Full Show Podcast: 18 July 2024

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Pressing the newsmakers to get the real story. It's Jack
Tame on Heather due to see Ellen drive with one
New Zealand. Let's get connected and new Stalk said BYRD.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
And New Zealand. Good afternoon, Welcome to Newstalk's EDB Jack
Taman the hot seat four Heather. For the remainder of
this week, one hundred thousand people and businesses one hundred
thousand customers in Northam were left without power after they've
forgot to keep the nuts on when they were upgrading
or testing that power pylon. Now Northland's MP says trans
Power needs to cough up. We'll give you the details

(00:39):
after five o'clock plus. Would you believe this benefits sanctions?
So the sanctions put on beneficiaries have increased fifty percent
over the last quarter. The Greens are not happy, though
they will be with us very shortly. Right now, it
is eight minutes past four up Team brain fog, a
raspy voice, weakness, confus usion, exhaustion. To be honest, the

(01:03):
COVID nineteen symptoms aren't actually too different from how US
President Joe Biden presents when he's perfectly healthy, but his
diagnosis today could mean an opportunity for the President to
step back from his public facing demands for a few days,
take stock of the crazy events of the last couple
of weeks, and finally finally pull pin on his campaign.

(01:26):
Right from the start of that woeful presidential debate performance,
I've personally felt that Joe Biden's candidacy is totally untenable.
If the Democrats are to have any chance of winning
the White House in November, they have to find a
way to push him out and unite around a younger,
better fresher candidate. News today out of the US is

(01:46):
that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has privately pressured Joe
Biden to stand down. Add to that House Minority Leader
Hakem Jeffreys who reportedly offered him the same message. That
means the two most powerful Democrats in Congress think that
their party's chances are not best served in November if
Joe Biden is still on the ticket. Personally, I love

(02:09):
the idea put forward by Bill Clinton's old advisor James Carvill,
he of the It's the Economy's Stupid advice. He reckons
that the Democrats should do a series of massive town
hall meetings one in the Midwest, one on the south,
one on the East coast, and one on the West coast.
Take Joe Biden completely out of it. Have Barack Obama

(02:31):
and Bill Clinton facilitate the four Big meetings, a handful
of potential Democrats competing against each other on stage, broadcast
live around the world. Turn it into American idol. But
you know, for presidential candidates. The Republican Convention underway right
now is giving the Dems a perfect example of how

(02:51):
a carefully crafted, made for TV extravaganza can amplify the
hype around a candidate. But to get there first, they
need Biden to step away. And bad as his COVID
nineteen diagnosis might be for Joe, this is probably their
single best chance.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Team ninety two.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Ninety two is the text number if you want to
get in touch, if you're gonna put me an email
jacket news to what was dB dot co dot nz
is the address you need. Ten past four three high
schools are defying orders from the Ministry of Education to
enroll students that have been expelled from other schools. So
in the Ministry has sent two hundred and sixty one
letters to schools in the past year legally forcing them

(03:34):
to enroll certain students, but three schools are refusing to comply.
Now we don't know which schools have refused, only that
two of them are in Auckland and one of them
is in Wyecuttle. Tim O'Connor is the headmaster of Auckland
Grammar and is with us this afternoon. Calder, good afternoon.
Let's get this out of the way. It is Auckland

(03:54):
Grammar one of those three schools, not on this occasion,
on this occasion, it has been in the past.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
I certainly had discussions with the Ministry about their methodology
with directing schools to direct us to take students. Largely
they've been in the case of enrollment, people who are trying,
to my view or in the school's view at the time,
cheap the z own to win a place at the school.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Have you ever had occasions when a student who's been
expelled from another school, but as legally within your school zone,
you didn't want to enroll them.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
No, I haven't had that sort of scenario. I think
one of the critical things for the general public fairware
of jack is that the complication for a principle and
for a board because this obligation actually lies with the
board rather than the principle is that the board has
an obligation to create a safe environment for the students

(04:56):
in its care. So it becomes a bit of a
conflict of interest really when the Ministry is then directing
a school or a board to accept a student who
has been beamed unsafe typically if they've been expelled or excluded,
then it will be for extreme behavior typically, right, and
so that student could compromise the safety of the new school.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
So it's kind of antithetical that on one hand they're
getting the Ministry saying you have to enroll the student.
On the other hand, regulations as it stands say you
have to provide a safe environment for all students.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yeah yeah, right, I can appreciate the position of the school, right.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's very tricky. I mean, these kids have
to go somewhere though, right, yes.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
But what I'd encourage in the first instance is actually
the Ministry of Education communicate well with schools, and typically
my experiences, they don't. They will simply write you a
letter directing you to take a student, and then what happens,
of course, is a fight. Figuratively, so if the ministry

(06:03):
instead actually came to a school in person, the conversation
with the principal, explain what support they would wrap around
that student to enable them to experience some form of
what have the potential to experience success, Then you might
have a way forward. Unfortunately, we've sort of got bureaucracy
taking the easy option of just actually writing a letter

(06:25):
pumping about not communicating with schools, and so schools get
their backs up and say, you're not going to resource
us to take a student of high needs?

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Why will we?

Speaker 6 (06:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, yeah, I can understand how schools might take that position.
So what might that support look like? If it's a
student who's been expelled from another school, say, and potentially
presents a risk to students who are already enrolled in
your school, what would appropriate support look like?

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Well, the whole part, it depends on the situation. Obviously,
not every student's going to be a different situation. If
it's a drug related matter, then I'd be asking for
appropriate testing to have taken place and for that to
be funded, for there to be additional support wrapped around
them in terms of additional counseling, in fact, specialized counseling,

(07:10):
for there to be ongoing drug testing, et cetera, et cetera,
and for the ministry to actually pick up those costs
so that there is a chance for that student to
experience success in the school and for the school not
to actually put other students at risk.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
And your experience, are there occasions when the ministry does
do that or does a good job of that, will.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
You have to push them to go there?

Speaker 7 (07:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (07:31):
And that's the sort of the same thing, really, I
think is that the ministry is not there supporting the
school as much as it should, and instead, instead of
taking the easy option to go we'll make this problem
go away. We'll just direct them because we have the
power to do that and less instead of the conversation,
agree to some appropriate support. And it'll be cheaper to

(07:52):
do that than to have a student out of school
and then becoming, you know, a truant, someone who is
actually going to break the law, et cetera. Accester, Let's
put a bit of funding behind them to ensure that
they are attending school and that they are supported and
maybe experience some success.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
And so what happens in a worst case scenario, if
that's the best case scenario, what happens if a ministry
and a school remain in an impasse and can't agree
about resourcing a student who the ministry says should be
enrolled at that school.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
What happens then, well, the student has just remained out
of school, So what's going to happen. They're going to
have time on their hands, and who knows what the
home life is like and what sort of support there
is there, So it becomes very difficult where the student
actually has nowhere to go.

Speaker 8 (08:38):
There are, of.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Course other programs. There is alternative education programs for students
who are in extreme situations who need to actually change
their behavior, change extreme behavior, and we'd always recommend that
that is a short term pathway. Reintegrating a student into
school is obviously the best option.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, hey, thank you so much. Tim, really appreciate your
time as always. That is to mopon the headmaster of
Auckland Grammar. Heaps of feedback coming through. Jack totally agree
with you, Totally agree. James Carvell has hit the nail
on the head. He's the freaking best. I think this
is a great opportunity for the Dems to finally roll
Joe Biden, or for Joe Biden to finally hear what
all of them are saying. Jack, thank you. The stat

(09:18):
about sanctions on beneficiaries going up fifty percent or more
than fifty percent is ebsy outstanding. Has made my day,
says Adam, Really, Adam, it's made your day ninety two
ninety two. If you want to flick us at Tech
sixteen past.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Four, digging deeper into the day's headlines, it's hither duper
c Allen Drive with one New Zealand one giant leap
for business US Talk.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Said b nineteen past four. You've a Jack Taime on Newstalks.
He'd be Jack. I understand the plight of the board
for those schools, but honestly, those poor kids being bumped
around knowing that no one wants to take them on,
it utterly breaks my heart as someone who didn't fit
in with the system. Yeah, sort of, there are fairls
like there are no winners of the situation, AE, but
thank you for that, Jamie, ninety two ninety two. If
you want to flick us the message, Darcy wa the

(10:00):
Grave is on Sports Talk this evening, and by goodness,
State of Origin was a violent affair.

Speaker 9 (10:06):
Violent. It's one way of putting.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
It, which is an incredibly bad spiritus.

Speaker 9 (10:10):
It was a testoster zone, that's what it was, and
it spewed out of every pore of all the players
on there. Right from the get go. It just started
on fire and it didn't stop relentless. The physicality of
that game, the intent of the athletes is they basically
try and run right through you, not around you or

(10:31):
into you, but through over and they carry on. I
could not get over at the first forty minutes was exceptional,
and of course it was very, very tight. What makes
it even better. I used to be a Maroons fan.
I lived over there for a while. But the longer
it goes on, the less I care about who wins.
I just want to see in exchange it doesn't actually
bother me who comes out with the lollies at the

(10:52):
end of I want to see good rugby league. I
want to see hard rugby league. I don't think it
needs to be too aggressive. And the handbags at fifty
paces is all, but really, yeah, it's kind.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Of like an ice hockey, right.

Speaker 9 (11:06):
They throw their gloves off and yeah, yeah, but the
display and toward the end of it, look for New
South Wales to do that at some corpus is something
else there. The heat in that stadium is extraordinary and
we know what the thought processes were around Michael McGuire
coaching that new South Welsh team and round me written
off and then they came back and absolutely bulldozed Queensland

(11:30):
and that second Matt So that's okay, we're back, came
for the last We've got it. Uh no you haven't.
And the brilliantly named Bradman best player of the day.
I think in the park that he looked exceptional.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Six debutants named in the all Black side to play
and black Black header back as well.

Speaker 9 (11:48):
Yeah he's back on the open side flank and we
have got Ardie Savilla up the boots. But you go
back to the debutants, six of them, five of them
on the bench. There's three guys on the bench not
no Wah has had one test. Then the other two

(12:08):
De Groot and Jordi Barrett have had quite a few.
But you get to the stage at the game when
the Fijians are playing. I don't know what the weather's
going to be like in San Diego, hopefully hot like
this for Mica desk, so like this Marble desk. We
will broadcast on. It'll be a wonderful tight land for
them to hard land for them to run on. The
Fijians might get up and start going. The All Blacks

(12:31):
will try and keep them right in the middle, keep
them down and try and grind their way through. But
the Fijians start running away and we get to twenty
minutes to go, how likely Scott Robertson going to be
too empty? His bench with five decents on it. That's
a lot of pressure to put onto young guys. Yeah,
a lot of pressure. So we expect what I'd expect
that the game will start off with the hesson a

(12:52):
raw and I'm like Origin, and the All Blacks will
try and get out well ahead before they need the substitute.

Speaker 10 (12:59):
Took it.

Speaker 9 (12:59):
It is time, Scott Robinson, Maywell and dig go. You
know what, You're an All Black now get out there
and in your stripes the other fascinating sides of it.
And Justin Marshall joins us on the show this evening
up after seven o'clock on Sports Talk is Court and
I asked him, I said, or Ratima and he goes,
I don't care either way, it doesn't bother. So you
can tea or whatever. It is anyway, So courtis one test,

(13:22):
it's great, the other day amazing, hold them off the bench,
no test, So your half back pairing all Blacks has
a grand total of one test off the bench to
back up. That's more pressure. But you've got Ardie Savia
coming out a eight, help out, Damien McKenzie settling, and
it's on the outside and yeah there's some interesting course.

