Ever since Singapore introduced congestion charges in the 1970s, other cities have tried to emulate its success.
Wellington is the latest major New Zealand city to look at introducing congestion charges as a means of reducing traffic and improving public transport?
Tony Canavan, EY's Global Transport Leader for the Government and Public Sector, explains how the right projects can boost a city's growth - and gave examples from across the world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The government's announced today an attempt to take the politics
out of transport by setting up an agency that will
plan ahead for the next thirty years. Tony Canavan is
EWISE Global Transport leader. He's visiting New Zealand from Singapore. Hey, Tony,
I have so where in New Zealand are you right now?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm sitting at the Building Nations conference in Auckland down
by the water all right, about eight hundred other people.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Have you had a look at the infrastructure in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I only just arrived yesterday, but i have been in
Auckland before, so I've got a broad familiarity with it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Rated out of ten for me, I think.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's up there at seven eight. It's had some growing
pains over the years.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I don't mean, Tony, I don't mean like the awesomeness
of the city. I mean the infrastructure. I'd give it
a sort of like I'd be thinking, if you're below five,
you'd be about right. Like maybe i'd give you a
five if you're if you're feeling generous, really stand by
a seven.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well. I wouldn't be a very good visitor if I
came in and started keeping rakings like that. But I do.
I do know that, like a lot of successful cities,
it's had a lot of growth and it's not always
easy to keep up with that growth. And you do
see a bit of that in Auckland, but there's also
a lot of good things about it too, So I
think I'll sell it with my current score.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you havev okay. If you could do anything to
Auckland to improve the infrastructure, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well? As I said, I think, you know, keeping up
with growth. Growth is a good thing, you know, it's
a sign of success, but keeping up with growth is difficult,
particularly when it comes to transport, and so having a
comprehensive plan, you know, across all the modes of transport,
so that people, the community, investors, leaders come and go
(01:42):
and the next one comes along knows what the plan is,
so that the network can grow with the people. And
I think that that's something that Auckland could benefit from.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
The Government has just announced today a twenty six million
dollar infrastructure agency that will work through a thirty year
pipeline of infrastructure. Is it a smart idea to decide
in twenty twenty four what we are going to be
building in twenty fifty four.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, I think it is. It doesn't mean that you're
going to absolutely stick to it religiously, but I think
with infrastructure it has such a long life header Now
it takes a long time to build, then it will
be around for thirty, forty fifty, even one hundred years,
that you do need to look a long way ahead.
And yes, you make adjustments as you go along. So
(02:27):
I think it's always a good idea to put a
plan in place and have that there. It's sent a
signal and it gives people an idea of the direction
you're going. So generally speaking, I think I think it's
the right thing to make sure you're doing planning properly,
particularly where you're a city and a country is growing
in the way that Awkand is.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Is there a balance to be strung? I mean, at
the moment we have a real political debate. People on
the right and the center right really want to build
roads and kind of get that freight going and get
people moving in their cars. People on the left and
the sinter lift really want to build cycle ways. How
do you kind of balance that out? When when I
mean it's you know, I love it, I love a
(03:08):
good cycle way, but it seems kind of silly to
be building something that's only used by about ten people
a day.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, I don't think the bicycle pars are silly, but
I do think the overall competition, if you're like sometimes
between road and public transport and bicycle pars, that can
be a bit silly in my opinion, because each has
a role to play, and when you look at the
different modes of transport, they're good for different types of journeys,
and the best networks around the world are truly multimodal,
(03:37):
and look for the best way to balance the investment
across those things, not to try and put all the
eggs into one basket.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
But it is the same game, isn't it. I mean,
you've only got so much money.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Sorry, Heather, I missed that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's a zero some game. You've only got so much money.
So if you're taking money and you're pup popping it
into an expensive cycle way, you don't have it for roads.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, Well that's when the plane. That's the plane is
referre too is so important because if you don't have
the plan, and you haven't thought about the priorities, and
you've got limited funds, as you've said, then you can
make the wrong choice with those funds. In the end,
the most important decision you can make is to do
the right project. Now each has the role to play,
and you know, doing that kind of planning enables you
(04:20):
to find the right balance and get the people, get
people using the right infrastructure for the right types of journeys.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So for us with a congestion charge, it feels very
much like it's time has come in the country, and
I think across the political spectrum there is agreement that
we need to do this. But the difficulty we've got
is that if we're going to force people out of
their cars at peak travel, we need to have alternatives,
and they are not necessarily there. Can we actually go
ahead with it if people don't have an alternative public transport?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head
head because there are strong arguments for a congesting charge.
I mean there's been cities that have done it. You
mentioned Singapore, you can look at London, Stockholm and they've
had some success. But the things that those countries have
had in place, and you really need to make sure
you have in place when you launch into this sort
(05:10):
of reform is well, the first thing is the alternatives
that you just mentioned. I mean, when Singapore upgraded to
the electronic road pricing system, which congested charging, they were
building the metro system at the same time, so they
were creating that alternative. You've also got to make sure
you're not hurting low income groups because in New Zealand
(05:32):
and in countries like Australia, people rely on their cars
to get around, so you need to calibrate it carefully
so that you're not hurting the people you really don't
want to hurt. And you've got to have things like
city bypassing and stuff like that. So there's definitely an
argument for it, but you have to be very careful
to make sure you've got the other things in place.
