July 18, 2024 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Kiwiblog writer and Curia pollster David Farrar and Auckland Councillor Richard Hills joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Ministry of Social Development has confirmed benefit sanctions rose 53 percent in the June quarter, compared to the year before. Is the tougher approach the way to go to reduce unemployment?
On top of a rocky campaign, President Joe Biden has tested positive for Covid. Is this the last straw for him? Does he need to step down?
There's concern from experts after Associate Health Minister Casey Costello ordered a 50 percent cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. What do we make of this?
Northland's Grant McCullum is calling on Transpower to compensate Northlanders with discounted transmission fees after last month's infamous outage. Will this help?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Huddler's this evening, Kiwi Block and Curryrpolster, David Farrer and
Auckland Council of Richard Hills Kelder Kordawa.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello and Richard.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'll turn on your microphone. There we go. Great to
have you both here. Listen they start off with you, Richard.
So the benefit sanctions has everyone going at the moment,
they've gone up more than fifty percent over the same
period from last year. Is this what we need to
get people to comply with the rules.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, I mean, I guess some would say it's a
social contract, and there are already sanctions that were in place.
But to see quite that dragmatic uplift while unemployment's going
up and benefits are going up and there's not a
lot of jobs out there is pretty concerning. And the
other thing I think that most of the studies show
here and internationally is that benefit sanctions don't actually work.
(00:43):
They don't work to get people in some meaningful employment.
It's things like education and training, and the majority of
people in New Zealand don't stay on and benefit longer
than a round a year.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Although these are obviously tricky economic times, it's interesting that
this government's been quite deliberate, haven't they, David in increasing sanctions,
changing index for beneficiaries, increasing the obligations for young people
to have phone conversations with their managers, while at the
same time we're expecting a surge and unemployment. Well, is the.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Belief that it's not good in the long term to
be on welfare for an extended period. I think everyone
in New Zealand since Michael Joseph seven days, want us
to have a good welfare state for those who have
short term need, but that hard core who do stay
on for sometimes two, three, five, eight years and do
(01:36):
need a bit of prodding. Who all the social investment
advice is. This is the biggest precursor of problems in
children's life, as if they grow up in a household
where none of the adults are actually unemployment. So it's
a bit of a being tough to be kind where
it's giving them that posh to say lots, yo, make
(01:58):
sure you are still doing job interviews. You're not just
seeing they're saying it's too hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
My issue is with the parents though, Like I can
understand you sanctions for single people or people who don't
have other people who for whom they're responsible in their lives.
But don't you think it's a bit rough to be
punishing children for the actions of their parents.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
David, Well, it does come down to whether it's the
children being punished because you make assumption that every dollar
they're spending is actually going on the children, which isn't.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
No, But if it's like, if you're sanctioning, sanctioning a
parent at the risk of their child maybe going hungry
or having a cold night or something, is that honestly
a better option, even if it does have some sort
of effect in prodding the parent, Is that honestly a
better option than just saying, you know what, we're just
going to continue paying this benefit knowing that there might
(02:53):
be a slightly higher chance that this kid is going
to have a warm meal in their belly.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, it comes as short and long term. First of all,
there's still emergency grants. Yeah, no one should be gained hungry.
We actually give out hundreds of thousands of emergency grants
every year to help people in that short term need.
And you don't lose your eligibiloody for those. But again,
if you look at what's going to affect these kids,
most in life is not gain hungry one day, it's
(03:21):
overwhelming me growing up on a household where is no
one working.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think once again it is
around that punishment. It's about the government feeling, you know,
good about doing it. I think the biggest sanction of
being on a benefits getting paid three hundred and fifty
odd or whatever, it is a week like it's pretty
not a great life. And I think you know, all
the stats say most people are trying to get off
(03:45):
a benefit and actually these sanctions can make you in
a shame spiral. You have to sit in a group
with random people. In those A lot of those work
kind of conferences don't actually lead to employment. That's what
the studies say. In New Zealand anyway, David Joe Biden
has COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
The vaultures are circling. I can't think of a senior
Democrat who hasn't leaked. They had a conversation telling the
president to stand down. How long do you give him?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I would have thought it would have happened by now.
The COVID might be the last store, because you shouldn't
judge someone of again COVID, But just as Trump is
looking like Superman, dodging bullets, rallies at Yeah. Yeah, and
he's trying to not have people focus on he's old,
coming down with COVID, you know, just as such a
(04:32):
big contract. But the more serious stuff is that finally
Pelosi and Shumer, the leaders of the Democrat Party, and
Jeffreys and Congress have told him privately, you need to go,
but he's refusing. So of course they've leaked these conversations.
