June 26, 2024 • 9 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, journalist Clare de Lore and Ali Jones from Red PR joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Lauren Dickason has been sentenced for 18 years after admitting responsibility for killing her three daughters. Was this a fair outcome?
Justice Mininster Paul Goldsmith has unveiled some new sentencing reforms - meaning judges have less room to be lenient. Do we agree with this?
Labour leader Chris Hipkins has dismissed the second Covid inquiry as Winston Peters and David Seymour trying to court the conspiracy theorist vote. Was this out of line?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty exceptional marketing
for every property on the Huddle.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This even cleared to law and Allie Jones. Hell are
you too, Colot Claire? Eighteen years for Lauren Dickison? Was
she mad or was she bad?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Well? She was found able to stand trial for these
three letters. She wasn't fund insane, So I think you'd
have to say, if you're convicted to murder, there is
an element of bad there. But I think mostly this
is a very, very sad situation. There are absolutely no winds.
There's nothing except lost for everyone, including her. She has
(00:39):
lost everything and she knows that, presumably that she was
fittan trial, she is very aware of what she did
and the facts that we're reader are just appalling. So
for the whole family, for everyone involved. It is just
the most unbearable sort of thought. What happened to those
(00:59):
three girls and how any of them get on was
normalized after this? Heaven knows?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, hard thing to bear. What do you reckon, Ellie?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I agree with Claire.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I mean, we weren't in the court, we didn't hear
all the evidence, and she was found guilty. What I
found really unnerving and concerning last night with some of
the television coverage where you know, we were hearing from
mental health the experts who talked about the terrible place
that Lauren Dickerson must have been in. I think the
husband may have mentioned this as well. So, you know,
(01:29):
I do agree that that you know, a group of
her peers have found her guilty. But why bring in
the mental health issue there? And is this an entirely
fair sentence for a woman who may have been, you know,
a little unhinged or there being a degree of mental
health issues there? And look, I'd love to have a
(01:50):
long discussion on this too, and I would have loved
to have been in the court for all of it,
because I don't think there's an easy answer. But the
bottom line is she was found guilty by a group
of people who heard and saw all the ever, So
you know, what can you do?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Do you think Ali that they should have should not
have brought in the mental health element you mean.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
In the post reporting? Yeah, well nothing surprises me anymore
actually on how stuff is reported, Heather, But I think
it's probably something people were thinking. I found it confusing.
I mean, why bring that in when it's obviously something
that didn't play a part in the decision on the center.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because is it possible Ali that while the court may
not have found that she had gone into a place
that was I mean, the court didn't find her insane, right,
but it's still possible that postnatal depression, I mean obviously
was part of it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Is that not possible?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
But yeah, but we're not psychiatrists or psychologists or mental
health experts. I mean, as Claire said, no one can
imagine what this has done to the family or I mean,
just watching the story with those little girls was my
heart was breaking. And we're not the experts to answer that,
so we kind of have to trust that the people
representing her in court did all that they could do
(03:06):
to address that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Is it clear?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Maybe just us trying to understand And I say this
as like myself as a woman who is a mother,
Is it us trying to understand how and God's name
a mother could do this?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah? And I don't think you probably can. And it's
such a dark place to think of being in that
you would do that and do it twice again after
killing the first child, you would think something would shake
you away, But we're not conscious, but it really you know,
(03:38):
the mental health issue is a major but mental health
does not excuse murder. But nothing can ever red help
for the loss of those those children and the terrible,
terrible features for everybody has that hanging over your head
in that family.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Absolutely, Okay, we'll take a br and come back with
you guys, and just to cot urge us a little bit,
the huddle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
With New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty on parallel reach and results.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Back with the huddle, Ali Jones cleared to law Ali,
what do you make of the sentencing changes to really
pull those sentencing judges at a line?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think parliaments reacting to what the current governments you know,
has said and made very clear and campaigned on the
lack of consequences for violent crime. And you know what
we've still seeing needs addressing. The thing that I think
they're missing here, and to use one of their phrases,
it needs a laser focused effort from the coalition government
is how are they're going to deal with the increase
(04:33):
in prison population?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You know?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
And I would have liked to have heard Paul Goldsmith
respond to that also, how they're dealing with the urgent
need of breaking some of the generational dysfunction that leads
to you know, generations of families continuing to break the law.
