David Seymour: ACT Leader responds to Sir John Key's criticism of Treaty Principles Bill

Act's leader's standing by his controversial Treaty Principles Bill, under criticism from Sir John Key.

At National's conference in the weekend, the former Prime Minister said the temperature should be turned down on race relations.

He suggested the Bill isn't workable, because the principles of Te Tiriti change over time.

David Seymour told Heather du Plessis-Allan problems need open discussion.

He says the Bill is about what the founding document really means, and will find out how to make New Zealand a place for all.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sir John Key is calling for the temperature to be
turned down on race relations in this country. He believes
that the Treaty Principal's Bill is not going to work
and it's wound people up. The bill, of course, has
been championed by the ACT Party and the leader David Seymour.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Is with us.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Now, Hey, David, did you hear John Key this morning?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh? I did? I did, And I was immediately transported
back to twenty sixteen when the biggest issues in New
Zealand we should we turn our flag into a tetail?
And can John Key get to and is from China
to live at Wellington Do? And they were much happier
in simpler times, which is why I have fond memories

(00:37):
of John. I like John because it's pretty much impossible
not to, and I even play charity goldfoot them every year.
But I think we've also got to be honest with ourselves.
While they were happier and some of the times, many
of the problems the government is facing today were accumulating
and part of the reason that the people have elected
a different government, this time a coalition, as they know

(01:00):
that some of these problems actually need to be openly
and honestly discussed.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Do you agree with him moment? I think few of
us would agree, But do you agree, would would disagree?
Do you agree with him that the temperature needs to
be taken down on the race relations stuff at the moment?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well, I certainly object to some of the rhetoric that
we even just in recent weeks, particularly about my colleague
Karen Schuler. I don't think it's ever acceptable to say
that somebody you know is not the type of person
for their race or vice versa. It's certainly not acceptable
for some journalists to ask the question, maybe users of

(01:38):
that because of your policies. I would like to think though,
that the way that has done the debate about the Treaty,
as we've said, look, this is about what does our
founding document rarely mean? How can we ensure that it
creates a modern, multi ethnic, liberal democratic society with a
place for all? And actually way that the Treaty has

(02:01):
been interpreted over the last thirty or forty years by
the courts and the White Tanu Tribunal on the Public
Service is incompatible with that vision of a liberal democratic
society because it says we're all in a partnership between races,
and therefore a place in society must depend on our race.
There's no successful society like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, his argument about the Treaty principle's bill is that
it's bad policy because we'd be writing down what the
principles are, and he compares it to the Constitution of
the States, where you know, it may seem like a
great idea is to write that principle down now, but
in a few hundreds for a few hundred years time,
you don't need a gun to defend you against a
grizzly bear, and the principle that we write down now
may also be kind of incompatible with that time. What

(02:43):
do you say to that?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, I heard that. There was sort of the Davy
Crockett diversion and a very entertaining interview. So good on them,
and it's we're lucky that we don't have any dangerous
grizzly there's here in New Zealand. But to attend to
the substance of it, actually that the treaty has been
or at least six principles have been defined by all

(03:06):
those other groups, the thought the Tribunal, by the public service,
by academics. The only people who haven't really had to
say is New Zealand is in general and the Treaty
principal spell. It's not about changing the treaty. It's about
saying these principles they should reflect what the treaty itself said.
And if people disagree in two hundred years time, just

(03:27):
like America has changed since its founding, then what I'm
sure at some point in the next two hundred years
people can continue to have the debate. It's a living document.
My contribution to it through the Treaty principal spell is
I believe that we actually need an open debate for
all people, not one that's played out behind closed doors
and the courts and the academic saloons and the public

(03:49):
service departments. Because actually they've come up with something that
says your rights in New Zealand to be consulted or
sort of on the board or whatever, depend on who
your ancestors, but perhaps not talk.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
How's it going with Luxean because Luxon has got the
ear of John Key. If John Key's saying the stuff publicly,
he's saying it privately to the Prime Minister. Are you
having difficulty getting this stuff across the line?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, because what I found with Chris is that while
he does have a type of relationship and I think
he's got a lot of admiration for John, he is
his own man and he is very cognizant of the
reality of our government is that, you know, it's a
three way coalition and therefore we actually need to keep
our promises to each other. There are things that National

(04:30):
would like Act to do, and Acts would like New
Zealand First to do, and New Zealand First would like
National to do. So you know, it is a three
way coalition, maybe not the three way that we all
dreamed of, but it's the one that we're in and therefore,
you know, we have to actually make it work. One
of those commitments that is essential is getting that Treaty

(04:52):
Principles Bill up into Parliament, debating it properly through first reason,
and you just never know it might be a little
bit more popular than our partners believe, it might further
than they thought it may well.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Do David, Thank you very much, David. David Seymour, Act
Party Leader. I'm gonna have to recover after that three
way coming

Speaker 2 (05:09):
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