So now it's all wrong. Once folk, seeing your leaders
start leaking that we've told him to go, I can't
(04:54):
see a way he survives.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I feel like the
COVID is a bit of this is the they do
it like, I'm too sick. I can't go on. You
can kind of tell. I mean, the sad thing is
for him in America is that he hasn't really done
anything wrong. He's been quite successful as a president, but
he's just like I guess, made a few stumbles.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He's adherent.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, he's incoherent, but I mean so is Trump. He's
just on purpose, like pretty wild. I mean, he had
to get shot, which is just extraordinary. Yeah, things that
have happened in this campaign already, but I think it
won't be long.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I think the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Issue is the Democrats and Biden have to decide is
it too hard to switch them out or is it
too hard to have Trump for four years? They have
to decide what that is.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, I reckon, So I reckon. Within the next two weeks,
you've had the Republican National Convention. Trump has his big
speech tomorrow. Joe Biden gets a bit of time to
google himself while he's at home with COVID. He's going
to work out that no one wants him to stand.
That'll be the end of that. We're back with a
huddle in a couple of minutes. David Farah, Richard Hills.
How a huddle this evening David Farrer and Richard Hills
and Associate Health Minister Casey Costello has cut the excise
(05:56):
tax on some tobacco products, heated tobacco products by fifty percent,
she says, to make them a more attractive alternative to smoking.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
What do you think, David, Well, I'm surprised it wasn't
already the case, because these alternatives to smoke tobacco definitely
not saying you should do, but they're much much less harmful,
So it's illogical to actually text them at the same
rate as you text smoke tobacco. So I think it's
(06:26):
entirely sensible. It's just the reason why vaping isn't text
it the same rate too, because if people are already smoking,
you'd rather they go to lesser harm products as long
as you acknowledge that it's not zero harm.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, Richard, I had to read this twice to really like,
you know, what the heck has happened. First of all,
they get rid of our world leading smoke free legislation
kind of overnight, which said more people will die from smoking.
Then this happens, and even the World Health Organization says
there's no evidence that says these are better for your
house or better for you than secondhand smoking. They are
(07:02):
marketed to younger people. There isn't evidence saying that they're
being used to quit smoking, and if they are being
used to quit smoking, then they're just getting you addicted
on something else that could be equally as harmful. So
it's bizarre to me, even in the language this is
to make them more attractive than this thing. Yeah, it's
it's bizarre to me.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And the battle for compensation between Northland, doesn't Transpower has
stepped up or not? Northen MP Grant McCallum has sent
a letter to the acting CEO of Transpower demanding compensation
for customers in Northland and suggesting that perhaps Northland customers
could have their bills cut for a year or so.
That seems like a just outcome, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I think, good on them, like he's a new MP,
Like that is what a good MP does. It won't happen.
It was, whether how ridiculous it was, it was still
an accident that you know, this would add precedent. But
good on them, Like that's what you do. You go
out to bat for your residents. You try your best
to get the outcome that they want. I doubt it
will happen.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, what are sciences do you think? David?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I am not great, but maybe this should be a present.
What transparent? You tell he shouldn't be held libel for
genuine accidents? Yeah, yeah, but like lightning strikes.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Maybe for an act of God. It was a genuine accident.
It was just a hopeless accident.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Was well, we unshrewed all the bolts on the tower.
He does need there to be some consequence or center
for this not to hypen the game. Usually with companies,
the financial consequence is the only one they listened to.
Not that I'm sure that the higher ups. Yeah, what
(08:43):
said this was? You know we still have they do it?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Just yeah, I mean it seems bizarre to me, But
there's there's nothing that I can understand from a legislative
perspective that's going to require them. I mean, surely, David,
they're just going to throw this over to the insurance companies, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Well, what they might do is cool, goodwill, But the
problem is, I don't think Trenspower has the ability to
pass them on. You'd have to have all the retailers
agree they have trans Power reduces its charges for that
area that they will passer on. And yeah, there's around
eighteen different retailers. Unlikely.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Finally, Guys, I know you're both sort of sartorial experts,
but the latest fashion coming out of the Republican National
Convention is that lots of Donald Trump supporters, literally dozens
of them, are going around wearing bandages on their right ear.
