping the threat
to defund the community sports if they include transgender women?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Wow? Isn't this a complex issue? It's very complex complex.
I think what's important is inclusion, and I know that
that's come from virtually every comment I've heard and read
on this today, and that means including everyone who wants
to take part. But there's got to be some common sense.
As while I was reading what raylen Castle, the head
of Sport New Zealand, was saying, and she was saying
(00:41):
that one size fits all approach across every code is
not appropriate. But she was pleased to see that particular
codes were sort of adjusting their positions depending on what
the code was. And I think that's really important. That's
common sense. We want inclusion, but we need safety and fairness.
You know, I can't emphasize how important it is. I
(01:03):
think to learn from diversity and being with different people,
but you've got to be in a safe and fair
environment doing that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, do you feel like we've got that balance about
right at the moment? Tim? Where you've got, for example,
boxing which has an open category, so you're not going
to have transgender women boxing, you don't, you know, just women.
You've got NRL, which is which allows everybody to play together,
but after thirteen you separate them out. Is Is that
about right?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah? That that seems to be a good model, like
in a sense. And I've got to say, I'm not
sure that we value inclusion in our country as much
as fairness. I think that we're actually you know, say
we compare ourselves to America, where they value freedom. I
think in New Zealand we really do value fairness. Is
this a fair competition? And look even in America, for example,
(01:54):
Leah Thomas band by World Aquatics as as a transgender swimmer,
So it's not it's not whole any weight there. So
I think I think we actually, Tim, Tim, that is.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Slightly different, right, because that's at the elite level and
what we're doing, I mean, I think we're all kind
of accepted that the rules are that at the elite level,
transgender women do not compete against women, But at the
community level was a bit different, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So you're saying that winning doesn't matter at the community level.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh my gosh, are you that competitive?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
But I was no.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But seriously, I was at a soccer tournament on Sunday
and my son Roman's team got through to the final
and they got there, okay by Roman, George Wilson scoring
the winning goal. But that's some other stories. You They
got there, they got there, and they lost and they
were crushed and I just saw and the cat It's like,
(02:44):
why do we play sport at a community level? I
got to say, we probably played a win, not necessarily
to include.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, okay, Tim, No, that's fair, that is fair. But
I would I would argue that you are going to
get very very few transgender athletes at a community level,
and the few that there are will probably balance out,
Like there was a transgender women in my indoor netball team.
Should probably be balancing out the dud that I roped
in from the office just to fill the numbers, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, yeah, maybe, but that's why I'd say, let's just
have an inclusion league where everyone agrees on the rules
and listen, I think we're tampering with the rules for
all the expectations.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, so you think make an open category for every
single one of these sports so that you can have
this kind of like this is your fun and games category.
Everybody's in there.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
If you want to do that, Yeah, yeah, yeah you can.
Then I could probably play. Tim.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Nobody's going to have you on their team. I mean
you know that, right, You know that there's no nobody
will ever balance out the young co that you bring
in and once for the Huddleton Wilson Ali Jones. Tim,
what do you make of the eighty principles on holiday
or I'm sorry, professional leadership development at the Hilton and Fiji?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Oh, I don't mind. I think principles run What do
they do there? Many of them run multimillion dollar enterprises
six k to go and do some PD. It's not
the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Come on, you don't think they're actually learning anything.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Do you? Well? They're doing what the provider has been
in the business eleven years. I think actually we do
have a bit of a you know, we have an
issue with leadership in our country. And principle as a
leaders they need to get better at it and there's
a fun for it. Guess is that what we're arguing
about the efficacy or the fact that the funds are
(04:22):
moral in some way.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
We're arguing about the rules. I think being too loose
ali restore some common sense. You tell me you don't
agree with Tim?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, thank you know. I don't agree with it, Tim, Honestly,
I do think that they need to be able to
go away and go get some professional development and so forth.