(13:43):
We'll talk all about it up after seven o'clock with
Just marsh.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
It's it's not going to be the test aster zone
that this is right now and who that were before?
I love it well.

Speaker 9 (13:51):
I made another one up on the weekend when things
get bad, the stress toss zone and that's any all
Black match at home because it's just full of means
stressing out, testosster zone, going through the roof, sitting in
the same space, a stress toster.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Stress tosters are very good, very good. You can see
he's a learned man. Twenty three past four on Newstalks,
he'd be.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Digging deeper into the day's headlines.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's Jack Team on Heather Duple see allan drive with
one New Zealand let's get connected news.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Talks'd be it's pretty funny watching the Republican National Convention
because heaps of Donald Trump supporters have turned up in
Milwaukee and they started wearing these little ear patches. So
just like you know, Trump had the bandage right when
he came out on his right here he came out
in a dress or stood before the masses of Milwaukee
for the first time the other day. Apparently this good
reason that he has such a big bandage on his ear.

(14:37):
This is kind of gross, but his doctor said that
the bit that he got nicked on in the ear
is a part of the ear that apparently bleeds a lot,
and so they wanted to make sure he had a
really big bandage in case it became kind of weepy. Anyway,
that's disgusting, but all of his supporters have, of course
turned it into a really good thing. There are just
dozens of people at the Republican National Convention walking around

(15:00):
with giant white bandages on the air, which, regardless of
what you think about Trump, you have to concede it's
pretty funny. We're gonna be talking Joe Biden before five o'clock.
He's got COVID Jack. I wouldn't be surprised if he
doesn't recover from his COVID diagnosis, says Bruce, by design.
But then I keep a collection of tinfoil hats. Yes,
thank you for that, Jack. Unfortunately, the problem with Biden

(15:21):
is it's personal between him and Trump. If Biden steps aside,
then Trump will gloat that he ran away scared. Jadie Vance,
Trump's vice presidential pick, has spoken, so we'll bring you
some of his comments. Plus, the Mayor of France has
taken a dip in this end to prove that it's healthy.

Speaker 10 (15:37):
But really, the.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Day's newswakers talk to Jack first.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Jack, dame on, hither Duplessy Allen drive with one New
Zealand let's get connected us talk.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
Said be So.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Ross was concerned about some numbers I shared with you.
Stats out from the Ministry for Social Development today show
that the number of sanctions for beneficiaries have missed various
obligations has increased fifty percent at the end of June
compared to the same period last year. Right, so fifty
percent of the space of a year. Ross has said, Jack, percentages,
come on, they mean nothing. Let's just assume there were

(16:18):
very minimal numbers of standdowns and sanctions previously. Fifty percent
could be nothing. So I've looked it up. They've gone
from more than six thousand to ten thousand, right so,
which I think is a substantial increase. You would agree, Ross,
But ninety two ninety two is the text number if
you've got thoughts on that, And we'll be talking to
the Greens about it after five o'clock this evening. They
are not happy with the number of sanctions for beneficiaries,

(16:41):
especially as the unemployment rate continues to rise. Right now,
it is twenty four minutes to five.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
It's the world wires on Newstalgsy Drive.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
And yet more bad news for US President Joe Biden.

Speaker 11 (16:54):
I was just on the phone with President Biden and
he shared his deep disappointment at not being able to
join us this afternoon. He just tested positive for COVID YEP.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Biden was campaigning in Las Vegas when he tested positive.
He's now returned to Delaware to recuperate. However, it's full
steam ahead at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee. The
main event today was the first speech from jd. Vance
since he was named as Donald Trump's running mate. The
crowd started chanting his name as he walked to Sage

(17:34):
here is what some of JD Vance had to say.

Speaker 12 (17:36):
Consider the lies they told you about Donald Trump, and
then look at that photo of him defiant, fist in
the air. When Donald Trump rose to his feet and
at Pennsylvania Field, all of America stood with him.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
And finally the mayor of Paris has put her money,
we're amount and taken a dip in the river Seine
and Idalgo and one hundred other people went for a
swim in the river to prove that it's clean enough
for the Olympians to swim in a few weeks time.
She says the water is so clean she's going to
get a public swimming area set up on the river

(18:14):
after the games are over.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
International correspondence with Ends and Eye Insurance, Peace of mind
for New Zealand business.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Murray Old as well as from Australia this afternoon, Kay
Murray halfnudew Jack and speaking of unemployments, Australia is not
too different from New Zealand. In this department, the unemployment
rate has increased.

Speaker 10 (18:33):
It's ticked up four point one percent the latest figure.
Despite the fact last month more than fifty thousand new
jobs extra jobs were created, most of them full time
so what's going on. Well, the simple fact of the
matter is more people now are looking for work because
of the cost of living crisis that's biting even harder
over here. This time last year, three and a half

(18:54):
percent was the unemployment rate. Now, pre COVID it was
over five percent. So the big question now, of course,
will interest rates have to go up to try and
hose down inflation. The Reserve Bank meets early in August,
and these job numbers will be of concern because look,
I mean, more people and work is good, right, more

(19:14):
people are working, there are more jobs being created. That's
also going to fuel inflation, is the fear because all
those extra pay packets who are washing around in the economy. Now,
for the Reserve Bank over here, public enemy number one
definitely is inflation. And some economists are now tipping the
bank's going to pull the trigger in August and lift
rates by a quarter of one percent that's the cash rate,

(19:36):
just to keep tapping the inflation break. And households need
that like a bang on the head.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, labor has taken aim at the embattled construction union.

Speaker 10 (19:45):
Oh but heaven's above. I mean, it was just I mean,
the big question is why has it taken them so long?
I mean state governments and the federal labor government. They've
been in bed with unions ever since they were set up.
They were set up by unions. Where's big surprise that
labors in bed with unions. But here's the thing, this
is a bed mate you don't want because there have

(20:08):
been so many allegations against the look it's it's a
big omnibus union. The construction, the sea of him here, construction, forestry, mining,
blah blah blah. Most of them are fine. It's the
construction buffheads who, according to nine newspapers and sixty minutes
over here, the construction side of things have been absolutely
raughting the system, getting organized crimes, infiltrated building sites. Bikings

(20:33):
have got key jobs. We had the building the Master
Builders Association on the other morning. I know the guy
who runs it here in New South Wales. He says,
thousands of dollars change hands just to guarantee peace on
building sites. The union tells bosses, tells developers who they
can and can't hire. They cop bribes, as I said,

(20:55):
for on site peace, and those who don't pay well,
they just you know, a good luck getting a concrete
on time. Here's the thing. All these kickbacks and so
on can add thirty percent to the cost of a
building project. That's labor and materials and the builder's labor.
I'm bigger part of the builders labor as that was
outlawed by Bob Hawk all those years ago. The new

(21:18):
version of the twenty first century version, the Construction Union
is now being threatened with an independent administrator. Basically, the
people who have been running a show are going to
be kicked out and they are howling. So it's Peter Dutton,
and I bet Peter Dutton's winning a lot of friends
over here by saying, my mate, you but you will
you know, this is what you've reaped now, is what

(21:40):
you sewed. As soon as Labour won the last election
they abolished the building industry watchdog that was set up
by Scott Morrison. What do they expect?

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised. Hey, I have nothing
to base us on except for vibes, but I reckon
here in New Zealand among rugby league fans, I reckon
eightied and none would be Queensland Reds fans. So a
lot of disappointed people. Yeah, this is a lot of
disappointed people after last night.

Speaker 10 (22:09):
But well, you know it is very tribal, no doubt
about that. I mean Richard Mwanga very interested to read
about him. This week. He was in the New South
Wales camp before the big game, big decider in Brisbane.
It was one game each New South Wales got pumped
in Sydney, went down in Melbourne. They absolutely smoked Queensland.
So you know, you get a decider in Queensland, that's

(22:31):
a big event. And Mwanga was making the point that
all of his family's Reds fans, he's the only one
who likes New South Wales anyway. It was I think,
hand on heart, one of the greatest games of the
rugby league I can remember. It was absolutely gripping. It
was brutal, huge hits, big tackles, you know, PenPoint kicking,
great passing and all paid at one hundred and one

(22:52):
miles an hour. Half time was two nil to got
only one penalty goal to all that had four two
to Queen's Land. And then the last ten eleven twelve
minutes New South Wales gets two tries to bust the
wide open. So it was fantastic with two unique moments Jack.
One guy was sin bend. He was sitting on the bench.

(23:12):
He wasn't even playing, but he's joined in a bit
of a stink on the sideline and I guess he
decides to wander in like a big puffed ola kauatu.
Who was who plays for my team? Manly, he's going
to get to two weeks banned from the game because
he wasn't even playing. He was in a suit, in
a blazer and a pair of chinos. He's gone waddling

(23:32):
the end of the little It wasn't even a fight.
It was a slap. Yeah, and who's decided to shove
his nose? And well thanks for that, Genia, Good on
you idiot. Anyway, New South Wales has bragging rights for
another year.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, very good. Hey, thanks so much time for
your time. Murray always appreciated that. Murray Old's with us
from Australia. Thank you so much for your feedback. He
he's a messages regarding all of the beneficed beneficiary sanctions
that have been issued in recent times, a fifty percent
increase at the end of the Dune quarter compared to
the year previously. Jack stuff. The greens tax belongs to

(24:05):
all of us. Well, I'm not sure that tax does
revenue maybe from taxes. If you've no work and you're
receiving tax payer money, then as far as I'm concerning,
you need to be responsible. You need to meet your
obligations in order to receive a beneficiary. Jack, If you're
getting our tax dollars to pay for a benefit, you
need to be held to account. You need to accept
there are obligations to follow. Ninety two to ninety two

(24:25):
is the text number if you've got some thoughts on
that to so you know. The liquidation report into SPQR
has been released this afternoon. Of course, the glitzy Ponsonby
Road establishment in Auckland, it owed more than two million
dollars all up to the IRD to staff and creditors,
so almost one and a half million dollars owed to

(24:47):
the IRD. Anyway, we'll take a closer to look at
that after five o'clock as well. Right now it is
sixteen to five.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Politics with Centrics Credit, check your customers and get payments
Certainty News Talks.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
The b Political editor Jason Wall's is with us this afternoon.
High Jason, Good afternoon, Jack. So the PSA has won
its case against the Ministry of Education.

Speaker 13 (25:06):
Indeed it has, and it was very happy about that.
They sent out a press release less than an hour
ago touting that they had basically claiming victory on this one.
The union had filed on Employment Relations Authority proceedings because
of what it said was the ministry's failure to comply
with the collective Agreement in relation to job losses forced
by the government's spending cuts. And unless you've lived under

(25:27):
a rock, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about in
terms of those spending cuts, job cuts across the public
service agency, every single ministry, and of course the Ministry
of Education was not exempt to this. The authority found
that the PSA's interpretation of the collective Agreement with the
Ministry staff had not been complied with by the Ministry,

(25:48):
and the PSA says there was no attempt to engage
with the PSA as an active participant in the change.

Speaker 10 (25:54):
Now.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
That's despite what.