I mean that the poverty, the generational issues that poverty cause.
That's what I'd like to see some long term strategy
(04:58):
thinking on. But overall, they're doing what we said they
were going to do, and I think it's about time
that web was brought back into line.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You're too right clear, are you into it?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I'll start a game header you can share.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You can cheer for the crimes going to jail.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Le's okay, Well, I'm not charing for crims. I think
that Parliament has to respond to not just the public moves,
but actually the reality of the type of crime that's
being commission and I think that it's a really good thing.
For example, that if your work at your home are
bound up together, like so many dairy owners, that that
(05:34):
becomes a more serious, almost like a home invasion church,
rather than just a standalone charge of ram rating. And
you know, Parliament has set guidelines before, so for those
who criticize the alteration of them, it's not the first
time that Parliament has set guidelines and it's not for
the judiciary to resile from from the laws that have
(05:57):
made them this country. So lets just hope that have
some effect. But I agree with Ellie, what will you
do when you have a grownd prison population. Clearly you
drop the idea of cumulative sentences for a whole bunch
of things because you just don't have pasty. That's a
big worry.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
How do you feel, Allie about Chris Hopkins saying that
Winston Peters is courting the kooka vote by having a
problem with Labour's jack up of an inquiry.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Oh, I gripped my stomach and laughed wholeheartedly when I
heard that. Heather, It's nonsense. Absolutely, I do think though
there's a little bit of perhaps Peters and Seymour wanting
to stick it to Labor. You know, I can see
that that would give them great joy. But I think
the question you have to ask is what is a
review going to achieve? Because if it's the point Fingers
(06:44):
and you know, a portion blame, then I see no
point at all if it's to look at the way
that things could perhaps be done better so the next
time this happens, we can do.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Kelly, You're not the first person to say this on
the show. Let me ask you this question. Okay, was erebis?
Was that a royal commission and commission of inquiry?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
We are from my recollection?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Was the point of it to point fingers and a
portion blame?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think it depends what the terms of reference to.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But there's value in that, isn't there? I mean there
is no one actually saying you are responsible for this thing?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, but is that the right place to do it?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I mean I would it's yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Look, I think that the operational, the way something is run,
and the people who are employed and the people who
are employe who employ them, that's where the accountability and
the consequences are. I don't see any point in having
a royal commission on something so that you can blame
someone and point fingers. Sure, there's got to be some accountability,
but you make it general and you also highlight what
(07:45):
needs to be done so it doesn't happen again. That's
the value of a review.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Okay, And what do you think, Claire.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, I have a square velatois said next time, because
I think we have to take the chance while it's
still fresh enough to learn for the future. Because this
mon't be bad pandemic, that is, we all know them
now and to actually report for historical purposes too what happened.
It's pretty important to know about the lockdowns, the criteria,
(08:12):
the creation of the circled lobby, which was actually a
very unfair lottery, and to avoid that sort of lack
of compassion coming back into the response. You know, for
Inston Peters there is a degree of settling schools here.
You might recall that he was trespassed from Parliament grounds
for two years for going down and speaking to the protesters. Now,
(08:33):
not all of them were not jobs, but some of
them were. But he was conflectly, as it turned out
later because that Treess Bath notice was overturned. It was
with his lights to go and speak to those people.
So I think it's important to know what are the
what are the boundaries of even the Speaker of our
Parliament who imposed that Tess Path notice on members, well
(08:58):
he was a member of Parliament, but on people legitimately
going about their business. I'm reporters for example, did not
go down. There's a lot of there's an awful lot
of information yet to the surface, and I think the
settling of scores is important to Winston Peters. He does
seem to be somebody with an extant like memory. But
(09:19):
I also do think that for the rest of us
it's important kind of.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If I'm completely honest, I feel like I might have
a few scores to settle as well. I really appreciate it.
