August 14, 2024 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, journalist Clare de Lore and Jack Tame rom ZB's Saturday Mornings and Q&A joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Reserve Bank has cut the OCR down by 25 basis points for the first time since 2020. Are we surprised by this news? What will this do for the mood of the nation?
There's tensions at Health NZ, as Health Commissioner Lester Levy had to step in and shoot down a proposal to cut 2000 doctors and nurses to save money. What's going on here? Will CEO Margie Apa have to step down?
More outrage at Wellington Council, after it's been revealed they spent $84,000 on a bike rack that nobody uses. Is this the best use of taxpayer money?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle with me this evening. We got Clear
Delord journalist and Jack Tame host a Q and A
in Saturday mornings. Hello you too, Hello there, Gilda Claire.
Were you surprised by the cut in the ocr I.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Didn't know whether it would have happen or not, because
I listened to everybody, and who knows. I mean, the
pundits seem to be evenly split. But I do know
that there are lots of small businesses particularly and people
with mortgages utterly relieved that it's heading in the right direct.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Reason I ask you that is because it feels like
it goes against Adrian's personality, right, because he's so he
I mean, I just say it. He's egotistical, right, And
this is an admission of an error. So I was
really surprised he did it.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, you know, you can only keep digging so far. Yeah,
and you have to just stop. And I don't follow
Adrian or as closely as you do or Jack, but
it does seem that he's had to reverse gear and
about time.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And for that, Jack, he actually deserves a massive bouquet,
doesn't he.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, yeah, I just feel like with all of the
decisions I want to reserve judgment another six or twelve
months until we see the full scale of the impacts.
And this is the problem I I mean, of course,
as a mortgage holder, I am relieved to see the
ocr heading in a more favorable direction. It's going to
take away while until we kind of see the full
(01:17):
impact of that. But you know, there were some pretty
gloomy news in that, you know in the MPs today
as well, potentially another different recession, unemployment higher than it
was previously going to be. So yeah, as pleased as
I am it's seeing the ICR at five point two
five as opposed to five point five, I'm not exactly
(01:37):
having a massive party to celebrate tonight, Claire.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I reckon it's going to change the mood just a
little bit, just because we know now it's in one direction.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, you'd have to hope it would, because it's actually
quite gloomy out there, it really is, and for some
businesses particularly it's not just Auckland, but that's where we
happen to be. It's too late. They hung on as
long as they could and it's got much and we've
seen a lot of closures lately of businesses that would
have probably you know, wanted to wait another week but couldn't.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, Jack, Yeah, you say, you say, we know it's
heading in one direction, and I just I I hope
you're right.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today?
Did you decide? No?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The only reason I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That is that three hours, Jack, look go back and.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Look at the NPS from May Like. The thing I
found really hard of the Reserve Bank is, at least
to my untrained eye, it does feel like they've kind
of lurched in their position over the last.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Couple of idiots, Jack, and everybody could see that we
were way more stuff. But you can't. You can't. We're
in recession for a third time. Go Jack.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Sorry, I think I think it would be extremely unlikely
and certainly unpopular. All I'm saying is that history has
taught me anything. The Reserve Bank, at least to my eye,
has lurched in its position like quite recently, and I
wouldn't be one hundred percent confident that they wouldn't do
it again. That being said, given things are so gloomy
(03:07):
right now, Yes, I certainly feel that the weight of
likelihood is on a track for us to see you're
going to.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Have just got a little shandy this evening, Jack, just
like a half bear.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm just I'm not trying to get too excited just yet, Okay.
I mean, if you're taking one hundred and fifty basis
points out of it, maybe I'd be celebrating a little hard, Claire.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I was just going to say, you know, there's been
a real attempt by Adrian order to try and make
this more cheerful. Yeah, because he said, for example, that
it's always dark as before the dawn. Yeah, it's not.
That is so wrong, is it not? It is completely wrong.
It's always darkest at midnight. And you know, I mean
he's clearly trying to makes all feel better. Yes, but
that is probably you know, just note to Adrian.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yep. Fair enough. All right, let's take a break, we'll
come back. We'll talk about what's going on in health
New Zealand and all the other stuff today. Right, you're
back with a huddle, Jack Tayman Claid, Lord Jack, Margie
up has gone, isn't she?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah? It doesn't look great deal. Pretty extraordinary actually to
see this kind of level of disconnect between a chair
and a CEO like this or commissioner and a CEO
rather Yeah, I mean you certainly, you know it speaks
to what is obviously like a massive level of disconnection
and discontent within Health New Zealand. But I just can't see,
(04:25):
given the public nature of this down and their relationship,
how that's going to continue.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I can't see that she can stay Claire because she
must have signed off on those plans to cut five
hundred doctors in fifteen hundred nurses, and that is just
impossible to comprehend.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't know that. We don't know that, and I
think Lester Levy has poured quite a bit of petrel
on to the fire here, and so I'm not so
sure Marjorie Oprah is for the hydrump. I do think
that what we're seeing is a level of self created
chaos within health.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I mean the government has set up said about these reforms.