Speaker 13 (25:56):
The Ministry said. The Ministry said that it had engaged
in those conversations, but the Employment Relations Authority has ruled otherwise.
In a statement, the PSA said, the authority also agreed
with the PSA's position that the Ministry was required to
adopt a case by case approach to the outcome outcomes
for individuals. So this means that considering matters such as

(26:17):
retraining leave without pay, early retirement severance, and assisting people
into other work for each individual. So the Ministry now
has twenty eight days to file an appeal to the
Employment Court. This is pretty major, as the Ministry has
previously said if the legal action was successful, it would
have to start the job cutting process all over again.

(26:38):
Quote if the authority finds in favor of the PSA,
this is what the Ministry said at the time when
the proceedings started. We expect that the authority would require
the Ministry to pause all change processes. Further discussions with
the PSA would follow with the aim of reaching agreements
on specific changes. They went on to say that this
may lead to new amendment proposals that may require further

(27:00):
consultation before decisions are made in action. So it's already
paused laying off staff while this legal action happened. But
the Ministry said, no matter what happens, it would still
be cutting offs. It would still be cutting staff.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
They said that.

Speaker 13 (27:13):
They'd made every effort to find the money outside of
the reductions to head counts. However, the savings required to
meet Budget twenty four committed commitments are greater than what
we can do without reducing staff numbers. So what does
this mean. It means that everything is going to get
a lot more expensive.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I would say expect.

Speaker 13 (27:32):
More offers of voluntary redundancies and more legal battles as
we go forward. And there's also the question of precedents,
because we do know that this is not the only
ministry that was grappling against the government's cuts.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Jason both Nikola Willis's Associate Finance ministers have committed somewhat
of a cardinalson what have they done.

Speaker 13 (27:50):
Indeed, in short, they've undermined the independence of the Reserve Bank,
which is what ministers are not allowed to do under
any circumstances. The Reserve Bank sets into rets based on
its read of the economy, so it's deliberately keeping itself
at arm's length from ministers because they shouldn't be getting
involved as it could be perceived that they're politically meddling.

(28:11):
But that's all out the window for now. First with
Associate Minister Finance Minister and Acting Prime Minister David Seymour, who.
After yesterday's three point three percent inflation number was released,
he was asked the obvious question by reporters, should the
Reserve Bank cut interest rates?

Speaker 14 (28:26):
Here's what he said, Well, I can't tell the Reserve
Bank governor what to do, but you don't believe an
economics degree to see people are hurting and flash is
going down fast and relief is required.

Speaker 13 (28:38):
So he might argue that that was not an explicit
instruction saying that relief is required is pretty I would
say it's pretty close to being given directions. If it's
not explicitly saying it, it is getting pretty close to
the line. But there was absolutely no ambiguity around what
the other Associate Finance Minister said, Shane Jones, when he
spoke to the country earlier today.

Speaker 15 (28:58):
Ah, of course we need to reduce the cost of money. Look,
I remember surviving through the global financial crisis that was
two thousand and eight twenty ten. My family had a
whole host of interests and economic enterprises. I think the
circumstances facing a lot of regional New Zealand enterprises are
worse now than they were back in the global financial crisis,

(29:20):
and sadly they're not seeing a monetary impulse coming from
the Reserve Bank. We're seeing the opposite.

Speaker 13 (29:26):
So it's pretty unambiguous there in terms of what his
thoughts off in terms of what should happen, as I understand,
let's stand it. Nikola Willis is also keen to see
the Reserve Bank cut the OCR but she hasn't come
out and said that. I mean yet, no products there
for the Wild's most obvious statement. But the thing is
she hasn't come out explicitly and said it should happen
because it would be improper. So, you know, do I

(29:49):
think that Willis do I think that Jones and Seymour's
urging of the Reserve Bank or their comments will change
their mind. I think they're probably already in a position
where they're thinking of doing it.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Anyway.

Speaker 13 (30:00):
I think it probably might happen earlier this year, but
it's pretty improper for them to do what they've done.
But I don't think it's ultimately going to change much.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, though, Jason, I mean,
the Reserve Bank are educated adults, surely that the Monetary
Policy Committee can actually say yes, of course politicians? What
is he cuts to the OCE era but actually we're
going to make decisions independent of what they want. That's
the whole purpose. Come like judges do when it comes
to sentencing. Surely we have to put a bit of
stock in these people's expertise. But thank you very much

(30:27):
for your time. That is news dogs. He'd be Political
editor Jason Walls. Right now it is eight to five.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers.

Speaker 16 (30:36):
Some my asking, breakfast, what do we make of the
CPI number inflmation that's three point three, which was down
from four form of Finance Minister Stephen Joyce is what
this is.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
The most important problem. If you look across the data,
is the non tradable still a bit high, but trending
in the right direction. And I think there's a real
risk of overshooting. I think they know that, and I
think what will probably happen is you'll get one cut
earlier than we were expecting, and I suspect they might
hold the next round of data.

Speaker 16 (31:01):
Does that, though, go against orthodoxy in the sense that
you don't cut once and hold, you cut and then
you cut because you're confident you've done your job.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
Yeah, ideally My point is looks full on a nine
page right.

Speaker 16 (31:11):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
Jaguar Newstalk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Five five on News Talk ZDB. Tell you what that
Parisian mayor jumping into the Seine reminds me. Do you
remember a couple of years ago? I think it was
the chief Minister of the Punjab region in India decided,
like the chief Minister of Punjab State decided to drink
some holy water from a river to prove that the
river wasn't polluted. Well, it seems that the river was
extremely polluted, and like two days later the chief Minister

(31:41):
of Punjab was in hospital very seriously ill. Do you
remember that a couple of years ago. So as much
as the mayor of Paris might think that she has
proved something by diving into the Seine, at this point,
I suppose the real test and proving that the Seine
is ready for the summer Olympics will come in about
two to three days time. Where like at forty eight
our countdown clock after five o'clock, we're going to tell

(32:03):
you more about this letter from Northland MP Grant McCallum.
He sent a note to the head of Transpower demanding
that Transpower considers some sort of compensation. One hundred thousand customers,
of course, had power cut after contractors working on that
Transpower pylon took too many nuts off. At the same time,
he says, as part of the letter this quote, I

(32:24):
have had contact from constituents who lost twelve hundred dollars
from a day's lost business through to one with nearly
half a million dollars in total lossages due to the outage.
He says, telling these people to rely on the insurance
process is outrageous, and he suggested to the head of
Transpower then instead of insurance, instead of looking at individual claims,

(32:44):
Transpower puts in a blanket reduction on transmission costs for
all Northlanders for the next year. So we'll tell you
about that as well as that green MP Ricardo Menendez
march on why we shouldn't be sanctioning beneficiaries who don't
meet their obligations. In a course, we will take you
to the US for the very latest from the Republican
National Convention and President Joe Biden has COVID. Will this

(33:06):
be the chance he needs to take a bit of
time consider his options for November And finally, pull out
News is next.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
The only drive show you can trust to ask the questions,
get the answers, by the facts and give the analysis.
Jack taim On hither due to c Allen Drive with
One New Zealand let's get connected news talk as the'd be.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
The new government's call for more sanctions against beneficiaries who
don't meet their obligations appears to have been answered by
the Ministry of Social Development. The number of sanctions issued
by MSD in the second quarter of this year is
fifty percent higher than during the same period last year.
Social Development and Employment Minister Louise ups And says wider
use of sanctions will encourage more beneficiaries to get into work.

(33:53):
Ricardo Menendez March is the Green Party's spokesperson for Social
Development and Employment and joins us now killed up deck.
You're not happy about this.

Speaker 17 (34:03):
We know benefit sanctions have never worked to actually support
people into employment, and all they do is actually push
people into poverty. So Louis Sutston's actually talking nonsense when
she claims the bill encourage people into employment by actually
stripping away their means of survival.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Who really is it that hard to turn up for
a meeting?

Speaker 17 (34:24):
Let's make it clear, a lot of the people who
are on the benefit are living extremely stressful lives, often
shifting from hotel to motel experience and things like homelessness, violence,
or severe poverty. Some people actually in research, they've talked
about how being on the benefit it's almost like a
full time job by the nature of just how many
times you have to engage work and income while you're

(34:46):
just trying to survive as well.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
So give us a worst case scenario, how much do
they have to turn up? What do they have to do?

Speaker 17 (34:53):
Well, look, often, if you're already having to choose between
your bills and paying your rent, you may not even
be ab to, for example, to get enough money to
have credit on your phone. You may not be able
to afford the cost of transport. And at the same time,
let's not pretend that a lot of these meetings are
actually meaningful. A lot of the meetings that people are
dragged onto are TikTok exercises that don't help people getting

(35:16):
to meaningful employment. And if you're a parent with giving
responsibilities and you're forced to attend seminar aster seminar that
doesn't actually help you get a job, I can absolutely
see why people are being demoralized by a failed approach
that has not worked for decades.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
That, Ricardo, if most of your social development doesn't apply sanctions,
what incentive is there for anyone to actually follow the
rules and meet their obligations.

Speaker 17 (35:39):
Well, let's make this. Let's make the processes actually support
people into employment, because so far the so called obligations
and work seminars that people have to go to have
not shown to actually help people into employment. There's also
no research that shows benefits sanctions actually help people into employment.
There's no here o overseas, and so I think the
first step would be to make those works them in

(36:01):
ares tailored to ensure that we're connecting people into decent, safe,
well paid work rather than any shitty job, no matter
how poor it is, just for the sake of taking
a box.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Ricato, do you reckon, just philosophically, that there are some
people out there who just don't want to work.

Speaker 17 (36:19):
There may be people with complex lives and caregiving arrangements,
but I don't think it's the minister's job to actually
dictate each person's individual kis.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
So, just philosophically, do you believe there are some people
receiving benefits who just don't want to work.

Speaker 17 (36:35):
Whether there may be one or ten, it does not
mean benefits help, but benefits sanctions have not been shown
to work. Jack, So I think just peddling with the
same failed approach want to actually help anyone. And it's
also quite rich for the government to be kicking people
off work, cutting jobs and pushing people into a benefit
well at the same time doubling down a punishment and

(36:56):
yet not being able to substantiate the millions of dollars
go into these works seminars that have not shown to
help people into good work. We've got plenty of reports
that show that people get just pushed into casual jobs
that end up costing more in choltcare that are insecure
as well.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah, well, while we got you, Ricardo, have you have
you spoken to any of the other Green and peas
about potentially invoking the Waker jumping law with Darlene Tana.

Speaker 17 (37:22):
Look, the party, people in the party will of course
have those conversations because it's a democratic party. But right
now our key message remains the same that Darlene needs
to resign and do the right time.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Have you have you had those conversations we have.

Speaker 17 (37:33):
Not had a caucus meeting to discuss that.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
If you've spoken to Jump, we have.

Speaker 17 (37:38):
Not had those conversations, and the reality is we'll need
to actually have caucus meetings following Darlene's decision. She she
still has talked about how she's making up her mind
about what she'll do with her future, and we've made
it really clear to her that we think that the
best outcome would be for her to resign.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
One last question, would you personally support putting the Waker
jumping decision to the party membership at the AGM?

Speaker 17 (38:02):
To be honest, I haven't even thought of the off
the AGM at that point, because my hope is that
by the.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Name, come on, come on, you gotta have thought of it.
Come on. So if the option was we can we
can put this to a vote at the AGM for
Green Party members. Given your commitment to democracy and transparency,
would you support throwing that decision over to Green Party members?

Speaker 17 (38:21):
I think that's a complete misinterpretation of how the bill
actually works because it does not rely on party members.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
No, but if party members voted for you guys to
invoke it, would you support putting that decision to party
members for you as the caucus to then.