So I think you nail on the head. Tony.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you very much for talking us, so I really
appreciate your expertise. Tony Cannevan, Global Transport leader for the
Government sector Ey visiting New Zealand from Singapore. For more
from Hither Dupless Yellen Drive, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
The government's announced today an attempt to take the politics
out of transport by setting up an agency that will
plan ahead for the next thirty years. Tony Canavan is
EWISE Global Transport leader. He's visiting New Zealand from Singapore. Hey, Tony,
I have so where in New Zealand are you right now?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm sitting at the Building Nations conference in Auckland down
by the water all right, about eight hundred other people.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Have you had a look at the infrastructure in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I only just arrived yesterday, but i have been in
Auckland before, so I've got a broad familiarity with it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Rated out of ten for me, I think.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's up there at seven eight. It's had some growing
pains over the years.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I don't mean, Tony, I don't mean like the awesomeness
of the city. I mean the infrastructure. I'd give it
a sort of like I'd be thinking, if you're below five,
you'd be about right. Like maybe i'd give you a
five if you're if you're feeling generous, really stand by
a seven.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well. I wouldn't be a very good visitor if I
came in and started keeping rakings like that. But I do.
I do know that, like a lot of successful cities,
it's had a lot of growth and it's not always
easy to keep up with that growth. And you do
see a bit of that in Auckland, but there's also
a lot of good things about it too, So I
think I'll sell it with my current score.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you havev okay. If you could do anything to
Auckland to improve the infrastructure, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well? As I said, I think, you know, keeping up
with growth. Growth is a good thing, you know, it's
a sign of success, but keeping up with growth is difficult,
particularly when it comes to transport, and so having a
comprehensive plan, you know, across all the modes of transport,
so that people, the community, investors, leaders come and go
(01:42):
and the next one comes along knows what the plan is,
so that the network can grow with the people. And
I think that that's something that Auckland could benefit from.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
The Government has just announced today a twenty six million
dollar infrastructure agency that will work through a thirty year
pipeline of infrastructure. Is it a smart idea to decide
in twenty twenty four what we are going to be
building in twenty fifty four.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, I think it is. It doesn't mean that you're
going to absolutely stick to it religiously, but I think
with infrastructure it has such a long life header Now
it takes a long time to build, then it will
be around for thirty, forty fifty, even one hundred years,
that you do need to look a long way ahead.
And yes, you make adjustments as you go along. So
(02:27):
I think it's always a good idea to put a
plan in place and have that there. It's sent a
signal and it gives people an idea of the direction
you're going. So generally speaking, I think I think it's
the right thing to make sure you're doing planning properly,
particularly where you're a city and a country is growing
in the way that Awkand is.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Is there a balance to be strung? I mean, at
the moment we have a real political debate. People on
the right and the center right really want to build
roads and kind of get that freight going and get
people moving in their cars. People on the left and
the sinter lift really want to build cycle ways. How
do you kind of balance that out? When when I
mean it's you know, I love it, I love a
(03:08):
good cycle way, but it seems kind of silly to
be building something that's only used by about ten people
a day.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, I don't think the bicycle pars are silly, but
I do think the overall competition, if you're like sometimes
between road and public transport and bicycle pars, that can
be a bit silly in my opinion, because each has
a role to play, and when you look at the
different modes of transport, they're good for different types of journeys,
and the best networks around the world are truly multimodal,
(03:37):
and look for the best way to balance the investment
across those things, not to try and put all the
eggs into one basket.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
But it is the same game, isn't it. I mean,
you've only got so much money.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Sorry, Heather, I missed that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's a zero some game. You've only got so much money.
So if you're taking money and you're pup popping it
into an expensive cycle way, you don't have it for roads.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, Well that's when the plane. That's the plane is
referre too is so important because if you don't have
the plan, and you haven't thought about the priorities, and
you've got limited funds, as you've said, then you can
make the wrong choice with those funds. In the end,
the most important decision you can make is to do
the right project. Now each has the role to play,
and you know, doing that kind of planning enables you
(04:20):
to find the right balance and get the people, get
people using the right infrastructure for the right types of journeys.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So for us with a congestion charge, it feels very
much like it's time has come in the country, and
I think across the political spectrum there is agreement that
we need to do this. But the difficulty we've got
is that if we're going to force people out of
their cars at peak travel, we need to have alternatives,
and they are not necessarily there. Can we actually go
ahead with it if people don't have an alternative public transport?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head
head because there are strong arguments for a congesting charge.
I mean there's been cities that have done it. You
mentioned Singapore, you can look at London, Stockholm and they've
had some success. But the things that those countries have
had in place, and you really need to make sure
you have in place when you launch into this sort
(05:10):
of reform is well, the first thing is the alternatives
that you just mentioned. I mean, when Singapore upgraded to
the electronic road pricing system, which congested charging, they were
building the metro system at the same time, so they
were creating that alternative. You've also got to make sure
you're not hurting low income groups because in New Zealand
(05:32):
and in countries like Australia, people rely on their cars
to get around, so you need to calibrate it carefully
so that you're not hurting the people you really don't
want to hurt. And you've got to have things like
city bypassing and stuff like that. So there's definitely an
argument for it, but you have to be very careful
to make sure you've got the other things in place.
So I think you nail on the head. Tony.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you very much for talking us, so I really
appreciate your expertise. Tony Cannevan, Global Transport leader for the
Government sector Ey visiting New Zealand from Singapore. For more
from Hither Dupless Yellen Drive, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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