They're doing them so fast, they're stripping out so much
so quickly, that this is like a very severe case
of speed wobbles, possibly taking out some of the controls,
the checks, balances, the handbrakes that you know Winston has
referred to in terms of what he did with the
previous government in some policies and so something gets through,
(05:22):
slips through, and playing it all up publicly is what
you would normally not do. You would normally just go
and crack heads together. But you know, if the behind
the scenes that is but you know, you just think,
if you want to get very fast results, you're taking
some risks along the way. This is our biggest company, effectively,
the whole station sage. Margie Upper as CEO of this
(05:44):
has seen god knows how many changes in the time
she's been in that job. And I'm not in any
way glossing over that paper causing some you know, absolute consternation.
I'm not sure the way to handle it though, is
to go raging publicly, because there aren't layers of people
if she leaves, for example, there are not layers of
(06:04):
people left to come up who are as steeped in it.
So I think finanally, if they should try.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Better to get If you do not believe that that
was really happening what was being proposed. Five hundred doctors gone,
fifteen hundred nurs has gone, then what do you think
the point of that proposal was? Was it an act
of resistance? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
In not as less to Levy. He's conceded that yes,
but he has also said it was an analogy put
together by some finance people who are famously not well
known for you know, sort of tact diplomacy necessarily communication skills,
or looking at the political fallout. So this is now
really highly political as it is very political, and it's
(06:46):
going to take I think, getting together with the Minister
sorting out lines of accountability. But right now I don't
think the losing Margie Alpha would be the best outcome.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Oh interesting, I agree with Clear on that point. I
just think the relationship thing is just so problematic right,
as Clear says, if you if you think about Health
New Zealand as our as our largest company, and think
about it in those terms, and to see this kind
of you know, these two public positions out of Marjiappa
(07:18):
and that of Lesta Levy being so kind of publicly opposed,
or at the very least the Commission taking such a
strong position publicly supposedly against Marjiapa, I mean, that's this
deeply unusual. Yeah, and and and surely isn't at all
beneficial to the overall organization. It seems extraordinary that these
kind of things wouldn't be happening.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So Jackie, you're saying there's a difference between what should
happen and what is going to happen. What should happen
is maybe in your mind she retains the job. What's
going to happen is she's going to go.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah. I think I think this is the sort of
thing that probably needs to go to a minister, and
given given the public nature of it, and a minister
actually needs to intervene, and as clear he has sought
out some really clear lines of not only of communication,
but of you know, of responsibility. So you don't actually
have these you don't have these two very senior people
(08:07):
seemingly working you know, pulling pulling a different direction or
working to different ends.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Clear, Does somebody need to write to Wellington Council and
tell them there's a cost of living crisis going on? Probably?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I mean you only go to Wellington, you know, and
walk a couple of blocks and you see water pouring
up out of the football being wasted. The bicycle wreck
seems to be a bit of a Rolls Royce. You
don't need a Rolls Royce. If you've got lots of bikes,
you can just have a little you know rack, small rack.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Those outside Fryburg Pool they've got those meatal racks. You
just pop your bike on their chain. It's through the
thing done, no problem. There are trees.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You can use them in times of surplus. Yes, you
have all of these, and it looks neat and tidy,
and it's all very state of the art. And you
see them in other places. Other places are wealthier than
we are right now as a country. We're actually not
in cities, major cities are not doing much.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Jack.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm getting a lot of texts saying that these fancy
bike racks are all up and down the country, including Auckland.
Have you got that? Have you been because you're a
bike boy, have you been.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Using I'm a very keen cyclist and I cannot say
that I've used them. And as a very keen cyclist,
I've got to say this kind of thing really annoys
me because I think it's a waste of money. Like
it doesn't It doesn't do those of us who like cycling.
It doesn't do our cause any good to see this
kind of profligate spending. As you say, you can just
(09:25):
put up a bar, that's that easy, Like how extensive
can honestly be to put a steel bar in the
ground for us to lock up to the bike. I
don't care if my bike is standing up right, or
if it's on the side or whatever. I just want
to be able to lock it for something. And it's
so frustrating to see this kind of thing being financed,
like you say, in the middle of the cost of
(09:45):
a living crisis, because it just attracts criticism from people
who say we shouldn't be putting any money into cycling
infrastructure too right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I just want to make it clear this is not
a cycling problem, this is a Wellington City Council problem. Jack,
Thank you so much appreciated. Jack Tame, host of Q
and A and Knows the Saturday Mornings and Clear to
Lord Journalist For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the huddle with me this evening. We got Clear
Delord journalist and Jack Tame host a Q and A
in Saturday mornings. Hello you too, Hello there, Gilda Claire.