Speaker 17 (38:35):
Invoke if members want to put a remat at the AGM.
But it's completely up to them. But the reality is,
and as we've said before, and as somebody who works
very closely on migrant exploitition issues, I think the right
thing for Darling to do would be to resign them.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Hey, thanks for your time. We really appreciate it. Riccardo
in India's March, it's twelve past five, Team Well, things
keep getting worse for President Joe Biden. He's been diagnosed
with COVID nineteen. He was due to make a speech
in Las Vegas, but it's now flowing home to self
isolate in Delaware. The White House pre sectury release a
statement saying he was vaxitted, boosted and experiencing mild symptoms.
One use US correspondent Logan Church is with us this

(39:11):
evening high Logan. Could this illness come at a worse
time for Joe Biden?

Speaker 18 (39:16):
Well, Jack, it's a terrible time for Joe Biden. I mean,
just cast your mind back a couple of weeks ago,
and we had that disastrous debates that the former president
had agoth the current president had against Donald Trump, and
then the fallout from Vaz and since then, Joe Biden
has been in the fight for his political life. What
he needs to be doing right now is being also
in the campaign trail, holding rallies, showing his country and

(39:39):
the world that even at eighty one years old, he
is young enough and fit enough and with it's enough
to have another go at being president. And the last
thing that he needs to do right now is be
sitting in his home in Delaware, isolating while Donald Trump
has the spotlights.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
A logan reports today that senior Democrats, including Chuck Schumer,
who's the Senate majority leader, have now told Biden he
should step aside. Adam Schiff has done the same, hackeing Jeffries,
Nancy Pelosi. I mean, for goodness sake, how much longer
can he withstand these calls?

Speaker 18 (40:13):
Yeah, and those calls are just mounting by the day.
I've been spending a lot of time, obviously talking to
Republicans here in Milwaukee, where I'm at at the Republican
National Convention, but there's also a number of Democrats around
the city here I've been chatting to on my walks
around when we're filming, and many of them are just
wondering when Joe Biden will set aside, not a matter
of f it's very much when. Now it's understood that

(40:34):
the Democrats will be holding a virtual vote in early
August as to sort of decide where they want to
go in terms of their presidential peck ahead of their
national convention in mid August. But you've got to wonder
at this stage how long Joe Biden can really hold
on for. Of course, at this point Joe Biden, if
we look at his public statements, he doesn't want to
go anywhere at all of his rallies, at every chance

(40:58):
he's gone. He's publicly stated, very loudly, that he is
there to stay for better or for worse. He thinks
that he's the only man that can beat Donald Trump,
and he, as we know so far, it tends to
give it a good old crap. The problem for Joe Biden, though,
is an increasing number of his pasty don't think he's
up for it.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, Donald Trump speaks tomorrow at the Republican National Convention.
What are you expecting?

Speaker 18 (41:20):
Well, it's quite interesting. So after the assassination attempt on
Donald Trump's life, his party, his campaign said that he
essentially throughout his plans campaign, his planned speech for tomorrow,
and totally rerose it. Now, if you think to what
a typical Donald Trump's speech is like, you can think
of things like a very fiery, combative language. We're not

(41:40):
expecting that tomorrow. We're expecting messages of unity and messages
are bringing the country together. So that's what we're expecting
from Donald Trump tomorrow at the Republican National Convention.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Very good, looking forward to it.

Speaker 15 (41:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Logan Logan Church one US US correspondent live for US
from Milwaukee. It's quarter past five. Thank you for your feedback.
Heaves the texts coming in. Jeh, being on benefit is
busier than a full time job. Come on what planet is?
Ricardo Minen? There's March on ninety two ninety two if
you want to lick us a message. This evening. Cops
are back patrolling the streets of christ Church. The city's
new community beat teams have officially launched today in an

(42:13):
attempt to make the city safer. Eighteen police officers will
provide seven day coverage and since they started patrolling, the
apprehended two prolific shoplifters and recovered one thousand dollars worth
of stolen property. Leanne Watson is the CEO of Business
Canterbury and joins us now Calderly and are people noticing
their presence?

Speaker 19 (42:31):
They definitely are and it's really positive to see. It's
been an issue that our Business Cannery members have consistently
highlighted the need for greater presence and just visibility from
the police in some of those areas that we have
had some antisocial behavior, some criminal activity. It's not an
issue that's unique to christ Church. We've seen it nationwide.
So it's really really good to see this sort of

(42:53):
activity come back and see more police presence on some
of those key areas.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
So how bigger difference does it actually make to criminals
if they know law enforcement are in the area.

Speaker 19 (43:05):
Oh if I think it certainly exes it as a deterrent.
And what it does do is it provides some comfort
and some assurance for not only you know, the people
coming into these areas, whether they're shopping, whether they're coming
out for you know, meals, whether we're you know, for tourists.
It provides a level of comfort and assurance and it
also helps the business owners and operators know that there's

(43:28):
some extra support there for them. You know, these businesses
have been doing it really tough for a number of
years and this added pressure of antisocial behavior, and a
lot of it is antisocial behavior as well as some
of that criminal activity. This certainly helps and you know,
some of those things like shoplifting, if there's more place presence,
you know, hopefully we'll just see that decrease over time,

(43:50):
and that in itself will be helpful for those business lines.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
And so do the officers literally just just walk around
or if business has got their number, can you kind
of call them quickly when something happens.

Speaker 19 (44:00):
Well, I think it's a combination of both. You know,
it's really important that businesses continue to report any of
these sorts of incidences through the right channels because when
they do that, that provides really good data for the
police that then helps the police prioritize, you know, where
they spend their time and where they decline their efforts.
So I think it's a combination of both. Obviously, is

(44:21):
there's something that happens on the spot and the police
are in close proximity, I'm sure they'll address those things.
But other than that, it's just continuing to make sure
that they report those sorts of activities as well.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Very good Thanks for your time. Leeann Leanne Watson is
the CEO of Business Canterby. Thank you for your text
with exillience, Jack. If we are paying a benefit, then,
as far as I'm concerned, is the job seekers job
to turn up to a meeting just like the rest
of us. I can't choose not to turn up to
work or turn up to a meeting. Jack. I'm happy
with the sanctions, but what about applying some to the
board and executive team at sky City for failing to

(44:52):
comply with their requirements, says Bruce. Actually, after five thirty, Bruce,
we're going to be speaking with the chief operating officer
of sky City. So sky City is going to shutting
the casino for five days after they reached a deal
with the Department of a Turtle Affairs over some wrongdoing
in the casino. They weren't properly monitoring some people who
were gambling in the casino. So we're going to talk
to Callum Mallett after about that. After five point thirty

(45:13):
this evening, be interesting to see what days SkyCity chooses
to close down the casino will asking very shortly. Right now,
it's twenty one past five.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
The then you trust to get the answers you need.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Jack tam On, Heather Duplice, Alan drive with one New
Zealand let's.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Get connected a news talk as they'd be.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
I mean, it is curious that at the same time
as we are expecting the unemployment rate to substantially increase,
the government's making life for beneficiaries a whole lot tougher
than under the previous regime. They're doing a few different
things right. They are changing the indexing for benefits, which
means that beneficiaries will will receive less money than they
would have under the old system. They're introducing phone based

(45:55):
check in for job seekers, especially young job seekers receiving
a bean. And they're substantially cracking down on people who
don't meet the various requirements with benefit sanctions. So the
latest number from the Ministry of Social Development suggests benefit
sanctions have surged up more than fifty percent on the
same period last year to a total of more than
ten thousand. Now, say what you will about sanctions, I'm

(46:20):
sure personally that a carrot and stick approach is necessary
to get some people back to work. Although and when
looked up, the old Welfare Expert Advisory Group, and their
report agreed with Ricardo. It found there was no evidence
that actually sanctions were effective across the board and getting
people back to work. I got to say, though, there

(46:42):
is one part of the policy I really take issue with.
I think that a carrot and stick approach is fine
for some beneficiaries. If they miss their obligations, they can
be sanctioned. But I don't think there are any circumstances
that can morally justify cutting the benefit to someone with kids.
We don't know how many times that has happened under
this government, yet the data from the Ministry of Social

(47:05):
Development doesn't break it down. And don't forget labor sanctioned
beneficiaries who are pearents as well. But under the government's policy,
a parent on a benefit who fails to fulfill their
obligations can see their benefit cut up to fifty percent.
The thing is, though none of us choose who were
born to there are far too many kids in this

(47:25):
country born into unstable, unsafe homes. But they didn't choose
their appearance any more than you or I did. And
whatever punitive incentive might be realized by cutting a parent's benefit,
surely cannot justify the risk that, as a result of
cutting it, their kid goes hungry or cold for another night.
And let's be honest, that just costs us more down

(47:48):
the track. This is surely what social investment is all about.
A parent on a benefit, repeatedly failing in their obligations
should not be caused for a sanction. It should be
called for a more constructive intervention. Good Team ninety two
ninety two. This issue has certainly got your fired up
this evening. Jack the doll is the same as a

(48:09):
state house. It is a hand up as far as
I'm concerned. Simple, you've got obligations if you are receiving
that money. Craig says, this is exactly what's wrong with
New Zealand. He disagrees with Ricardo men Inde's march. He says,
when it comes down to it, you've got to be
up for any job. I've cleaned toilets, I've dug holes,
I've done everything in between. No such thing as a
shitty job. As the MP suggested, give us your thoughts.

(48:30):
Ninety two ninety two is the text number jacket Newstalk
ZIDB dot CO dot MZ. We will ask our huddle
about that before six o'clock, deceiving Richard Hill's and David
Farrer in with us. It's almost time for the five
thirty years you're with Jack Tame. This is Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
On your smart speaker, on the iHeart app and in
your car on your drive home, it's Jack Tame on
Heather Duplicy Alan drive with one New Zealand let's get
connected and New Talk z B.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Northland MP Graham McCallum has sent a letter to the
head of Transpower demanding compensation for the good people of
north On one hundred thousand customers the course affected by
that power outage after the pylon fell over. Why because
the pilon didn't have the nuts securing it to the
ground anyway. He's come up with a novel but quite
reasonable suggestion. He suggested that Transpower should cut the transmission

(49:31):
fees for its Northland customers for the next year. Grant's
going to be with us after six o'clock this evening.
We'll ask our huddle about that very shortly as well.
David Farah, Richard Hill's the huddle for this evening right now.
It is twenty five minutes to sex Team and sky
City has agreed to shut its casino for five days
at a cost of about five million dollars. It comes
after an internal affairs investigation found twenty three incidents where

(49:54):
customers were able to gamble continuously. Sky City has admitted
it breached its harm minimization obligations. Callum Mallett, sky City's
chief operating officer, and is with us a scevning Hi Callum, Hi, Jack,
So what was the absolute worst case scenario here? What
was the longest continuous gambling case?

Speaker 6 (50:13):
Well, Jack, in this stance, since there were twenty three
instances for one player, and you know, we have an
obligation at the five hour mark to ensure that we
have interactions with a customer, and we failed to do that,
and you know we're sorry for that and we are
focused on getting better.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
So this was twenty three incidents where that player was
able to play for more than five hours, correct, yeesh?
How did this happen?

