Alex Turnbull: Rhythm and Alps founder and director on the cancellation of Bay Dreams 2025

One of New Zealand's biggest summer music festivals - Bay Dreams - will not go ahead in 2025 as promoters struggle to draw big artists into the country.

The organisers had hoped to book Kendrick Lamar as a headliner, but a successful 2024 for the rapper meant the costs to bring him here doubled.

Rhythm and Alps founder and director Alex Turnbull says many brands are putting themselves in a 'dangerous' position by relying too heavily on big names.

"There are so many more lines that contribute to a festival brand - such as the experience, that's a really key thing. Whether it's the biggest festival that's been cancelled, I'm really not sure." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now one of New Zealand's largest festivals, Bay Dreams, has
announced it's no longer going to go ahead. We're supposed
to go ahead this summer. Promoters are struggling to bring
big artists into the country. The organizers were trying to
book the world's biggest rapper, Kendrick Lamar or one of
at least to headline the festival, which was supposed to
be hold held in Totung and Queenstown, but then the
cost of booking him alone blew out massively, so the

(00:21):
promoter's canceled the festival altogether. Founder and director of Rhythm
and Alps Alex Turnbull is with us right now.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Alex, Hello, Heather good that's name Alex.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I was going through the list and trying to figure
out if this is the biggest festival that's been canceled
in the country, is it.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, there's been you know, kept the stores of canceling
or not for whatever reasons. The good ones are in there,
The good ones are staying around. Established brands are there.
You know, it's a very dangerous position to be relying
on an artist to sell your festiva. There are so
many more lines that contribute to the festival brands such

(00:59):
as the experience is a really really key thing. Whether
it's the biggest fest worts cancel. I'm really not sure
that the.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Argument is Alex that you have to rely on a
big name because if you haven't got a lot of
money in a recession, you know, like the punters out
there don't have a lot of money to spend, They're
not just going to spend it willy nilly. They want
to know that they're going to go see a really
amazing artist.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Would you disagree with that, Well, yes, in some ways
it would. I mean, you know, we have a responsibility
to keep the young New Zealanders safe at these events,
and you know, a good festival brand does look after
its people. It's about the experience. And if you get
into a position where you have to book the biggest
act in the world, where you're in a pretty dangerous

(01:38):
situation whereby you relying on it, you know you can't
lose control. But if a brand is all about the
experience in the long term, it's long game, that's what
matters to the people.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay, So if you're not going for Kendrick Lamar, who
should you be going for?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well, that's the nearly lot of question. I mean, you know,
the New Zealand's lucky position. Then we've got Coldpaid coming
through next month with Trap Scott, We've got Pearl Jam.
But you know, at the same time, New Zealand musicians
and New Zealand music people love music. You know, you've
got there's products like Shapeshifts are coming through in Hawks

(02:14):
Bay and Krew Mandal in the summer. New Zealanders love
their own so we don't have to see the bigger
facts in the world. Nice if they hear, but again
sometimes the realization of that it can be a bit.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
When when is your festival on.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Rhythm up semi thirty city one every year.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Where you started selling tickets here?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, we're about twenty percent up and you know
we're lucky. You know, we put a lot of effort
into the experience to keep people safe, you know, and
isn't it I mean rhythm and vines and gives it's
the same thing. So you know we spent a lot
of due diligence of time and stuff and getting it
right to make sure our young people are and will

(03:00):
oft befter.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, you guys have got to go at great brand Ay,
What are these guys were saying, by the way, and
I'd be fascinated to know if you were experiencing this,
this is beaydreams. They were saying that artists who would
have charged maybe three hundred three fifty thousand previously are
now charging a million plus. Is that are you seeing that?

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, it depends on your negotiation. I mean everything. An
agent will sell an artist to a booker under certain
terms and additions the time of the year, how many
other shows are around based at the relationship they have, what
the billing is. There's very multiple angles that make up
the cost of a bring an artist in. And yes,

(03:37):
I mean right across the board. I think everything's gone
up sort of twenty three to forty percent in the
event industry in the last two or three years. I
haven't heard jumps like that. I mean, you know, the
end of the day, these artists can charge what they
want and you decide to pay it or not. It's
your choice.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, Hey, thank you, Alex appreciated. That's Alex Turnbull, founder
and director of Rhythm and Helps. For more from Hither
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