July 22, 2024 • 7 mins
The Government is strongly opposing proposed changes to infant formula laws.
Minister from Australia and New Zealand will meet this week to discuss a 400-page proposal, which would overhaul baby formula regulation - including labelling laws.
Some groups fear it would cause plain-packaging and cripple New Zealand's exports.
Finance Minister Nicola Willis says the impacts would be too severe.
"There is no way that we can support a provision which would wipe potentially $2 billion of export revenue away."
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nichola Willis is the Finance minister. Hein Nikola, Hi, Heather,
are you happy for those fairies to keep running for
another five years?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, as you will have seen, Ebie Rail have today
published their expert advice that got from the world experts
in boats, and they say that those boats are actually
in pretty good condition. They're doing better than you would
expect at this point, and they say with good maintenance
and good operation, they can operate for several more years.
My focus is on making sure that they do maintain
(00:30):
them really well and that we do have replacements sorted out.
And I'm confident.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, well, I mean it's not very and I know
they say they're operationally safe, but it's not very reassuring
to hear they're close to opso lessoned parts of them
and difficult to repair.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, look, I think all of us have had that
experience with something before, and Kiwi Rail's responsibility is to
make sure every time those fairies bull on the water
with passengers in them, that they are one hundred percent
confident they are safe.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Isn't that the problem? Well, isn't that the problem? Because
what we've been shown time and time again is that
they're difficult to repair, and then you find out kee
We Rail has badly repaired them using tape they shouldn't
have have used in the things fallen apart.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, as ministers, we have made it crystal clear that
our expectation is that Kiwi Row does everything possible. That
includes what it spends on maintenance, that includes the decisions
it takes to ensure that those ships are safe.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so we can.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Spectation, reset, we can we have the replacements that they
will well, we have been given confidence that we can
get replacements here well ahead of that twenty twenty nine date.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, how well ahead, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Have announcements to make about that in due course. We're
just working through those options and we will have more
say about it. How soon, soon enough that we will
when we know that there is a lot of interest
in us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The last time I spoke to you, which was like
maybe two or three weeks ago, you said that it
could potentially be in the next three months.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It hasn't changed.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well. Look, the last government fell into a terrible mistake
which was made a quick decision, which was the wrong decision,
and we want to be in a position as a
government where we make a sensible decision that will pay
off the New Zealanders over the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Listener, were going to support the Aussies when we get
the food ministers get together on Thursday on the infant
formula thing.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
There is no way that we can support a provision
which would wipe potentially two billion dollars of export revenue away.
So we will not be supporting that regulation. Our exporters
are too important and we will be seeking a review
of those rules when Food ministers meet in Adelaide this week.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
How keen are the Aussies on it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, look, my understanding is that then are of a
mind to support it, but they have a much smaller
infant formula industry than we do. For us, this is
a multi billion dollar issue for them. There's to potentially
a few hundred millions at stake, and ultimately this comes
down to are we competitives with those Europeans and others
who produce them for formula and we're not prepared as
(03:08):
listers to put our industry in a position where they're
facing much harder rules than our competitors internationally are. That's ridiculous,
that's cutting off our nose Despite our face and we
will be setting a review.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Niicola, what's your take as a mum on what is
going on here with the kind of demonizing of infant
formula so that people go to breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
My take on a mum is, even as a mum,
even with the best will in the world, there will
always be some of us who for some reason I
can't breastfeed at a particular point, or who choose not to.
That is life, that is reality. I was really fortunate
I was able to breastfeed all of my children. But boy,
oh boy, did I need infant formula to supplement? Yes?