Speaker 6 (50:43):
Well, it was over a four year period, Jack, And
you know, we rely on both people but also on
technology to alert us to instances where people haven't had
the required breaks that they need to under our host
responsibility program. And we didn't get it right, and since
twenty twenty one, we have been focused on a significant

(51:03):
risk management transformation program, which is included adding significant numbers
of people, significant competency and risk expertise from board level
right the way through the business and ensuring that we
are really focused on training. On top of that, we're
also also introducing mandatory carded play across our New Zealand

(51:25):
businesses from the middle of the next year. Essentially, what
that means is if you don't have a card, you
won't be able to play at our casinos and we
will use those cards to help track time and and
for people. But really importantly people themselves will be able
to use that information to monitor themselves and will lock
them shemes up. But you know' here dak Yeah, as

(51:46):
one thing, you know, we're really gutted about this. We
failed this customer and we're sorry for that and we're
focused on getting better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
So when you say there was a technology fail as
well as the human element in this, what was the
technology fail?

Speaker 6 (52:02):
So we have we use a number of technologies. One
of those technologies that we use at the time was
an alert that essentially monitored how long people are on
a machine for and then would send us an alert.
And you know that wasn't set right. We fixed that.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
How does it know how long?

Speaker 6 (52:18):
So it's been on a machine when they're using a card?

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Right, So that was previously only our cards, Yeah, but
not every one had to have.

Speaker 6 (52:26):
A card right, correct, And so we've introduced since twenty
nineteen facial recognition technology, which not only helps us with
excluded and banned players at the front door, but also
helps us to monitor for continuous play for that long place.
So we're making sure we have those chickens. But the
technology is really important, but the people are the most

(52:48):
important piece jack making sure that they're trained and looking
for those signs and wrapping that care around the customers.
There's fundamental. But there's no question mandatory carded play will
be a significant help for us in this space.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, so can you pick which days the casino will
close down?

Speaker 6 (53:08):
We can't know the days. A natural of Friday, and
we need to work with the d i ACA is
on the basis the Gambling Commission signs off on this acreement.
We will then choose a week that the DA needs
to approve.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
What would be the busiest days of the week for
the casino.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
Our Fridays and Saturdays traditionally.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Right, so if the plan goes through, sky City will
still be open on a Saturday, although would be closed
on Friday night.

Speaker 6 (53:39):
Correctly, we close on the Friday night, putting aside the
day's gap. You know, what we want to make sure
that we reflect on here is that you know, we're
really disappointed by this. We're guts and the financial penalty
is one thing, and the impact you know, to start,
et cetera. But you know, we failed here and we
want to get better at moving forward, and we're using this.

(54:01):
It's just another focus point for us to continuously improve.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
When you say the impact on staff, will your staff
still be paid for those days that they're not working, Yes, they.

Speaker 6 (54:11):
Will still be paid. But it's the impact of a
day like this. You know, I don't want to be
on a call with you talking about this where we
failed and our staff, you know, don't want to be
having conversations with their families and friends about this, and
you know, so we're deeply gutted by it and we
want to get better.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Thanks for finding up, Callum, appreciate it. That is Callum mallop.
Thanks Jack, he's the chief operating officer of Sky City,
New Zealand. Right now is twenty to six The Huddle.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
With New Zealand, Southerby's International Realty, Exceptional Marketing for every property.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Huddler's thisce Evening, Keewi Block and Curry Oppolster, David Ferrer
and Auckland Council, the Richard Hills kild Acordawa. Hello and Richard.
I'll turn on your microphone. There we go. Great to
have you both here. Listen, let's start off with you Richard.
So the benefit sanctions has everyone going at the moment,
they've gone up more than fifty percent over the same
period from last year. Is this what we need to

(54:59):
get people to comply with the rules?

Speaker 10 (55:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 20 (55:02):
I mean, I guess some would say it's a social contract,
and there are already sanctions that were in place. But
to see quite that dragmatic uplift while unemployment's going up
and benefits are going up and there's not a lot
of jobs out there is pretty concerning. And the other
thing I think that most of the studies show here
and internationally is that benefit sanctions don't actually work. They

(55:22):
don't work to get people in some meaningful employment. It's
things like education and training, and the majority of people
in New Zealand don't stay on and benefit longer than
around a year.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, although these are obviously tricky economic times, it's interesting
that this government's been quite deliberate, haven't they, David, in
increasing sanctions, changing index for beneficiaries, are increasing the obligations
for young people to have phone conversations with their managers,
while at the same time we're expecting a surge in unemployment.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
Well, and is that.

Speaker 7 (55:52):
Belief that it's not good in the long term to
be on well for stended period. I think every on
the New Zealand since Michael Joseph seven days, want us
to have a good welfare state for those who have
short term need, but that hard core who do stay
on for sometimes two, three, five, eight years and do

(56:15):
need a bit of prodding. Who all the social investment
advice is. This is the biggest precursor of problems in
children's life, as if they grow up in a household
where none of the adults are actual unemployment. So it's
a bit of a being tough to be kind yeah,
where you know it's giving them that posh to say

(56:35):
lots yo, make sure you are still doing job interviews.
You're not just sitting there saying it's too hard.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
My issue is with the parents though, Like I can
understand you sanctions for for single people or people who
don't have other people who for whom they're responsible in
their lives. But don't you think it's it's a bit
rough to be punishing children for the actions of their parents.

Speaker 7 (56:59):
David, Well, it does come down to whether it's the
children being punished because you make assumption that every dollar
their spending is actually going on the children, which isn't.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
No, But if it's like, if you're sanctioning, sanctioning a
parent at the risk of their child maybe going hungry
or having a cold night or something, is that honestly
a better option, even if it does have some sort
of effect in prodding the parent, Is that honestly a
better option than just saying, you know what, was going
to continue paying this benefit knowing that there may be

(57:32):
a slightly higher chance that this kid is going to
have a warm meal in their belly.

Speaker 7 (57:37):
Yeah, it comes to short term this long term. First
of all, there's still emergency grunts. Yeah, no one should
be gained hungry. We actually give about hundreds of thousands
of emergency grunts every year to help people in that
short term need, and you don't lose your eligibility for those.
But again, if you look at what's going to affect
these kids most in life, it's not gain hungry one day.

(57:59):
It overwhelmingly growing up on a household where is no
one working.

Speaker 20 (58:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think once again it is
around that punishment. It's about the government feeling, you know,
good about doing it. I think the biggest sanction of
being on a benefits getting paid three hundred and fifty
odd or whatever. It is a week like it's pretty
not a great life. And I think, you know, all
the stats say most people trying to get off a benefit.

(58:25):
And actually these sanctions can make you in a shame spiral.
You have to sit in a group with random people
in those A lot of those work kind of conferences
don't actually lead to employment.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
That's what the studies say. In New Zealand anyway, David
Joe Biden has COVID nineteen. The vultures are circling. I
can't think of a senior Democrat who hasn't leaked it.
They had a conversation telling the President to stand down.
How long do you give them?

Speaker 7 (58:48):
Well, I would have thought it would have happened by now.
The COVID might be the last store, because yeah, you
should judge someone up again COVID. But just as Trump
is looking like Superman, dogs Jean Bullets rallies at Strap Yeah. Yeah,
and he's trying to not have people focus on he's
old coming down with COVID, you know, just as such

(59:10):
a big contract. But the more serious stuff is that
finally Pelosi and Shuma, the leaders of the Democratic Party,
and Jeffreys and Congress have told him privately, you need
to go, but he's refusing, So of course they've leap
these conversations. So now it's all wrong. Once those seeing
your leaders start leaking that we've told him to go,

(59:32):
I can't see a way he survives.

Speaker 20 (59:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I feel like the
COVID is a bit of this is the way they
do it.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Like I'm too sick.

Speaker 9 (59:40):
I can't go on.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, you can kind of tell.

Speaker 20 (59:43):
I mean, the sad thing is for him in America
is that he hasn't really done anything wrong. It's been
quite successful as a president. But he's just like I
guess made a few stumbles. Yeah, he's incoherent, but I
mean so is Trump. He's just on purpose, like pretty wild.
I mean he had to get shot, which is just extraordinary. Yeah,
things that have happened in this campaign already. But I

(01:00:04):
think it won't be long. I think the issue is
the Democrats and Biden have to decide is it too
hard to switch them out or is it too hard
to have Trump for four years?

Speaker 9 (01:00:13):
They have to decide what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah, I reckon, So I reckon. Within the next two weeks,
You've had the Republican National Convention. Trump has his big
speech tomorrow. Joe Biden gets a bit of time to
google himself while he's at home with COVID. He's going
to work out that no one wants him to stand.
That'll be the end of that. We're back with a
huddle in a couple of minutes, David Farah, Richard Hills.
Right now, it's fourteen to six, eleven to six. You
were Jack taim on news Stork said, b how a
huddle this evening David Farrer and Richard Hills and Associate

(01:00:36):
Health Minister Casey Costello has cut the excise tax on
some tobacco products heated tobacco products by fifty percent, she says,
to make them a more attractive alternative to smoking.

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
What do you think, David, Well, I'm surprised it wasn't
already the case because these all two us of too
smoke tobacco. Definitely not saying you should do, but they're
much much less hard, so it's illogical to actually text
them at the same rate as you tax smoke tobacco.

(01:01:08):
So I think it's entirely sensible. It's just the reason
why vapen isn't text it the same rate too, because
if people are already smoking, you'd rather they go to
lesser harm products as long as you acknowledge that it's
not zero harm.

Speaker 20 (01:01:22):
Yeah, Richard, I mean I had to read this twice
to really like, you know, what the heck has happened.
First of all, they get rid of our world leading
smoke free legislation kind of overnight, which said more people
will die from smoking. Then this happens, and even the
World Health Organization says there's no evidence that says these
are better for your house or better for even secondhand smoking.

(01:01:45):
They are marketed to younger people. There isn't evidence saying
that they're being used to quit smoking, and if they
are being used to quit smoking, then they're just getting
you addicted on something else that could be equally as harmful.
So it's bizarre to me, even in the language, just
to make them more attractive than this thing. Yeah, it's
it's it's bizarre to me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
And the battle for compensation between Northlanders and Transpower has
stepped up or not. North and MP Grant mcallum has
sent a letter to the acting CEO of Transpower demanding
compensation for customers in Northland and suggesting that perhaps Northland
customers could have their bills cut for a year or so.
That that seems like a just outcome, doesn't it.

Speaker 20 (01:02:26):
I think, good on them, like he's a new MP,
Like that is what a good MP does.

Speaker 9 (01:02:30):
It won't happen.

Speaker 20 (01:02:31):
It was whether how ridiculous it was, it was still
an accident that you know this would add precedent. But
good on them, like that's what you do. You go
out to bat for your residents. You try your best
to get the outcome that they want. I doubt it
will happen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Yeah, what are chances do you think? David?

Speaker 7 (01:02:48):
I am not great, but maybe this should be a
president what transpowering? You tell he shouldn't be held libel
for genuine accidents. Yeah, yeah, lightning strikes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Maybe for an act of god. It was a genuine accident.
It was just a hopeless accident.

Speaker 7 (01:03:06):
Was well, we unscrewed all the bolts.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
On the tower.

Speaker 7 (01:03:12):
It does need there to be some consequence or center
for this not perhappen the game. Usually with companies, the
financial consequence is the only one they listen to. Not
that I'm sure that the higher up. Yeah, what said
this was? You know, we still don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Why they do it, just yeah, I mean it seems
bizarre to me. But there's there's nothing that I can
understand from a legislative perspective that's going to require them.
I mean, surely, David, they're just going to throve this
over to the insurance companies, right.

