Chris Bishop: Government calls for Sport NZ to review transgender athlete principles

The Government have today asked Sport New Zealand to review and update their principles for the inclusion of transgender people in community sport. 

It outlined that the current guidelines do not reflect expectations that sport be about fairness and safety as wekk as diversity, inclusion, and equity. 

Chris Bishop is the minister of sport and recreation and he joins Jack Tame to discuss further. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Government has today asked Sport New Zealand to review and
update their principles for the inclusion of transgender people in
community sport, outlining that the current guidelines don't reflect expectations
that sport be about fairness and safety as well as diversity,
inclusion and equity. The Minister in charge of this is
Chris Bishop, who's with this this evening Kilda, Good afternoon. Well,

(00:21):
what does this actually mean.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
It means that Sport New Zealand will be updating the
guidelines they published and well first published in December twenty
twenty two. They're not mandatory. They're just guiding principles around
the inclusion of transgender people in community sport. This is
not about elite sport where there are different rules obviously,
so they'll be updating those guidelines and I'm expecting an
update from them in the coming months.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
And what does it mean for the inclusion of transgender
people in community sport.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's just simply making the point that it is really
important that transgender people can participate at the community level.
But the way the guidelines work at the moment is
they're solely focused or almost near exclusively focused on diversity inclusion,
and equity. But it's our view, and I think many
people in the community's view that sport is also about

(01:09):
fairness and safety, and so it's just making sure the
guidelines reflect those legitimate expectations as well. And so it's
about taking a bit more of a balanced approach to
what the guidelines say.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Why is fairness an issue when it comes to community.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Sport Because sport is ultimately about competition and about winning
and losing and about competing, and I think most people
who follow sport will know that, even at a community level,
it's really important that it's fair, and so the guidelines
will be updated to reflect that.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Will this mean do you think that transgender people? Do
you think fewer transgender people will pay community sport?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well, I really hope not. And as part of kind
of coming to the view that we need to date
the guidelines, I have talked to a range of different
people in the community and a range of different organizations,
and my hope and expectations that doesn't happen. And I
think we need to realize that these are just these

(02:14):
are just guiding principles. These are not mandatory, They're just
designed to help sporting organizations grapple with. It's quite tricky issue.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
It is a tricky issue. I know, it's really contentious,
but why wouldn't that happen?

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, ultimately, it's over to sporting bodies to develop rules
and regulations and guidance.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
They've been able to do that already, I mean, they
can do that now, there's nothing to say they.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Can, and they can and they are. They are, I
mean many of them are. The reason why these guidelines
existed in the first place is that many of the
sports said, look, we just really need some help here,
we don't really know what we're doing. And so they
went to Sport New Zealand, which is the kind of
you know, overarching body, and support the zeal And develop
these guidelines and up in there for a couple of
years now almost a couple of years. I'm just asking

(02:55):
them to update them to reflect the fact that it's
not just about inclusion that is really important, but it's
also about fairness and safety.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
But why wouldn't it mean fewer transgender people playing community sport.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, I mean, ultimately, we want everyone to be able
to toicipate community sport, and we want everyone to be
able to join their local rugby club, join their local
softball club, basket or whatever it is that people choose
to do. I want as many people playing sport as
possible in New Zealand. It's just about making sure we
do that in a way that is inclusive of everybody

(03:28):
but also recognizes the realities of having transgender people participate
at a community level. It does produce challenges for sports,
and it does produce challenges for clubs, and it's just
about navigating our way through that as a community and
making sure that everyone feel safe and accepted.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Why won't that mean fewer transgender people playing community sport?

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, I don't think it will.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, because I backed sports and I back sporting bodies.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
And sporting bodies can suit their own stead there's now
we've established that. So why won't giving sports in these rules.
Why won't that mean fewer transgender people playing sport?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well because I think actually that the guidelines have been
well received by the sporting by sporting bodies.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
But that doesn't explain why fewer Why it won't mean
fewer transgender people playing.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Sport, But it also doesn't explain why there will be
I mean, you know, you sort of a little bit secured us.
I mean, the guidelines are out there, sporting bodies wanted them,
they've been published. I'm asking them to be updated to
reflect more a slightly more balanced approach to the way
in which they are utilized by by sporting bodies. I

(04:39):
have every expectation that transgender people will be able to
participate in the community sport, and in fact I welcome
that because I want everyone who wants to play sports
to be able to do so.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
So if a transgender person can't play a sport playing
as part of a team, for example, in the gender
for which they identify, what do they do?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
It depends that this is the thing is. There's no
hard and fast rules here, right, and it depends on
the sport. So treason, for example, has an open category
that anyone can participate in, including transgender people. New Zealand
Rugby League already has a policy that at age thirteen
and over, you have to participate in the gender that
you're assigned at birth. So it really depends on the

(05:21):
sporting code. Some sports are more of a further advance
on dealing with this than others. Some bodies just don't
even have a policy around this stuff. Some are more advances.
I've ser indicated a couple of examples. So there are
part of the issue with this is that there aren't
hard and fast rules, and often the debate, the debate
descends into binaries, and actually, you know that's part of

(05:42):
the problem that you can't the part of fast rules.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, yeah, I thank you for your time. I know
it is a contentious issue, so we appreciate your time.
This evening. That is Chris Bishop right now, it's nineteen
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