(03:50):
I do, and that does not make me carerible. What
I want to know is that the infant formula I'm
giving my baby is safe.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's actually New.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Zealand Infant Formula providers cre safe infant formula and that's
what at stakes, and we shouldn't get so overboard that
we demonize infant formula or the mothers and families who
use it too.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Right now, listen, how many more of these court cases
from the unions are you expecting over public service dismissals?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, the advice that I've had is that this will
not affect the vast majority of public sector restructures because
this clause is only found in a few contracts, and
I'm confident that the Ministry of Education and other affected
agencies will be able to continue with your restructure once
the legal obligations have been met.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How many other affected agencies are there?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, I've been advised that the Public Service Commission is
looking at that, but it's less than half a dozen
potential contracts which are at stakes, because of course, way
agency might have several contracts and only some of those
will contain this particular clause.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Okay, and do we know which agencies?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes, I have had advice about that, and of course,
in each instance there's still the opportunity for those agencies
to reflect on the findings of the Employment Authority and
make sure they take those findings into account as they
conduct their restructuring processes. It's our expectation that all employers
follow the law, and that includes government employers.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Can you tell us which agencies?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I understand that the Ministry for Social Development and all
raunger Tamariki are among them.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, So you guys, I just saw it come through
about an hour ago. You guys are expected to apologize
are you after the release of that Royal Commission of
Inquiry into State care abuse?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Look, that report will be released on Wednesday. That will
be a very important day. I had been some time
over the weekend reading portions of their purporter. It's more
than three thousand pages of total. Its findings are extremely significant.
The stories it tells are really harrowing, and we will
(05:55):
be taking great care as a government on Wednesday and
in the weeks and months following to respond to it appropriately.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So are you apologizing on Wednesday or sometime thereafter?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
We want to make sure that any Crown apology is
offered when all affected survivors are able to be there.
We want to make sure that it's done in an
appropriate way in consultation with those survivors. So on Wednesday
we will offer our response. It's a very significant day,
but it would not be the setting for the formal apology.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Niicola, Can we actually stop the stuff from happening? Though?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We have an obligation to ensure that when people are
being looked after by the state, we have taken steps
to ensure that they are safe, that there are independent
oversights to look at their safety, that when they make
complaints they are taken seriously, and I am convinced by
(06:53):
what I have read that there is much more that
we can do and should have done in the past.
And will there still be individual human beings who are
bad people? Yes, that is a fact. But can we
make sure our systems are better? Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Nicola, thank you very much. I really appreciate Nichola Willis,
the Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive,
Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Nichola Willis is the Finance minister. Hein Nikola, Hi, Heather,
are you happy for those fairies to keep running for
another five years?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, as you will have seen, Ebie Rail have today
published their expert advice that got from the world experts
in boats, and they say that those boats are actually
in pretty good condition. They're doing better than you would
expect at this point, and they say with good maintenance
and good operation, they can operate for several more years.
My focus is on making sure that they do maintain
(00:30):
them really well and that we do have replacements sorted out.
And I'm confident.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, well, I mean it's not very and I know
they say they're operationally safe, but it's not very reassuring
to hear they're close to opso lessoned parts of them
and difficult to repair.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, look, I think all of us have had that
experience with something before, and Kiwi Rail's responsibility is to
make sure every time those fairies bull on the water
with passengers in them, that they are one hundred percent
confident they are safe.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Isn't that the problem? Well, isn't that the problem? Because
what we've been shown time and time again is that
they're difficult to repair, and then you find out kee
We Rail has badly repaired them using tape they shouldn't
have have used in the things fallen apart.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, as ministers, we have made it crystal clear that
our expectation is that Kiwi Row does everything possible. That
includes what it spends on maintenance, that includes the decisions
it takes to ensure that those ships are safe.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, so we can.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Spectation, reset, we can we have the replacements that they
will well, we have been given confidence that we can
get replacements here well ahead of that twenty twenty nine date.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, how well ahead, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Have announcements to make about that in due course. We're
just working through those options and we will have more
say about it. How soon, soon enough that we will
when we know that there is a lot of interest
in us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
The last time I spoke to you, which was like
maybe two or three weeks ago, you said that it
could potentially be in the next three months.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It hasn't changed.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well. Look, the last government fell into a terrible mistake
which was made a quick decision, which was the wrong decision,
and we want to be in a position as a
government where we make a sensible decision that will pay
off the New Zealanders over the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Listener, were going to support the Aussies when we get
the food ministers get together on Thursday on the infant
formula thing.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
There is no way that we can support a provision
which would wipe potentially two billion dollars of export revenue away.