What do you think, Rich, is it's a pretty slick look,
don't you think?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, I mean every time I look at America, it's
like a bad Simpsons episode, Like it's.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Just I think these I honestly think these are legitimate,
legitimately funny. I mean it's like, regardless of what you're said, because.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
They're not doing it to be funny. They're doing it
to give honor to And you know he did get shot,
which is just outrageous. Yeah, you know, two days later
he's had his conference. But yeah, I did see that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Any political fashions that you think can compare with the
bandage on the year, David.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
The funniest thing about that bandage, which I'm sure and
you have to know what team you are about, but
the one that did what happens when you order a
cushion off team move?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Because Team You's famous for those who know that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
As being a bit cheap, a like a bit you
know sometimes Yeah, no, good for it. Hey, thank you, David,
really appreciate it. David Pharaoh Richard Hills.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Huddler's this evening, Kiwi Block and Curryrpolster, David Farrer and
Auckland Council of Richard Hills Kelder Kordawa.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello and Richard.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'll turn on your microphone. There we go. Great to
have you both here. Listen they start off with you, Richard.
So the benefit sanctions has everyone going at the moment,
they've gone up more than fifty percent over the same
period from last year. Is this what we need to
get people to comply with the rules.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, I mean, I guess some would say it's a
social contract, and there are already sanctions that were in place.
But to see quite that dragmatic uplift while unemployment's going
up and benefits are going up and there's not a
lot of jobs out there is pretty concerning. And the
other thing I think that most of the studies show
here and internationally is that benefit sanctions don't actually work.
(00:43):
They don't work to get people in some meaningful employment.
It's things like education and training, and the majority of
people in New Zealand don't stay on and benefit longer
than a round a year.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Although these are obviously tricky economic times, it's interesting that
this government's been quite deliberate, haven't they, David in increasing sanctions,
changing index for beneficiaries, increasing the obligations for young people
to have phone conversations with their managers, while at the
same time we're expecting a surge and unemployment. Well, is the.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Belief that it's not good in the long term to
be on welfare for an extended period. I think everyone
in New Zealand since Michael Joseph seven days, want us
to have a good welfare state for those who have
short term need, but that hard core who do stay
on for sometimes two, three, five, eight years and do
(01:36):
need a bit of prodding. Who all the social investment
advice is. This is the biggest precursor of problems in
children's life, as if they grow up in a household
where none of the adults are actually unemployment. So it's
a bit of a being tough to be kind where
it's giving them that posh to say lots, yo, make
(01:58):
sure you are still doing job interviews. You're not just
seeing they're saying it's too hard. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
My issue is with the parents though, Like I can
understand you sanctions for single people or people who don't
have other people who for whom they're responsible in their lives.
But don't you think it's a bit rough to be
punishing children for the actions of their parents.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
David, Well, it does come down to whether it's the
children being punished because you make assumption that every dollar
they're spending is actually going on the children, which isn't.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
No, But if it's like, if you're sanctioning, sanctioning a
parent at the risk of their child maybe going hungry
or having a cold night or something, is that honestly
a better option, even if it does have some sort
of effect in prodding the parent, Is that honestly a
better option than just saying, you know what, we're just
going to continue paying this benefit knowing that there might
(02:53):
be a slightly higher chance that this kid is going
to have a warm meal in their belly.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, it comes as short and long term. First of all,
there's still emergency grants. Yeah, no one should be gained hungry.
We actually give out hundreds of thousands of emergency grants
every year to help people in that short term need.
And you don't lose your eligibiloody for those. But again,
if you look at what's going to affect these kids,
most in life is not gain hungry one day, it's
(03:21):
overwhelming me growing up on a household where is no
one working.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think once again it is
around that punishment. It's about the government feeling, you know,
good about doing it. I think the biggest sanction of
being on a benefits getting paid three hundred and fifty
odd or whatever, it is a week like it's pretty
not a great life. And I think you know, all
the stats say most people are trying to get off
(03:45):
a benefit and actually these sanctions can make you in
a shame spiral. You have to sit in a group
with random people. In those A lot of those work
kind of conferences don't actually lead to employment. That's what
the studies say. In New Zealand anyway, David Joe Biden
has COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
The vaultures are circling. I can't think of a senior
Democrat who hasn't leaked. They had a conversation telling the
president to stand down. How long do you give him?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, I would have thought it would have happened by now.
The COVID might be the last store, because you shouldn't
judge someone of again COVID, But just as Trump is
looking like Superman, dodging bullets, rallies at Yeah. Yeah, and
he's trying to not have people focus on he's old,
coming down with COVID, you know, just as such a
(04:32):
big contract. But the more serious stuff is that finally
Pelosi and Shumer, the leaders of the Democrat Party, and
Jeffreys and Congress have told him privately, you need to go,
but he's refusing. So of course they've leaked these conversations.