But you know, I think five grand for five nights
in a place without flights is just hugely expensive. I
don't have a problem with this kind of course for principles,
so work hard. I agree with Tim, they are absolutely
(04:51):
critical to schools and the leadership and schools. But I
think the costs are unreasonable. You know, was there a
more cost effective way to do this? Do they have
to be in a five star resort and feed your
stayed at the hills and it's bloody flesh? But I
mean they could have gone somewhere in Australia they.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Did all Yeah, did you go in the eighties or nineties?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh, we were there two years ago, three years ago.
It was fabulous. We must have had the refirmed version.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Were you in the adults only part?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Oh, madam, excuse me, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We're having a middle last conversation about overseas. There is
nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We had.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Problem with tims Alie. He can't afford anything because he
had five hundred children and that's his life forever. Just four,
just four, jeez tells one of them.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
One of them is an incredible athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Obviously gets those genes from his mother. Allie, tell me
about your hr T patches. Are you cutting them in
half a quarter?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
No, you're not allowed to cut them in half? Not
heard this? You mean to cut them diagonally. Now, I
will say that my GP pro med in Christ. You
send an email out last night. God bless them. How's
that for proactive communication with your patients? It says, because
you're on the patches, we're contacting you to tell you this,
And they ran through all the options. So I know
about the gel, I know about all the other stuff.
(06:16):
It still doesn't help me, though, because I am a lunatic.
Without them, not in an angry, crazy kind of a way.
I get terrible brain fog. So you know, women are
affected in different ways. What I don't get, Heather, is
my sisters in Australia. They have there in the Victoria government.
I looked at their website. They've got a list of
(06:36):
transdermal patches and they're the list is far greater than us.
They have no shortage. The dates that are communicated to
their people over there is that the shortage will be
over by the fifteenth to the twentieth of June. What
the hell is going on in New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, I mean, really, what is going on in New Zealand.
That's a very good question and somebody needs to ask
that question, somebody in power. Tim, do you want to
get involved in the wall own replacement therapy conversation?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Look, I think it sounds like another reason to migrate
to Australia, doesn't it. They can do gels, tablets and
sprays and the women are less crazy. Yeah, I'm not no, No,
the women are not less I would say that women
were probably more crazy in Australia. I like New Zealand women.
I think you're all awesome. But yeah, I think, well,
what what? What seems to be powering this a bit?
(07:25):
It's a supply issue. But I wonder in New Zealand
because it doubled over two years, so one point three
million and twenty twenty one to three million patches in
twenty twenty three. Is this a demographic thing? Is this
an aging population?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It could well be, That's.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
What it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, and also maybe if farm extra think at his
job like that wouldn't be the first time. Tim, do
you like the idea of performance pay for public sector bosses?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah? I think I do. I do because, as you
were saying in your editory, we want the public service
to perform as well as the private private sector, and
eighty eight percent of the largest standard and pause count,
you know firms, they have a performance based pay. The
question though, is what what what of the KPU? A
KPIs what are we shooting at? Because you want long
(08:09):
term viability? And another interesting step, the average shareholder returns
are higher from the lower paid CEOs than from the
higher paid CEO, so it's it is a bit of
a you know, you've got to sort it out. But
in the KPIs I think we'll get the viability.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Interesting, Ali, what are you right? What do you think?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well? What I'm worried about I agree with him with
the KPIs. But I do think too that the resulting
bonuses have got to be reasonable. I think I heard
you say in your editorial piece, Heather, that you know,
if you're earning seven hundred K, be up around one
hundred ks as a bonus. I don't think that's acceptable.
I think that, you know, performance pay bonuses are important.
I think they show that people are valued, you know,
(08:48):
and when you hear Chris Hipkins are saying things like,
you know, what's important is that our public service is
motivated by the spirit of community. I mean, honestly, that's
like something out of a Needed Blighten book. But I
really do think that you have to be very careful
about what people are receiving bonuses because it doesn't look
good and it's not great at the moment, so it's
(09:09):
got to be fair and reasonable.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Guys, thank you. It's great to talk to the pair
of you and Ali. Good luck with the HRT patches
and making them last. It's Tim Wilson and Ali Jones
a huddle this evening.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty exceptional marketing
for every property.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm hardled with me this evening. We've got Allie Jones
of red PR and Tim Wilson of the Maximu Institute.
