John Battersby: Manawanui sinking a "dent to our pride"

It is still unknown as to how exactly the Manawanui ended up sinking, but Defence Minister Judith Collins is suggesting a power outage may have caused the ship to run aground. 

Local authorities are conducting environmental assessments amid concerns of potential oil or chemical spills. 

John Battersby from the Massey University Centre for Defence and Security Studies joins Jack Tame to discuss whether this incident will damage New Zealand's reputation. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are still so many unanswered questions about the sinking
of the h m n Z S Mantuanui, still not
knowing exactly what happened, although Defense Minister due to Collins
is suggesting that a power outage may have caused the
ship to run aground. Local authorities and some more are
conducting environmental assessments as there is concern now about potential
oil or chemical spillage. The Defense Forces only quote acknowledged

(00:23):
our request for an interview. We are yet to get
a proper response. Massive University Center for Defense and Security Studies.
John Battersby is with us this evening.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
No Kilder, John, Hello, how are you?

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah? Very well? Thanks thanks for being with us, even
though the Defense Force won't be, which seems remarkable given
the circumstances. But how bad does this whole situation make
New Zealand?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Look, I think I'm a little bit here and there
on that one. On one hand, Yet does it doesn't
look good at all? Right? We've lost a peace time
We've lost a vessel in peace time over a reef
which the vessel was supposed to be equipped to to
be able to locate and see. And we're two weeks

(01:04):
out from Choggham, which I think all three of our
services and our police are all going to be supporting.
So yeah, look, this is not a good time. It's
not a good look. On the other hand, other navies
have lost vessels in peace time, they've covered them up
and they've looked even wilderness when that's been discovered. So
we have got everybody off. Nobody's died yet. There's going

(01:27):
to be some environmental damage, but at the end of
the day, I think we've probably minimized. The reputational damage
is going.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
To be some of course, yeah, I'm not sure covering
it up was really an option given it was on
fire on the front page of the Heral, but I
get your point. Yeah, yeah, I get your point. So
I mean, this's just think about the timing of all this,
and I want to say that, you know, the reputational
damage is not the absolute primary concern, right, We've avoided
loss of life. That's got to be top, top of

(01:55):
the top of the list. Then environmental concerns, which I'll
get to in a moment. But I mean, you have
just had this meeting of defense ministers in New Zealand.
We've got Choggam in a couple of weeks, leaders from
fifty six countries in some More are potentially going to
be looking at this wreck just off the coast. Is
this incident indicative of the state of the New Zealand
Defense Force, because when you think about the standard of
our housing in the Defense Force, combined with the Air

(02:17):
Force seven five sevens, it feels like this is becoming
a bit of a theme.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah. I think probably. What I would say is that,
for as long as I can remember, our defense force
does seem to be depleting. I can remember when we
had six frigates, so we'd down to four, now down
to two. I can remember the Skyhawks, So it does
seem like we have under invested in defense. Whether this

(02:45):
is a particular thing caused by that, I am not
going to be drawn on that. We'll just have to
wait and see. But I think given the geostrategic changes
that are going on in the Pacific, and you're right,
there's now this big conference going on in some More,
there are things happening in the specific now that if
we want to be a part of those, we want
to be able to see what's going on and influence

(03:07):
what's going on. We might need to look at how
we represent ourselves and the way that our defense force
is used in particular for that. So that's probably something
we've got to we've got a face up to. And
I'm not sure it's specifically because this vessel has sunk.
I think this is a general set of objectives that
we've got and we've got to make sure we've got

(03:28):
enough in the bank.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, So what are New Zealand's responsibilities when it comes
to trying to mitigate the environmental concerns here?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I think we've probably got to do the best
we can in terms of trying to mitigate this. I
mean I think I would see it's not a big vessel,
it's not nuclear powered, so yes, there is going to
be an amount of environmental damaged caused by this. But look,
let's go back to World War Two in the English

(03:59):
Channel when the ords of ships going down every week.
So environmental damage is something that can be contained. It
will pass in time. It's unfortunate, but we're island countries
and we rely on ships all the time and the
risk of using the sea is every now and again
one's going to go down. So yeah, look I don't

(04:20):
think I don't want to minimize that. Environmental damage is horrible.
We don't like it, but let's just keep it in perspective.
This could have been a hell of a lot worse.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
All right, Thanks John, Always appreciate it. That as John
Battersbee from Massive University Center for Defense and Security Studies.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
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