Speaker 7 (01:03:43):
Well, what they might do is called goodwill. But but
the problem is, I don't think Transpower has the ability
to pass them on. You'd have to have all the
retailers agree they have Transpower reduces its charges for that area.

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
That they'll part on.

Speaker 7 (01:04:00):
And yeah, there's around eighteen different retailers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Unlikely Finally, guys. I know you're both sort of sartorial experts,
but the latest fashion coming out of the Republican National
Convention is that lots of Donald Trump supporters, literally dozens
of them, are going around wearing bandages on their right ear.
What do you think, Richard's it's a pretty slick look,
don't you think?

Speaker 9 (01:04:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 20 (01:04:21):
I mean, every time I look at America, it's like
a bad Simpsons episode, Like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Just I think these I honestly think these are legitimate,
legitimately funny. I mean it's like, regardless of what you're said.

Speaker 9 (01:04:32):
They're not doing it to be funny.

Speaker 20 (01:04:33):
They're doing it to give honor to you know, he
did get shot, which is just outrageous. Yeah, you know,
two days later he's had his conference. But yeah, I
did see that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Any political fashions that you think can compare with a
bandage on.

Speaker 21 (01:04:46):
The year, David.

Speaker 7 (01:04:47):
The funniest thing about that bandage which I saw, and
you have to know what team you are about, but
the one that did what happens when you order a
cushion off team move both of because Team U's famous
for those who know that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
As being a bit cheap, a like a bit you
know sometimes yeah, no, good point. Hey, thank you David,
really appreciate that. David Pharaoh. Richard Hill's our huddle this
evening at six to six on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Your smart speaker, on the iHeart app, and in your
car on your drive home. Heather duperic Allen drive with
one New Zealand one giant leap for Business News Talk said, be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
News Talks, he'd be thank you so much for your
feedback this evening. Heaps and heaps of texts coming through,
angusays Jack. Wouldn't it be great if government departments fronted
up like the Sky City guy did this evening, Jack,
I think a lot of people are underestimating just how
bad the job market is at the moment. My partner,
who is not on job seeker, has applied for every
job in a thirty kilometer range for months and not

(01:05:46):
one single interview. She's desperate to work and should not
be punished because the market is so bad. I mean,
this is one of the kind of tensions at the
heart of all of these policies at the moment, right.
But I suppose the counter argument to that is, even
if you are someone who's desperate to work, if you
are on a job so you could benefit and you
have some basic obligations around meetings and conversations forms that

(01:06:07):
have to fill out that kind of thing, then just
do those things and you'll be fine. You'll be able
to continue receiving your benefit. Jack, this government doesn't care
about kids. They don't even want to give free lunches
or for rentals to be warm. Why would they care
if they sanctioned parents and it risks punishing those children.
Ninety two. If you want to flick a message jacket
Newstalks hedb dot co dot nz is my email address.

(01:06:29):
After six o'clock, we're going to dig into those CPI
numbers from stats zet and ask if there is a
cut to the OCR, does that actually mean we're going
to have lower interest rates?

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
We have Business and Insight the Business Hour with Jack
Tam and My Hr on News Talks at b.

Speaker 11 (01:06:56):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Good news from the CPI data yesterday, But one of
the concerns is that when it comes to cuts to
the OCR, a lot of the banks are already pricing
in changes. So even if the OCR is twenty five
basis points come November, most of the banks are proticting
that already. Some of them think they'll do fifty points
this year. But if it's just the twenty five points,

(01:07:18):
are we really going to see that much pressure ease
when it comes to Mortga trades. We'll take a close
look at that. Before seven o'clock this evening. Right now,
it is seven minutes past six, jack j and the
battle for competition between Northlanders and Transpower has stepped up
a notch. Northland MP Grant McCullum has written to Transpower
saying it has a moral duty to provide compensation after

(01:07:39):
one hundred thousand Northlanders lost power because of transmission power
toppled over in June. Alternatively, Grant McCullum says Transpower should
consider a discounted transmission charge for all Northlanders for a year.
He's with us this evening, good evening, Hey.

Speaker 8 (01:07:54):
Good eating Jackson, the lovely chatman of high WII.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Oh gorgeous. You're in paradise? Is there power? Are there
this evening? Grants?

Speaker 8 (01:08:02):
Well, it's a light time, so that's a good sign.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
That is a very good sign. Yeah, it makes a
nice change. So have you heard anything from Transpower yet?

Speaker 8 (01:08:09):
No, I have not had any response yet, but that
seems you passed the course of them to a degree.
So I wait with beta breath.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Just took us through why you think they have a
moral obligation. It was a contractor working for Transpower who
didn't have the nuts on the bolts right.

Speaker 8 (01:08:24):
Absolutely, yes, but ultimately very responsible for the contractor. And
the reason I feel they have a moral obligation is
this was not an active god. It was an active
incompetence and anyone just shakes their head at what happened.
And it's caused a lot of costs, a lot of people,
a lot of money, a lot of small businesses and
orphans had it pretty rough up here and it was

(01:08:46):
almost like the last straw with road closures and storm
damage and so forth. And it's just not fair for
the businesses of Northland yet to be at the cost
of the incompetence of Transpower.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
So took us through what your constituents have reported to
you in terms of their losses, because your letter to
Transpower says that one business lost almost half a million dollars.

Speaker 8 (01:09:09):
That's correct, Yes, one of the one of the more
substantial businesses in the Far North.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
And ask you what do they do.

Speaker 8 (01:09:16):
The yeah, yeah, J and L the significant the big
mill to the mills up there, they had just shut
down for five days. Yeah, and that's big. It's a
really big cost. And other big businesses in north and
had to shut down for longer than the twenty four hours.
So that because they know, you had the cement works,
Portland cement Works, he had fonterra at at plants amongst

(01:09:39):
and color engineering amongst others, they shut down for longest
so they wouldn't use the high power users, but the
rest of us could have power. Yeah, so yeah, and
that's that's where the big losses came. Yeah, and I
know some of them at their excess is more than
their loss.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Yeah, right, I mean you you would hope that for
those big for the big firms, right, they would have
some sort of insurance arrangement that allowed. But it's probably
the probably the sms, right, they're going to be that
are going to be hurt the most.

Speaker 8 (01:10:04):
Absolutely. At the market that last weekend in Kitty Kitty
and the guy talking to a guy there who sells
pizzas and stuff, he lost twelve undred bucks worth of
stock and so forth, all in preparation he had for
his evening's work. All the stuff he had, he lost,
all the dough and everything, and that costs a lot
of money. And there's it's all relative, right, but we

(01:10:25):
should not They should not have to be at a cost,
nor should they have to be at a cost of
the excess or the hassle of going to an insurance company.
I think this is an easy solution for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
So do you reckon? If Transpower agreed to this, then
that would mean that people wouldn't be able to go
and make insurance claims. They wouldn't have to pay the excess,
but they also wouldn't be making a claim. Is that
how you said?

Speaker 6 (01:10:46):
This working?

Speaker 8 (01:10:48):
Well? Most likely? Ultimately people still act and actors individuals,
But if Transpower do this, they would not be obligated
to do it. This would be obligated to do anything
as it happens, as far as I understand it. But morally,
by dare they? They own Northland?

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:11:04):
Whether individuals want to pursue direct claims or not, that's
over to them. But this is an opportunity for all
awfulness to get something back because everyone was affected, whether
it was the people at home and tot had their
hold their day interrupted and make cold showers or whatever,
all that sort of thing. So that way everyone gets
benefits because everyone uses power.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah, right, and and so talk to us. How you
think that the discount would actually work. Would it be
like a percentage thing?

Speaker 8 (01:11:32):
Yeah, well they say they charged so much a unit
of power to transmit the power up here, and we
just lower that cost and then and then the retailers
will pass it on. And low, I heard your comments earlier,
someone's comments. Low behold any retailer that refused to pass
it on or didn't will I think that would be
not be very good pr for them?

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
No, no, it wouldn't. So you're a national MP grant.
You're in government, correct, Can you do more about this
than just writing a letter?

Speaker 8 (01:12:02):
Ultimately? As you would realize? Transpowers and the SOE. So
they operate at arms length from the government, so to speak.
So they've got an independent board and a c with
a CEO, and that's who I've written to. And so
can we directly tell them to instruct them? No, it's
over to them to actually do it. That's my understanding.
It's how the SE model works.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
What does Sime and Brown think of the suggestion.

Speaker 8 (01:12:23):
Well, he encouraged me to write to be a good
locally and p and right on their behalf. But ultimately
he's he's like he is a minister, but he's he's
got to care what yeah yeah, yeah, he can't control
what the board says.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
No, no, no, he certainly can't. You know what, Grant.
The thing is that the person who is usually in
the slot on Newstalks, he'd been Heather has had a
bit of a back and forth. Shall we say when
it comes to Transpower, I can I think you know
we're all about combine our moments in this business. How
about this? How about Transpower agrees to your suggestion all
Northlanders get discounted transmission fees for a year. But how

(01:13:01):
about the boss of Transpower announces this on Hither Depolicy
Allen Show, on News Talks ZB. Wouldn't they be perfect?
Then everyone can come.

Speaker 8 (01:13:09):
Back together, absolutely perfect, guess exactly what they should do
it in Suddenly all will be forgiven that there won't
be any you'll be no more clown music on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
More Careful Grime. We're going to reserve the right to
make any any decisions when it comes to the production
music on our show. Hey, thank you so much, you
take care. Great to chat. That is Northland MP Grant
McCall and there would be the perfect PR one for everyone?
Would it not? Perfect PR one? Thirteen minutes past six
you with Jack Tam on News Talks B.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Crunching the numbers and getting the results. It's Heather Duplicy
Allen with the Business Hours thanks to my HR, the
HR platform for SME on News Talks EDB. Whether it's macro,
micro or just playing economics, it's all on the Business
Hour with Jack tam and my HR, the HR platform
for SME News talks IB.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
First liquid report into the iconic Auckland Restaurant SPQR has
been issued today. SPQR owes more than two million dollars.
It owes IID almost one and a half million in
payroll taxes and GST staff roded one hundred and forty
five thousand dollars in wages his holiday pay. Liam Van
is The Herald's Business editor at large and as with us,
get Aliam. Hey, Jack, this is pretty ugly, right, Yeah, like.

Speaker 22 (01:14:22):
So this is you know, obviously SPQR is a shock
and there's some things going on there. But yeah, what
we're hearing is really more and more from the hospitality
sector that there are a number of probably quite I
don't know, word iconics overused but well established Auckland institutions
that are really on the brink at the moment. They're
really struggling.

Speaker 14 (01:14:42):
You know.

Speaker 22 (01:14:43):
I heard from the owner of Vivaci that that she's
she's concerned. They're trying to get a sort of a
campaign going because you know, they've struggled through COVID and
the lockdowns and all that stuff, and then they've run
into this, you know, suppose to be a rebound out
of that, and of course they run into this wall
of high costs and high interest rates keeping people at home,

(01:15:08):
and so you know, we know, I look at the
data and it's I think the A and Z card
spinning data showed that restaurants and bars were down about
six point three percent in the last year. Now, that's
that's nominal spending. So even you know that all their
costs are on top of that, and so if you've
got high debt and you've got cash, you know, but you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Just spin's going down, costs going up. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 22 (01:15:30):
In fact, I looked at the nominal spend on all
hospitality according to stats n Z in the last quarter
was it's exactly the same number that it was pre COVID,
So that's like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Flatlining, no accounting for inflation, no accounting.