Were you surprised by the cut in the ocr I.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Didn't know whether it would have happen or not, because
I listened to everybody, and who knows. I mean, the
pundits seem to be evenly split. But I do know
that there are lots of small businesses particularly and people
with mortgages utterly relieved that it's heading in the right direct.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Reason I ask you that is because it feels like
it goes against Adrian's personality, right, because he's so he
I mean, I just say it. He's egotistical, right, And
this is an admission of an error. So I was
really surprised he did it.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, you know, you can only keep digging so far. Yeah,
and you have to just stop. And I don't follow
Adrian or as closely as you do or Jack, but
it does seem that he's had to reverse gear and
about time.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And for that, Jack, he actually deserves a massive bouquet,
doesn't he.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, yeah, I just feel like with all of the
decisions I want to reserve judgment another six or twelve
months until we see the full scale of the impacts.
And this is the problem I I mean, of course,
as a mortgage holder, I am relieved to see the
ocr heading in a more favorable direction. It's going to
take away while until we kind of see the full
(01:17):
impact of that. But you know, there were some pretty
gloomy news in that, you know in the MPs today
as well, potentially another different recession, unemployment higher than it
was previously going to be. So yeah, as pleased as
I am it's seeing the ICR at five point two
five as opposed to five point five, I'm not exactly
(01:37):
having a massive party to celebrate tonight, Claire.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I reckon it's going to change the mood just a
little bit, just because we know now it's in one direction.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, you'd have to hope it would, because it's actually
quite gloomy out there, it really is, and for some
businesses particularly it's not just Auckland, but that's where we
happen to be. It's too late. They hung on as
long as they could and it's got much and we've
seen a lot of closures lately of businesses that would
have probably you know, wanted to wait another week but couldn't.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, Jack, Yeah, you say, you say, we know it's
heading in one direction, and I just I I hope
you're right.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today?
Did you decide? No?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The only reason I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That is that three hours, Jack, look go back and.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Look at the NPS from May Like. The thing I
found really hard of the Reserve Bank is, at least
to my untrained eye, it does feel like they've kind
of lurched in their position over the last.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Couple of idiots, Jack, and everybody could see that we
were way more stuff. But you can't. You can't. We're
in recession for a third time. Go Jack.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Sorry, I think I think it would be extremely unlikely
and certainly unpopular. All I'm saying is that history has
taught me anything. The Reserve Bank, at least to my eye,
has lurched in its position like quite recently, and I
wouldn't be one hundred percent confident that they wouldn't do
it again. That being said, given things are so gloomy
(03:07):
right now, Yes, I certainly feel that the weight of
likelihood is on a track for us to see you're
going to.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Have just got a little shandy this evening, Jack, just
like a half bear.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm just I'm not trying to get too excited just yet, Okay.
I mean, if you're taking one hundred and fifty basis
points out of it, maybe I'd be celebrating a little hard, Claire.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I was just going to say, you know, there's been
a real attempt by Adrian order to try and make
this more cheerful. Yeah, because he said, for example, that
it's always dark as before the dawn. Yeah, it's not.
That is so wrong, is it not? It is completely wrong.
It's always darkest at midnight. And you know, I mean
he's clearly trying to makes all feel better. Yes, but
that is probably you know, just note to Adrian.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yep. Fair enough. All right, let's take a break, we'll
come back. We'll talk about what's going on in health
New Zealand and all the other stuff today. Right, you're
back with a huddle, Jack Tayman Claid, Lord Jack, Margie
up has gone, isn't she?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah? It doesn't look great deal. Pretty extraordinary actually to
see this kind of level of disconnect between a chair
and a CEO like this or commissioner and a CEO
rather Yeah, I mean you certainly, you know it speaks
to what is obviously like a massive level of disconnection
and discontent within Health New Zealand. But I just can't see,
(04:25):
given the public nature of this down and their relationship,
how that's going to continue.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I can't see that she can stay Claire because she
must have signed off on those plans to cut five
hundred doctors in fifteen hundred nurses, and that is just
impossible to comprehend.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't know that. We don't know that, and I
think Lester Levy has poured quite a bit of petrel
on to the fire here, and so I'm not so
sure Marjorie Oprah is for the hydrump. I do think
that what we're seeing is a level of self created
chaos within health.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I mean the government has set up said about these reforms.