How are you two get out of very good? Thank you, Tim?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Ali.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
What do you make of the government dropping the threat
to defund the community sports if they include transgender women?
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Wow? Isn't this a complex issue? It's very complex complex.
I think what's important is inclusion, and I know that
that's come from virtually every comment I've heard and read
on this today, and that means including everyone who wants
to take part. But there's got to be some common sense.
As while I was reading what raylen Castle, the head
of Sport New Zealand, was saying, and she was saying
(00:41):
that one size fits all approach across every code is
not appropriate. But she was pleased to see that particular
codes were sort of adjusting their positions depending on what
the code was. And I think that's really important. That's
common sense. We want inclusion, but we need safety and fairness.
You know, I can't emphasize how important it is. I
(01:03):
think to learn from diversity and being with different people,
but you've got to be in a safe and fair
environment doing that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, do you feel like we've got that balance about
right at the moment? Tim? Where you've got, for example,
boxing which has an open category, so you're not going
to have transgender women boxing, you don't, you know, just women.
You've got NRL, which is which allows everybody to play together,
but after thirteen you separate them out. Is Is that
about right?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah? That that seems to be a good model, like
in a sense. And I've got to say, I'm not
sure that we value inclusion in our country as much
as fairness. I think that we're actually you know, say
we compare ourselves to America, where they value freedom. I
think in New Zealand we really do value fairness. Is
this a fair competition? And look even in America, for example,
(01:54):
Leah Thomas band by World Aquatics as as a transgender swimmer,
So it's not it's not whole any weight there. So
I think I think we actually, Tim, Tim, that is.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Slightly different, right, because that's at the elite level and
what we're doing, I mean, I think we're all kind
of accepted that the rules are that at the elite level,
transgender women do not compete against women, But at the
community level was a bit different, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So you're saying that winning doesn't matter at the community level.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh my gosh, are you that competitive?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
But I was no.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But seriously, I was at a soccer tournament on Sunday
and my son Roman's team got through to the final
and they got there, okay by Roman, George Wilson scoring
the winning goal. But that's some other stories. You They
got there, they got there, and they lost and they
were crushed and I just saw and the cat It's like,
(02:44):
why do we play sport at a community level? I
got to say, we probably played a win, not necessarily
to include.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, okay, Tim, No, that's fair, that is fair. But
I would I would argue that you are going to
get very very few transgender athletes at a community level,
and the few that there are will probably balance out,
Like there was a transgender women in my indoor netball team.
Should probably be balancing out the dud that I roped
in from the office just to fill the numbers, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, yeah, maybe, but that's why I'd say, let's just
have an inclusion league where everyone agrees on the rules
and listen, I think we're tampering with the rules for
all the expectations.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Okay, so you think make an open category for every
single one of these sports so that you can have
this kind of like this is your fun and games category.
Everybody's in there.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
If you want to do that, Yeah, yeah, yeah you can.
Then I could probably play. Tim.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Nobody's going to have you on their team. I mean
you know that, right, You know that there's no nobody
will ever balance out the young co that you bring
in and once for the Huddleton Wilson Ali Jones. Tim,
what do you make of the eighty principles on holiday
or I'm sorry, professional leadership development at the Hilton and Fiji?
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Oh, I don't mind. I think principles run What do
they do there? Many of them run multimillion dollar enterprises
six k to go and do some PD. It's not
the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Come on, you don't think they're actually learning anything.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Do you? Well? They're doing what the provider has been
in the business eleven years. I think actually we do
have a bit of a you know, we have an
issue with leadership in our country. And principle as a
leaders they need to get better at it and there's
a fun for it. Guess is that what we're arguing
about the efficacy or the fact that the funds are
(04:22):
moral in some way.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
We're arguing about the rules. I think being too loose
ali restore some common sense. You tell me you don't
agree with Tim?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, thank you know. I don't agree with it, Tim, Honestly,
I do think that they need to be able to
go away and go get some professional development and so forth.