Love talking to the pair of your clutt or Alie Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty exceptional marketing
for every property on the Huddle.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This even cleared to law and Allie Jones. Hell are
you too, Colot Claire? Eighteen years for Lauren Dickison? Was
she mad or was she bad?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Well? She was found able to stand trial for these
three letters. She wasn't fund insane, So I think you'd
have to say, if you're convicted to murder, there is
an element of bad there. But I think mostly this
is a very, very sad situation. There are absolutely no winds.
There's nothing except lost for everyone, including her. She has
(00:39):
lost everything and she knows that, presumably that she was
fittan trial, she is very aware of what she did
and the facts that we're reader are just appalling. So
for the whole family, for everyone involved. It is just
the most unbearable sort of thought. What happened to those
(00:59):
three girls and how any of them get on was
normalized after this? Heaven knows?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, hard thing to bear. What do you reckon, Ellie?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I agree with Claire.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I mean, we weren't in the court, we didn't hear
all the evidence, and she was found guilty. What I
found really unnerving and concerning last night with some of
the television coverage where you know, we were hearing from
mental health the experts who talked about the terrible place
that Lauren Dickerson must have been in. I think the
husband may have mentioned this as well. So, you know,
(01:29):
I do agree that that you know, a group of
her peers have found her guilty. But why bring in
the mental health issue there? And is this an entirely
fair sentence for a woman who may have been, you know,
a little unhinged or there being a degree of mental
health issues there? And look, I'd love to have a
(01:50):
long discussion on this too, and I would have loved
to have been in the court for all of it,
because I don't think there's an easy answer. But the
bottom line is she was found guilty by a group
of people who heard and saw all the ever, So
you know, what can you do?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Do you think Ali that they should have should not
have brought in the mental health element you mean.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
In the post reporting? Yeah, well nothing surprises me anymore
actually on how stuff is reported, Heather, But I think
it's probably something people were thinking. I found it confusing.
I mean, why bring that in when it's obviously something
that didn't play a part in the decision on the center.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because is it possible Ali that while the court may
not have found that she had gone into a place
that was I mean, the court didn't find her insane, right,
but it's still possible that postnatal depression, I mean obviously
was part of it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Is that not possible?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:44):
But yeah, but we're not psychiatrists or psychologists or mental
health experts. I mean, as Claire said, no one can
imagine what this has done to the family or I mean,
just watching the story with those little girls was my
heart was breaking. And we're not the experts to answer that,
so we kind of have to trust that the people
representing her in court did all that they could do
(03:06):
to address that.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Is it clear?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Maybe just us trying to understand And I say this
as like myself as a woman who is a mother,
Is it us trying to understand how and God's name
a mother could do this?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah? And I don't think you probably can. And it's
such a dark place to think of being in that
you would do that and do it twice again after
killing the first child, you would think something would shake
you away, But we're not conscious, but it really you know,
(03:38):
the mental health issue is a major but mental health
does not excuse murder. But nothing can ever red help
for the loss of those those children and the terrible,
terrible features for everybody has that hanging over your head
in that family.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Absolutely, Okay, we'll take a br and come back with
you guys, and just to cot urge us a little bit,
the huddle.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
With New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty on parallel reach and results.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Back with the huddle, Ali Jones cleared to law Ali,
what do you make of the sentencing changes to really
pull those sentencing judges at a line?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think parliaments reacting to what the current governments you know,
has said and made very clear and campaigned on the
lack of consequences for violent crime. And you know what
we've still seeing needs addressing. The thing that I think
they're missing here, and to use one of their phrases,
it needs a laser focused effort from the coalition government
is how are they're going to deal with the increase
(04:33):
in prison population?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You know?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
And I would have liked to have heard Paul Goldsmith
respond to that also, how they're dealing with the urgent
need of breaking some of the generational dysfunction that leads
to you know, generations of families continuing to break the law.
