David Seymour: ACT Party leader hopeful Prime Minister Luxon changes his mind and supports Treaty Principles Bill

The architect of the Treaty Principles Bill is still hopeful the Prime Minister could support it.

David Seymour confirms Cabinet discussed his Bill today - and agreed its broad outline before it goes to Parliament's drafters.

He says it'll change to acknowledge the rights of hapu and iwi at the time of the Treaty.

Chris Luxon says he won't support it past first reading, but Seymour's optimistic that could change.

"You see the exact wording, you see other people's reactions, you see it's actually a force for good - and maybe you take a different view."

Luxon said today that ACT and National don't agree on this.

"We found a compromise where both parties didn't get what they wanted, but we have to honour our coalition commitments - and that's what we're doing here."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afternoon. The Treaty Principal's Bill has finally gone to Cabinet today.
It is a draft. And it also happened on the
day that more than four hundred Christian leaders signed an
open letter calling on MPs to kill the bill as
soon as they possibly can. Acts Party leader David Seymour's
with us. Hey, David, Hey, Now, I understand you've made
a change to what we thought was going to be
in the billboard.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Is it Well, we've always said that number one, the
government has the right to govern, that's in the treaty.
That doesn't change number two, that we all have the
right to self determination or tra dung or tita tonger
over our property and our treasures, as it was in
the English version Taiga and the Mariu version, And that

(00:40):
we've actually going to change a little bit to acknowledge
the acknowledgment of the rights of Hapu and Ewi at
the time of the treaty, because I think a lot
of people have been annoyed that we didn't include that.
My suggestion is that saying everyone has those rights actually
strengthens the rights of Hauppa the new Wee because it
generalizes them, gives everyone a stake but okay. And then

(01:04):
the final part, which everyone agrees on natiktahi everyone has
the same rights and duties. And I think when you
put those three together, it's a pretty compelling foundation for
a country where everybody has equal rights.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so let me understand this Article two, which previously
said the New Zealand Government will honor all New Zealanders
in the chieftainship of their land and their property will remain.
But you will also add an acknowledgment of Ewe and
Hapu rightes in eighteen forty.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's about right. I mean, bear in mind, you know,
all that's happened today is the government and the parties
have agreed to the broad outline of the bill that
now goes off to Parliament's drafters, who will take some
time to write the exact wording.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Now, this hasn't managed, This change hasn't managed to get
Christopher Luxon across the line. He still wants to kill it.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, I mean, you know, he's taken the position for
a long time as the leader of the National Party.
They're not in favor of taking it any further than
six months of parliamentary debate. One two readings in a
select committee hearing. You know me, I'm forever hopeful that
you just never know how circumstances might change. You see

(02:16):
the exact wording, you see the people's reaction, you see
it's actually a force for good, and maybe you take
a different view, but you know, you take a better
word and say, well, maybe maybe things could change in
the future.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
How coincidental is it that the leaders write this open
letter on the very day that this thing goes to cabinet?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Hard to know. And maybe they've got a little birdie
that's told them something, but that's just speculation. I think
it's more likely that it is a coincidence. Where there's
two hundred and sixty five days in the year, so
take out weekends and Christmas holiday, I guess they probably
had about a one and two hundred chants.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
What do you say to them? I mean, have they
got a point here?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
No? I mean I've been pretty surprised by the whole thing.
I mean, I thought I'd better not say that it's ironic,
because if those missionaries had been a bit more helpful
with the translation, we might not be in this mess.
In any event, I thought I'd better not say that
because get even more upset. But I just make the
point that Christianity at its best is the observation that

(03:16):
each person has made in the image of God and
has the same inalienable rights. I mean, that was the
basis for anti slavery, It's been the basis for so
many good movements in political history. It's really the foundation
of liberal democracy, that idea that each of us have
equal rights. That's what we're trying to promote with the
Treaty Principles Bill, not this idea that the courts have

(03:37):
come up with that you know, somehow there's a partnership
between races and therefore we each have a different role
to play in New Zealand based on who our ancestors were.
We believe everybody is equal. And I would have thought
that was closer to the true Christian teaching from the
Book of Genesis than you know what they are expounding.
But hey, look the free speech and they got a

(03:57):
right to participate in Good on them.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
David, Thank you very much appreciated. That's David Seymore, the
Act Party leader. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive
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