So now it's all wrong. Once folk, seeing your leaders
start leaking that we've told him to go, I can't
(04:54):
see a way he survives.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I feel like the
COVID is a bit of this is the they do
it like, I'm too sick. I can't go on. You
can kind of tell. I mean, the sad thing is
for him in America is that he hasn't really done
anything wrong. He's been quite successful as a president, but
he's just like I guess, made a few stumbles.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He's adherent.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, he's incoherent, but I mean so is Trump. He's
just on purpose, like pretty wild. I mean, he had
to get shot, which is just extraordinary. Yeah, things that
have happened in this campaign already, but I think it
won't be long.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I think the.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Issue is the Democrats and Biden have to decide is
it too hard to switch them out or is it
too hard to have Trump for four years? They have
to decide what that is.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, I reckon, So I reckon. Within the next two weeks,
you've had the Republican National Convention. Trump has his big
speech tomorrow. Joe Biden gets a bit of time to
google himself while he's at home with COVID. He's going
to work out that no one wants him to stand.
That'll be the end of that. We're back with a
huddle in a couple of minutes. David Farah, Richard Hills.
How a huddle this evening David Farrer and Richard Hills
and Associate Health Minister Casey Costello has cut the excise
(05:56):
tax on some tobacco products, heated tobacco products by fifty percent,
she says, to make them a more attractive alternative to smoking.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
What do you think, David, Well, I'm surprised it wasn't
already the case, because these alternatives to smoke tobacco definitely
not saying you should do, but they're much much less harmful,
So it's illogical to actually text them at the same
rate as you text smoke tobacco. So I think it's
(06:26):
entirely sensible. It's just the reason why vaping isn't text
it the same rate too, because if people are already smoking,
you'd rather they go to lesser harm products as long
as you acknowledge that it's not zero harm.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, Richard, I had to read this twice to really like,
you know, what the heck has happened. First of all,
they get rid of our world leading smoke free legislation
kind of overnight, which said more people will die from smoking.
Then this happens, and even the World Health Organization says
there's no evidence that says these are better for your
house or better for you than secondhand smoking. They are
(07:02):
marketed to younger people. There isn't evidence saying that they're
being used to quit smoking, and if they are being
used to quit smoking, then they're just getting you addicted
on something else that could be equally as harmful. So
it's bizarre to me, even in the language this is
to make them more attractive than this thing. Yeah, it's
it's bizarre to me.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And the battle for compensation between Northland, doesn't Transpower has
stepped up or not? Northen MP Grant McCallum has sent
a letter to the acting CEO of Transpower demanding compensation
for customers in Northland and suggesting that perhaps Northland customers
could have their bills cut for a year or so.
That seems like a just outcome, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I think, good on them, like he's a new MP,
Like that is what a good MP does. It won't happen.
It was, whether how ridiculous it was, it was still
an accident that you know, this would add precedent. But
good on them, Like that's what you do. You go
out to bat for your residents. You try your best
to get the outcome that they want. I doubt it
will happen.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, what are sciences do you think? David?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I am not great, but maybe this should be a present.
What transparent? You tell he shouldn't be held libel for
genuine accidents? Yeah, yeah, but like lightning strikes.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Maybe for an act of God. It was a genuine accident.
It was just a hopeless accident.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Was well, we unshrewed all the bolts on the tower.
He does need there to be some consequence or center
for this not to hypen the game. Usually with companies,
the financial consequence is the only one they listened to.
Not that I'm sure that the higher ups. Yeah, what
(08:43):
said this was? You know we still have they do it?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Just yeah, I mean it seems bizarre to me, But
there's there's nothing that I can understand from a legislative
perspective that's going to require them. I mean, surely, David,
they're just going to throw this over to the insurance companies, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Well, what they might do is cool, goodwill, But the
problem is, I don't think Trenspower has the ability to
pass them on. You'd have to have all the retailers
agree they have trans Power reduces its charges for that
area that they will passer on. And yeah, there's around
eighteen different retailers. Unlikely.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Finally, Guys, I know you're both sort of sartorial experts,
but the latest fashion coming out of the Republican National
Convention is that lots of Donald Trump supporters, literally dozens
of them, are going around wearing bandages on their right ear.
What do you think, Rich, is it's a pretty slick look,
don't you think?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, I mean every time I look at America, it's
like a bad Simpsons episode, Like it's.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Just I think these I honestly think these are legitimate,
legitimately funny. I mean it's like, regardless of what you're said, because.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
They're not doing it to be funny. They're doing it
to give honor to And you know he did get shot,
which is just outrageous. Yeah, you know, two days later
he's had his conference. But yeah, I did see that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Any political fashions that you think can compare with the
bandage on the year, David.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
The funniest thing about that bandage, which I'm sure and
you have to know what team you are about, but
the one that did what happens when you order a
cushion off team move?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Because Team You's famous for those who know that.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
As being a bit cheap, a like a bit you
know sometimes Yeah, no, good for it. Hey, thank you, David,
really appreciate it. David Pharaoh Richard Hills.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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