Speaker 22 (01:15:45):
For costs and all that stuff. So these businesses are
going backwards. The owners are often not paying themselves a
wage at this point. And of course we all we're
all getting excited now, we're going, oh, we can see
the interest rates are going to come down, and there's
light at end of the tunnel. But we know from
previous economic cycles that business liquidations, unemployment, you know, the

(01:16:07):
credit credit crunch stuff, and mortgage de saales, these these
bits of data lag, so it's almost worse. You start
to start to hear the market start talking about all
the good news and there are still some people really
struggling out there, and that's what we're at the moment really.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
So to mean, two million dollars is a lot that's
been building for some time. What are the liquid to
say about their plan for the company selling off a
seats and stuff.

Speaker 22 (01:16:31):
Yeah, yeah, look, I'm not completely across what happens next there.
I think you know, you look at that amount of
money though, and you've got to wonder whether really they've
held on too long just just but you know, SPQR
it feels like something that just was sort of meant
to be there. It's a sort of an institution. As
long as I've been in Auckland, which is since about

(01:16:51):
the time that it started early nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Are you were always there with your flash suits? Well no,
not quite.

Speaker 22 (01:16:56):
I remember going in the nineties and feeling hopelessly out
of my depth. You know, it was such a big
deal to go in there and there be a shortened
street star and you know, probably probably probably carry with
them there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Yeah it should be the first to a better I'm sure.

Speaker 22 (01:17:10):
Yeah, but yeah, no, it's you know, but so there's
there's two things. There is a cyclical thing and there
is a structural thing. You know, people do change bars
and restaurants to cycle over. They will go to new places,
and there is obviously a lot of turnover in that sector.
But I guess the message is if you're you know,
we're going to go out and about spring is going

(01:17:30):
to come along, everyone's going to feel better, the interest
rates are going to come down. You want to go
out to your local bar. It just might not be
there if if you can't get out and support them
in the next few months.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
And I know that this isn't necessarily the suggestion, but
I mean that they're unlikely to get much help from
central government.

Speaker 22 (01:17:44):
Right, No, and I don't think I don't suppose they
they particularly want it at this point because you know,
it's there isn't anything that the government can do. It's
really down to people getting out and because let's face
at the government and the Reserve Bank are trying to
put a curb on spending. Yeah, that switch, will you
know that will It'll change, It'll change. There's going to

(01:18:07):
be a flick of that switch. But it just may
come too late for some of these businesses.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Hey, thanks for your time, Len, I appreciate it. New
Zealand Herald Business eres Through at Large Liam Dan twenty
one past six on newstik z'db.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
You a rural report on the Heather duper c Eland
Drive with Ann's Kofoods, New Zealand's Finest Beef and Lamb.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
And hosts of the Country. Jamie McKay is with us
this evening. He had Change Jones on the show today. Jamie,
how is he rolling out his PGF two point zero?

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
Yeah, Well that's what it is. He's only got one
point two billion this time. Around jack as peanutter. Yeah, peanuts.
He had three billion to splash around last time under Cinder,
So we'll see how he goes. And well, I guess
on your show today you've gone from one Great Northland MP,
my old mate Grant mcnational, to Shane Jones. So Marta,
Shane the Prince of the province. As he's off on

(01:18:57):
a series of summits around the region, fifteen of them.
He's got that one point two billion dollars to spend
in the regions to improve productivity. He wants to grow
and strengthen the economy. These summits are going to take
place over the next six to eight months and I
think the first one is in Nelson on August the twelfth.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see. I
mean it is, it has to be said, so much
more focused than the first iteration of the PDF, which
is not a high hurdle to check. Yeah, but yeah,
you know, it's going to be very interesting to see
how that has rolled out. Now the primary sector is
going to have to rely on new tools and technologies
in order to lower its emissions if it is to
hit targets outlined in the government's newly released draft emissions

(01:19:40):
reduction plan.

Speaker 5 (01:19:41):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:19:42):
And as you alluded to, Jack Shane Jones was on
the country today and he wasn't having a bar of
decarbonization if it meant de industrialization. And here's what he
had to say.

Speaker 15 (01:19:55):
We're going to be very careful that decarbonization doesn't become
de industrializedation. But these green hobbits are not going to
be permitted by New Zealand. First New Zealand to undermine
the existence of our industry. We have the ability to
achieve net net climate change positive outcomes. This motion that

(01:20:17):
you have to cut down every chimney stack and that
you have to close down industry to enjoy some green
nirvana when India, when China are building coal fired power
stations every day. In my view, leavest bear the falsehoods
of that Green Party. But most importantly, I'm never going
to worship at the altar of climate change gods.

Speaker 21 (01:20:39):
If you want God, go to church.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
So there you go, Jack, That's what Martua Shane had
to say. And of course we're talking about the government's
newly released draft emissions reduction plan and that they reaffirmed
when they released this their commitment to price emissions in
agricultural for the agricultural sector, should I say thirty, so
there's no free lunch there beyond twenty thirty. Some of

(01:21:04):
the tools shed And this is one of the issues
that farmers had.

Speaker 5 (01:21:06):
Jack.

Speaker 4 (01:21:07):
They're saying, we want to do it, we want to
reduce our emissions, but give us some tools to do it,
and things like low methane, sheep genetics, vaccines, you name it.
All these things that are coming onto the market. They're
expecting some of these new tools may be available to
New Zealand pasture based farmers from twenty seven twenty eight
and the other one. And this is Shane's solution. He

(01:21:28):
would just keep planting trees till he got to a
carbon neutral sort of situation. The government's keen to partner
with the private sector to plant trees. This includes native
forestation on crown Land. Wonderful idea, but trouble with native
forest Jack, for anyone who's tried to establish them, they're slow.
They take a lot of tender love and care, as

(01:21:49):
opposed to a dirty older or shouldn't say a dirty
old an exotic pine tree. You can plunk them in
the ground and away they go. It's instant gratification. Natives
aren't that easy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
No, they're certainly not. Thanks Jamie appreciate it as ever.
That is Jamie McKay who is the host of the
Country Jack. If we cut Northland's power bills via transpower,
if Northland has its transmission cuts, costs cut, very simple,
says Ben. The rest of us around the rest of
the country will be paying the shortfall. Jack to Northan

(01:22:19):
doesn't grant understand that retailers will just pass these costs
on to them. Fine, have your compensation, but except you'll
be paying more consistently in the long term in order
to accommodate it. Thank you for your feedback. If you
want to flick us a text message, the easy thing
to do is to tect it to ninety two ninety
two after six point thirty, we will take you to
the UK and as well as that we will ask

(01:22:42):
just how many cuts we're going to need to see
to the ocr before we get the full way that
those cuts in interest rates. News is Next to You
with Jack Tame on News Dog ZB.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Everything from SMEs to the big corporates of a Business
Hour with Jack Tame and my HR, the HR platform.

Speaker 3 (01:23:01):
For sme us talk said by for the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Donald Trump speaks tomorrow at the Republican National Committee Committee
Republican National Conference in Wisconsin. I think maybe the most
interesting thing that happened today of everything, was not JD
Vance's vice presidential pick speaking, but it was the fact
that the head of the Secret Service turned up at
the RANCA and was chased by some Republican Congress people

(01:23:40):
ended up corying them the toilets. They didn't follow into
the toilets, but apparently ended up carrying in the toilets.
I mean, quite reasonably. A lot of questions being demanded
of the Secret Service right now. It will be remarkable
to me if there's not some sort of Senate inquiry
or something into the Secret Service and their failings to
keep Donald Trump safe. But yeah, pretty but I'm pretty
bold move for the head of the Secret Service to

(01:24:01):
actually turn up at the RNC this week. I would
have thought that anyway, ended up carrying the toilets for
our effort. So there you go. Right now, it's twenty
four to seven, Jack Team in time to catch up
with Sam Dicky from Fisher Funds. Get a Sam.

Speaker 7 (01:24:12):
Hey, Jack, Hey, we want to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
Yeah, very good, thanks, talk to you a little bit
about AI. Obviously, so much hype ever since chat GPT
launched in twenty twenty two. A lot of hype baked
into stock prices. But there's a fundamental question when it
comes to investments, right, can the reality actually live up
to the hype?

Speaker 7 (01:24:34):
That's right, Yes, there is what Yeah, I didn't notice
that was the question. Yeah, I agree with you. And
there is a lot of hype around animal spirits or
irrational exuberance, and people are obviously excited that AI is
going to change the way with business, the way we search,
how we interact with companies, and the marker is convinced
a few companies are going to make literally trillions it

(01:24:54):
offers out of that. And I think it was Roy Emara,
who's a futurist, don't if you know me, futurist Jack
unfortunately said, we typically overestimate new technologies in the short
term and underestimate them in the long term, and only
eighteen to twenty months into the modern AI era, we're
most definitely in the short term at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Yeah, yeah, that's a very interesting content day. And there
are lots of other technologies in the past, where that
is certainly born out over time. So can you paint
a bit of a picture for us about the hype
around AI. The moment gives some numbers for context.

Speaker 7 (01:25:27):
Yeah, So I guess the bluntest and simplest number is
we can just see how much, you know, market capitalization
or stock market valuation creation has been in it a
handful of stocks, So we'll take in video obviously, Apple, TSMC,
Advanced Micro broad Common Microsoft. So I think that's half
a dozen stocks. And that's a combination of AI chip designers,

(01:25:48):
AI chip manufacturers, and AI software sellers, so the people
who are using the chips to sell software to you
and I. And so since, as you said, chat ept
was launched, which kind of kicked off the modern our era,
their market capitalization or valuations have gone up by over
ten trillion New Zealand dollars. And it's only half a
dozen companies. And of course all that ten trillion is

(01:26:11):
related to this AI phenomenon, but a decent chunk of
it is. And imagine the you know, the tens of
thousands of other companies that are out there that are
either listed on the stock market or they're unlisted startups
that have had their valuations soar too, so quite a
bit of enthusiasm out there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
So it's interesting though, like when you when you list
those companies, it's the it's the classic like the people
getting rich at the moment or the companies getting rich
are generally the ones selling picks and shovels, not the
ones selling the goal.

Speaker 7 (01:26:40):
Right, well, the picks and shovels are the I guess
it's yeah, yeah, But back in the day that you
sell the you pet on the picks and shovels who
are providing the picks and shovels the gold miners in
today's parlance, or in an AI world, the picks and
shovels the cloud providers like Amazon and Microsoft and Google

(01:27:05):
who are providing the compute capacity for people to build
their gold mines on. But in reality, on the ground,
there's just not that much revenue out there that's been
generated on the back of these chips. And in other words,
you and I are not really prepared to pay that
much yet for this new phenomenon. And you think about Post,
a child of the AI revolution. So open AI created

(01:27:28):
a chat GPT. The annualized revenue today from selling their
AI models is less than four billion dollars so far.
So think about that ten trillion I've talked about before,
a little bit of a yawning gap.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's massive, So talk to us just a
bit more about about what is baked into the stocks
at the stage.

Speaker 7 (01:27:46):
So there's ten trillion, that's the blunders. But I guess
another way to think about it is if you add
up all of these accelerated compute chips or AI chips
that have been been sold by in Video and others
to customers who are now desperate to get a return
on their investment and create new killer applications to sell
to you and I to justify the cost of these chips.