I mean that the poverty, the generational issues that poverty cause.
That's what I'd like to see some long term strategy
(04:58):
thinking on. But overall, they're doing what we said they
were going to do, and I think it's about time
that web was brought back into line.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
You're too right clear, are you into it?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I'll start a game header you can share.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You can cheer for the crimes going to jail.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Le's okay, Well, I'm not charing for crims. I think
that Parliament has to respond to not just the public moves,
but actually the reality of the type of crime that's
being commission and I think that it's a really good thing.
For example, that if your work at your home are
bound up together, like so many dairy owners, that that
(05:34):
becomes a more serious, almost like a home invasion church,
rather than just a standalone charge of ram rating. And
you know, Parliament has set guidelines before, so for those
who criticize the alteration of them, it's not the first
time that Parliament has set guidelines and it's not for
the judiciary to resile from from the laws that have
(05:57):
made them this country. So lets just hope that have
some effect. But I agree with Ellie, what will you
do when you have a grownd prison population. Clearly you
drop the idea of cumulative sentences for a whole bunch
of things because you just don't have pasty. That's a
big worry.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
How do you feel, Allie about Chris Hopkins saying that
Winston Peters is courting the kooka vote by having a
problem with Labour's jack up of an inquiry.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Oh, I gripped my stomach and laughed wholeheartedly when I
heard that. Heather, It's nonsense. Absolutely, I do think though
there's a little bit of perhaps Peters and Seymour wanting
to stick it to Labor. You know, I can see
that that would give them great joy. But I think
the question you have to ask is what is a
review going to achieve? Because if it's the point Fingers
(06:44):
and you know, a portion blame, then I see no
point at all if it's to look at the way
that things could perhaps be done better so the next
time this happens, we can do.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Kelly, You're not the first person to say this on
the show. Let me ask you this question. Okay, was erebis?
Was that a royal commission and commission of inquiry?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
We are from my recollection?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Was the point of it to point fingers and a
portion blame?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think it depends what the terms of reference to.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But there's value in that, isn't there? I mean there
is no one actually saying you are responsible for this thing?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah, but is that the right place to do it?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I mean I would it's yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Look, I think that the operational, the way something is run,
and the people who are employed and the people who
are employe who employ them, that's where the accountability and
the consequences are. I don't see any point in having
a royal commission on something so that you can blame
someone and point fingers. Sure, there's got to be some accountability,
but you make it general and you also highlight what
(07:45):
needs to be done so it doesn't happen again. That's
the value of a review.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Okay, And what do you think, Claire.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, I have a square velatois said next time, because
I think we have to take the chance while it's
still fresh enough to learn for the future. Because this
mon't be bad pandemic, that is, we all know them
now and to actually report for historical purposes too what happened.
It's pretty important to know about the lockdowns, the criteria,
(08:12):
the creation of the circled lobby, which was actually a
very unfair lottery, and to avoid that sort of lack
of compassion coming back into the response. You know, for
Inston Peters there is a degree of settling schools here.
You might recall that he was trespassed from Parliament grounds
for two years for going down and speaking to the protesters. Now,
(08:33):
not all of them were not jobs, but some of
them were. But he was conflectly, as it turned out
later because that Treess Bath notice was overturned. It was
with his lights to go and speak to those people.
So I think it's important to know what are the
what are the boundaries of even the Speaker of our
Parliament who imposed that Tess Path notice on members, well
(08:58):
he was a member of Parliament, but on people legitimately
going about their business. I'm reporters for example, did not
go down. There's a lot of there's an awful lot
of information yet to the surface, and I think the
settling of scores is important to Winston Peters. He does
seem to be somebody with an extant like memory. But
(09:19):
I also do think that for the rest of us
it's important kind of.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If I'm completely honest, I feel like I might have
a few scores to settle as well. I really appreciate it.
Love talking to the pair of your clutt or Alie Jones.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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