But you know, I think five grand for five nights
in a place without flights is just hugely expensive. I
don't have a problem with this kind of course for principles,
so work hard. I agree with Tim, they are absolutely
(04:51):
critical to schools and the leadership and schools. But I
think the costs are unreasonable. You know, was there a
more cost effective way to do this? Do they have
to be in a five star resort and feed your
stayed at the hills and it's bloody flesh? But I
mean they could have gone somewhere in Australia they.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Did all Yeah, did you go in the eighties or nineties?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh, we were there two years ago, three years ago.
It was fabulous. We must have had the refirmed version.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Were you in the adults only part?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Oh, madam, excuse me, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We're having a middle last conversation about overseas. There is
nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We had.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Problem with tims Alie. He can't afford anything because he
had five hundred children and that's his life forever. Just four,
just four, jeez tells one of them.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
One of them is an incredible athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Obviously gets those genes from his mother. Allie, tell me
about your hr T patches. Are you cutting them in
half a quarter?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
No, you're not allowed to cut them in half? Not
heard this? You mean to cut them diagonally. Now, I
will say that my GP pro med in Christ. You
send an email out last night. God bless them. How's
that for proactive communication with your patients? It says, because
you're on the patches, we're contacting you to tell you this,
And they ran through all the options. So I know
about the gel, I know about all the other stuff.
(06:16):
It still doesn't help me, though, because I am a lunatic.
Without them, not in an angry, crazy kind of a way.
I get terrible brain fog. So you know, women are
affected in different ways. What I don't get, Heather, is
my sisters in Australia. They have there in the Victoria government.
I looked at their website. They've got a list of
(06:36):
transdermal patches and they're the list is far greater than us.
They have no shortage. The dates that are communicated to
their people over there is that the shortage will be
over by the fifteenth to the twentieth of June. What
the hell is going on in New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, I mean, really, what is going on in New Zealand.
That's a very good question and somebody needs to ask
that question, somebody in power. Tim, do you want to
get involved in the wall own replacement therapy conversation?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Look, I think it sounds like another reason to migrate
to Australia, doesn't it. They can do gels, tablets and
sprays and the women are less crazy. Yeah, I'm not no, No,
the women are not less I would say that women
were probably more crazy in Australia. I like New Zealand women.
I think you're all awesome. But yeah, I think, well,
what what? What seems to be powering this a bit?
(07:25):
It's a supply issue. But I wonder in New Zealand
because it doubled over two years, so one point three
million and twenty twenty one to three million patches in
twenty twenty three. Is this a demographic thing? Is this
an aging population?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It could well be, That's.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
What it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, and also maybe if farm extra think at his
job like that wouldn't be the first time. Tim, do
you like the idea of performance pay for public sector bosses?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah? I think I do. I do because, as you
were saying in your editory, we want the public service
to perform as well as the private private sector, and
eighty eight percent of the largest standard and pause count,
you know firms, they have a performance based pay. The
question though, is what what what of the KPU? A
KPIs what are we shooting at? Because you want long
(08:09):
term viability? And another interesting step, the average shareholder returns
are higher from the lower paid CEOs than from the
higher paid CEO, so it's it is a bit of
a you know, you've got to sort it out. But
in the KPIs I think we'll get the viability.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Interesting, Ali, what are you right? What do you think?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Well? What I'm worried about I agree with him with
the KPIs. But I do think too that the resulting
bonuses have got to be reasonable. I think I heard
you say in your editorial piece, Heather, that you know,
if you're earning seven hundred K, be up around one
hundred ks as a bonus. I don't think that's acceptable.
I think that, you know, performance pay bonuses are important.
I think they show that people are valued, you know,
(08:48):
and when you hear Chris Hipkins are saying things like,
you know, what's important is that our public service is
motivated by the spirit of community. I mean, honestly, that's
like something out of a Needed Blighten book. But I
really do think that you have to be very careful
about what people are receiving bonuses because it doesn't look
good and it's not great at the moment, so it's
(09:09):
got to be fair and reasonable.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Guys, thank you. It's great to talk to the pair
of you and Ali. Good luck with the HRT patches
and making them last. It's Tim Wilson and Ali Jones
a huddle this evening.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.