(01:28:07):
If you edit up all of that, we really need
to see today about trillion dollars KEIW of revenue stemming
from these new application today. So one marker in the
sanders open AI the post of Child's generating four billion.
But if I add up all the AI revenue streams today,
you don't even get to one hundred billion dollars. So

(01:28:29):
we're still sort of nine hundred billion short.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
Yeah, not even a tenth. How do you marry those
things up?

Speaker 7 (01:28:36):
The wanting gap that's tricky. So we need one of
two things to happen. I guess we need someone to
launch or discover a new killer AI application that we're
all prepared to pay for and pretty quickly jack because
the market is losing patients, or we need these AI
stocks to fall in value. It just has to be
one of those two things.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Yeah, right, right, So how should we think about all
of this from investors? How should investors be thinking about this?

Speaker 7 (01:29:04):
I think it means we're in for a bit of
a bumpy ride, head. I mean, just remember that comment
is you know, even for an AI ball, we overestimated
technology in the short term and underestimated in the long term,
and we are and we need a peak of the
early hype cycle eighteen months and so be ready for
a bumpy ride. If you are a long term AI bill, well,
then make sure you have some dry powder or in

(01:29:24):
other words, some cash on the sidelines, because there will
inevitably be, as there always is with new technologies, an
air pocket. So make sure you've got some dry power.

Speaker 5 (01:29:34):
They're ready to go.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Yeah, it'll be interesting actually, just to see how the
end of this year in the US election kind of
affects some of these stocks, right, because you think about
especially with the big Taiwanese chip market, and what a
Donald Trump presidency might mean, or the volatility of a
Trump presidency might mean for some of the trade relationships
between the US and these big producers could be very interesting,

(01:29:57):
very much.

Speaker 7 (01:29:58):
We saw someone that last night. We saw a Trump
sort of tape bomb and a lot of these companies
lost sort of six seven, eight, nine percent of the
value geopolitics is going to be writ large.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
Yeah, I mean that's crazy volatility. That is just nuts, right,
that he can just do that and then it does
six to seven percent.

Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
God, Yes, he.

Speaker 7 (01:30:19):
Had an amazing power with his tweets.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
Yeah, I mean it goes both ways. Let's be honest.
You know, it's like the volatility goes both ways. Hey,
thank you so much. Sam, Really appreciate it. Sam, Dicky
Beer from Fisher Funds. Right now it is eighteen minutes
to seven. You have a Jacktam on News dogs EB.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
If it's to do with money, it matters to you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
The Business Hour with Jack Tam and my HR the
HR platform for SME NEUSTORGSB.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Pretty foggy in the nine Yeah, if you are just
heading out in Auckland this evening and you haven't looked
outside the window already, be prepared to go relatively slowly.
Most of the roads aren't too bad at the moment,
but yeah, not for the first time. Over the last
couple of weeks. Fog is enveloping parts of our biggest
city and probably expected to last most of tonight. There

(01:31:06):
could be some more flight delays at Oakland Airport as well.
We'll make sure to keep you up to date on
news Talk Seed Beam. Right now, it is fourteen minutes
to seven and time to catch up with the UK
correspondent in the Brady get in.

Speaker 21 (01:31:15):
There, Ayjack, Good to speak to you again, you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
Too, Just tell us about these breats. A couple of
Brits have been found shot dead in a burnt out
car in Sweden.

Speaker 21 (01:31:27):
Yeah, big murder mystery. So the carriage, transpires was actually
hired at Copenhagen Airport in Denmark. There is a five
mile bridge that spans so you can basically pick up
a vehicle in Denmark and drive to Sweden five miles
of a bridge and then you're into the town of
city of Malmo in southern Sweden. So the sequence of

(01:31:49):
events is that Swedish police the other night found a
burnt out vehicle. Upon closer inspection there was human remains.
There was two male bodies in the vehicle. The vehicle
have been born out and there are reports in Sweden
that the bodies had gunshot wounds. Now the cops have
obviously been able to trace the identity the plate on
the car back to the airport in Denmark and it

(01:32:13):
has been hired by two Brits. Now this has gone
huge in Europe's big murder mystery. Who are the victims?
And then a couple of families in North London reported
two men missing who had gone on holidays. They work
as travel agents in North London and the men had
said to their families that they were going on a
business trip to Europe and they would be home to

(01:32:35):
watch the European Soccer Final England against Spain on Sunday night.
They never came home. So police are joining up the
dots and it looks like the two dead Brits are
these travel agents from North London. It is quite a
murky story because where the vehicle was found is an
area that is right with gangland crime in Sweden. Would

(01:32:58):
you believe so there's a lot not kind of making
sense at the moment. I'm sure the police know a
lot more than we're being told. But two families in
London in mourning and a murder mystery in Sweden.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
Yeah, how strange. And I mean we often don't think
of gangs and organized crime being that prominent in this
part of the world, but obviously that's a concern. So
there's no word at the stage into as to a
possible motive or anything like that.

Speaker 21 (01:33:31):
No, nothing. But I think the Swedish angle is interesting
in that Sweden has a serious issue with gun crime
and it has some gangs in Stockholm and in Malmo
they do have organized crime groups. So the question is
I'm sure detectives would be asking what were two travel
agents from North London doing in an industrial area of

(01:33:55):
a southern Swedish city where gangs have been known to
do business before. It's doesn't make sense, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Very intriguing. Yeah, I'm very sad. The EU is very,
very very angry with the Hungarian PM for meeting with
Putin Sheening and Donald Trump.

Speaker 21 (01:34:13):
Yes, and Zelensky as well, so he's undertaken. Victor Orban
is the Prime Minister of Hungary. He is a right
wing leader, sees himself as a big strong man. The
problem that EU has is that he's very close to
Vladimir Putin. He's also a big supporter of Donald Trump.
Would you believe he's extremely well connected. And the rotating
presidency of the European Union as of last week for

(01:34:36):
the next six months is in the hands of Hungary.
And Auban's very first thing to do was he got
on a plane. He went to Tiev where he met Zelensky,
he went to Moscow where he met Putin, g who believed,
went to mar A Lago and sat down with Donald Trump.
Now the European Union have sent him a letter today

(01:34:58):
which has been leaked to the papers, making it clear
he does not speak for the European Union and to
reign it in.

Speaker 5 (01:35:05):
Now.

Speaker 21 (01:35:06):
Auburn has responded by calling a foreign minister's meeting in
Budapest in Hungary at the end of August, and the
European Union is responding by saying that actually we're having
our own foreign ministers meeting in Brussels. That's where everyone
needs to be. So a lot of friction at the
heart of the European Union right.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
Now, doesn't this all just play into Victor Aubin's hands, though.

Speaker 21 (01:35:31):
It does to an extent. But look, he's embarked on
what they're calling freelance diplomacy. You know, the European Union
is what twenty seven members states, and he's just decided
to go wheakling around the world, shaking hands with people.
And I think ultimately he's trying to make himself out
to be the peacemaker. But the suspicion in Europe is that,

(01:35:51):
you know, this is a guy who blocked out for Ukraine.
This is a guy who has been a thorn in
the side of the European Union for years. And the
presidency normally is just a figurehead role. You know, you
get to have some nice meetings, host people in your country,
show off the nice parts of your country for tourism
purposes and to the media. And he's making it all

(01:36:11):
about himself.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
And in the Kiostama has welcomed the Irish Prime Minister
with the pinder Guinness.

Speaker 21 (01:36:19):
Yes, so this would have been unheard of just a
couple of weeks ago, the change of regime in London.
It's like a breath of fresh air. We've seen Starmer
reaching out to Europe. We've seen him meeting officials, talking
to President Macron of France as a friend. Liz Trust
said she didn't know whether he was a friend or
an enemy. And it's hard to believe what we've been

(01:36:39):
through in recent years here in terms of lack of leaders.
Who has been falling out with your neighbors. There is
no reason in twenty twenty four that the leaders of
Britain and Ireland cannot be friends. We have so much
in common. I'm an Irish person who's lived in England
thirty one years. I have children born here. There are
so many English people living in Ireland. We have so

(01:37:01):
much in common. We have more in common than divides us.
But for the best part of fourteen years, I would
say the leaders of Ireland and the UK have not
been friends, have not been in a good situation. And
Starmer in week two has invited the tea shock or
Prime Minister of Ireland Simon Harris over. They stayed in

(01:37:21):
Checkers last night and Starmer put a picture up on
social media of the two of them on the terraces
Checkers in Buckinghamshire drinking pints of guinness. You know, it's
the way forward. Friendship, reach out to your nearest neighbors
and be good neighbors as opposed to this constant conservative
rhetoric of just hating the French and the Irish, shall

(01:37:42):
forget about them. You know, Starmer, I think he's had
an impressive fortnite.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
Yeah, yeah, Does anyone have a problem with us with
him like reaching out to the Irish promise for all.

Speaker 7 (01:37:53):
Yeah, not in the slightest.

Speaker 21 (01:37:56):
I don't think anyone should have a problem with us.
I mean, there are so many common issue in Europe
right now. First of all, migration and all these people
who want to come to the UK, many of them
are now coming over to Ireland. You know, Ireland's are
proud member of the European Union. And I think Starmer
is basically rebuilding bridges that have been not just broken

(01:38:17):
burnt by the likes of Boris Johnson and Liz Tross.

Speaker 5 (01:38:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
Ah, very good, Thank you. Inda. That is UK correspondent
in the Brady right now. It is seven to seven.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
Whether it's macro, micro or just playing economics, it's all
on the Business Hour with Heather Duplicy Ellen and my HR.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
The HR platform for SME US talks.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
It b the it is almost us for our time
to give it this afternoon. Thank you very much for
your ticks and emails, all your communications. Darcy Waldergrave is
going to be taking you through this evening on Sports Talk.
He's going to have a catch up with Justin Marshall.
They will break down at All Backs starting fifteen for
what feels like Lesbie as it's a pretty weird test

(01:39:01):
San Diego this Saturday afternoon, even just saying that the
All Backs playing in San Diego? Oh cool? Are they're
playing Usa?

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
Nah?

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
They're playing Fiji in San Diego? Oh okay? Is it
the American winter?

Speaker 7 (01:39:12):
Nah?

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Now it's just the middle of the American summer. Cool Okay,
nice hard ground yep. Anyway, he's gonna be talking to
Justin Marshall about the Allbacks team for that after seven
o'clock on Sports Talk. I'm back with you tomorrow afternoon
from four o'clock. Tell then what have you chosen?

Speaker 23 (01:39:31):
Nance set fire to the rain by Adele to play
us out tonight. Jack Adele is going to have a
break or some time off or whatever that looks like
when you're a pop star. She has said she's wanting
you to take things easy for a while, spend quality
time with Rich Paul, who's a partner, and her eleven
year old son Angelo, And she has no plans for
any new music at all, but she said like she
will make another album at some point in the future

(01:39:51):
and she'll do a big tour and stuff then, but
just don't expect it for anytime soon. Something tells me
that Adele has crossed that threshold where she's making money
when she sleeps, she's probably going to be okay, probably
doesn't need to be churning.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
Out too many albums or tours, right, But you'd hope
she still enjoys doing that. I'm sure you'd hope she
enjoys doing it. She doesn't need to do it to
the point. Yeah, yeah, very good. Thanks thanks to Laura
for putting visas on the show together. I will see
you tomorrow afternoon. US is next on News Talks.

Speaker 5 (01:40:17):
He'd be.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive. Listen live to
News Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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