So we will not be supporting that regulation. Our exporters
are too important and we will be seeking a review
of those rules when Food ministers meet in Adelaide this week.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
How keen are the Aussies on it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, look, my understanding is that then are of a
mind to support it, but they have a much smaller
infant formula industry than we do. For us, this is
a multi billion dollar issue for them. There's to potentially
a few hundred millions at stake, and ultimately this comes
down to are we competitives with those Europeans and others
who produce them for formula and we're not prepared as
(03:08):
listers to put our industry in a position where they're
facing much harder rules than our competitors internationally are. That's ridiculous,
that's cutting off our nose Despite our face and we
will be setting a review.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Niicola, what's your take as a mum on what is
going on here with the kind of demonizing of infant
formula so that people go to breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
My take on a mum is, even as a mum,
even with the best will in the world, there will
always be some of us who for some reason I
can't breastfeed at a particular point, or who choose not to.
That is life, that is reality. I was really fortunate
I was able to breastfeed all of my children. But boy,
oh boy, did I need infant formula to supplement? Yes?
(03:50):
I do, and that does not make me carerible. What
I want to know is that the infant formula I'm
giving my baby is safe.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's actually New.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Zealand Infant Formula providers cre safe infant formula and that's
what at stakes, and we shouldn't get so overboard that
we demonize infant formula or the mothers and families who
use it too.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Right now, listen, how many more of these court cases
from the unions are you expecting over public service dismissals?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, the advice that I've had is that this will
not affect the vast majority of public sector restructures because
this clause is only found in a few contracts, and
I'm confident that the Ministry of Education and other affected
agencies will be able to continue with your restructure once
the legal obligations have been met.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How many other affected agencies are there?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, I've been advised that the Public Service Commission is
looking at that, but it's less than half a dozen
potential contracts which are at stakes, because of course, way
agency might have several contracts and only some of those
will contain this particular clause.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Okay, and do we know which agencies?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yes, I have had advice about that, and of course,
in each instance there's still the opportunity for those agencies
to reflect on the findings of the Employment Authority and
make sure they take those findings into account as they
conduct their restructuring processes. It's our expectation that all employers
follow the law, and that includes government employers.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Can you tell us which agencies?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I understand that the Ministry for Social Development and all
raunger Tamariki are among them.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, So you guys, I just saw it come through
about an hour ago. You guys are expected to apologize
are you after the release of that Royal Commission of
Inquiry into State care abuse?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Look, that report will be released on Wednesday. That will
be a very important day. I had been some time
over the weekend reading portions of their purporter. It's more
than three thousand pages of total. Its findings are extremely significant.
The stories it tells are really harrowing, and we will
(05:55):
be taking great care as a government on Wednesday and
in the weeks and months following to respond to it appropriately.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So are you apologizing on Wednesday or sometime thereafter?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
We want to make sure that any Crown apology is
offered when all affected survivors are able to be there.
We want to make sure that it's done in an
appropriate way in consultation with those survivors. So on Wednesday
we will offer our response. It's a very significant day,
but it would not be the setting for the formal apology.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Niicola, Can we actually stop the stuff from happening? Though?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We have an obligation to ensure that when people are
being looked after by the state, we have taken steps
to ensure that they are safe, that there are independent
oversights to look at their safety, that when they make
complaints they are taken seriously, and I am convinced by
(06:53):
what I have read that there is much more that
we can do and should have done in the past.
And will there still be individual human beings who are
bad people? Yes, that is a fact. But can we
make sure our systems are better? Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Nicola, thank you very much. I really appreciate Nichola Willis,
the Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive,
Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!