They're doing them so fast, they're stripping out so much
so quickly, that this is like a very severe case
of speed wobbles, possibly taking out some of the controls,
the checks, balances, the handbrakes that you know Winston has
referred to in terms of what he did with the
previous government in some policies and so something gets through,
(05:22):
slips through, and playing it all up publicly is what
you would normally not do. You would normally just go
and crack heads together. But you know, if the behind
the scenes that is but you know, you just think,
if you want to get very fast results, you're taking
some risks along the way. This is our biggest company, effectively,
the whole station sage. Margie Upper as CEO of this
(05:44):
has seen god knows how many changes in the time
she's been in that job. And I'm not in any
way glossing over that paper causing some you know, absolute consternation.
I'm not sure the way to handle it though, is
to go raging publicly, because there aren't layers of people
if she leaves, for example, there are not layers of
(06:04):
people left to come up who are as steeped in it.
So I think finanally, if they should try.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Better to get If you do not believe that that
was really happening what was being proposed. Five hundred doctors gone,
fifteen hundred nurs has gone, then what do you think
the point of that proposal was? Was it an act
of resistance? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
In not as less to Levy. He's conceded that yes,
but he has also said it was an analogy put
together by some finance people who are famously not well
known for you know, sort of tact diplomacy necessarily communication skills,
or looking at the political fallout. So this is now
really highly political as it is very political, and it's
(06:46):
going to take I think, getting together with the Minister
sorting out lines of accountability. But right now I don't
think the losing Margie Alpha would be the best outcome.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Oh interesting, I agree with Clear on that point. I
just think the relationship thing is just so problematic right,
as Clear says, if you if you think about Health
New Zealand as our as our largest company, and think
about it in those terms, and to see this kind
of you know, these two public positions out of Marjiappa
(07:18):
and that of Lesta Levy being so kind of publicly opposed,
or at the very least the Commission taking such a
strong position publicly supposedly against Marjiapa, I mean, that's this
deeply unusual. Yeah, and and and surely isn't at all
beneficial to the overall organization. It seems extraordinary that these
kind of things wouldn't be happening.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So Jackie, you're saying there's a difference between what should
happen and what is going to happen. What should happen
is maybe in your mind she retains the job. What's
going to happen is she's going to go.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah. I think I think this is the sort of
thing that probably needs to go to a minister, and
given given the public nature of it, and a minister
actually needs to intervene, and as clear he has sought
out some really clear lines of not only of communication,
but of you know, of responsibility. So you don't actually
have these you don't have these two very senior people
(08:07):
seemingly working you know, pulling pulling a different direction or
working to different ends.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Clear, Does somebody need to write to Wellington Council and
tell them there's a cost of living crisis going on? Probably?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I mean you only go to Wellington, you know, and
walk a couple of blocks and you see water pouring
up out of the football being wasted. The bicycle wreck
seems to be a bit of a Rolls Royce. You
don't need a Rolls Royce. If you've got lots of bikes,
you can just have a little you know rack, small rack.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Those outside Fryburg Pool they've got those meatal racks. You
just pop your bike on their chain. It's through the
thing done, no problem. There are trees.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You can use them in times of surplus. Yes, you
have all of these, and it looks neat and tidy,
and it's all very state of the art. And you
see them in other places. Other places are wealthier than
we are right now as a country. We're actually not
in cities, major cities are not doing much.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Jack.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I'm getting a lot of texts saying that these fancy
bike racks are all up and down the country, including Auckland.
Have you got that? Have you been because you're a
bike boy, have you been.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Using I'm a very keen cyclist and I cannot say
that I've used them. And as a very keen cyclist,
I've got to say this kind of thing really annoys
me because I think it's a waste of money. Like
it doesn't It doesn't do those of us who like cycling.
It doesn't do our cause any good to see this
kind of profligate spending. As you say, you can just
(09:25):
put up a bar, that's that easy, Like how extensive
can honestly be to put a steel bar in the
ground for us to lock up to the bike. I
don't care if my bike is standing up right, or
if it's on the side or whatever. I just want
to be able to lock it for something. And it's
so frustrating to see this kind of thing being financed,
like you say, in the middle of the cost of
(09:45):
a living crisis, because it just attracts criticism from people
who say we shouldn't be putting any money into cycling
infrastructure too right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I just want to make it clear this is not
a cycling problem, this is a Wellington City Council problem. Jack,
Thank you so much appreciated. Jack Tame, host of Q
and A and Knows the Saturday Mornings and Clear to
Lord Journalist For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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