The Finance Minister says Chris Luxon's description of voters in a recent sit-down interview was a 'slip of the tongue' as part of his corporate background.
In a new episode of 30 with Guyon Espiner, the Prime Minister referred to voters as 'customers' - and defended claims that he was out of touch with New Zealanders
Nicola Willis says Luxon is focused on delivering results above all, and he knows New Zealanders are New Zealanders.
"I reckon New Zealand has bigger challenges than whether or not the Prime Minister describes people as customers."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's what's down on, what were the major callus and
how will it affect the economy? A big business question
on the Business Hour with Heather Duplicy, Allen and my
Hr on News Talks Evy.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Evening. Coming up in the next hour, Shane Soley's going
to talk us through whether the markets are still pricing
at Trump when Keir we Bank will talk us through
why some millennials are still really really gloomy about ever
owning a home. And Gavin Gray's with us out of
the UK seven pass six. Nicola Willis Finance Minister with us. Now, Hey, Nicola,
good evening here. That did you make of the Prime
minister calling voters customers?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I think it was just a slip of the tang.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Why are you apologizing for it?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Why are you alogizing for it?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm I'm not apologizing for it at all. I think
there was a slip of the tangue. I think, as
he said himself, he does come from a corporate background,
a commercial background. He's always thinking about delivery. He knows
New Zealanders are New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, okay, maybe you're not apologizing for it, but you're
explaining it. But why, I mean what's wrong with him
calling voters customers?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, you asked me why, and I think it was
just a slip of the tongue. That's all I think
there is to it. I reckon New Zealand has bigger
challenges than whether or not the Prime Minister describes people
as customers. No, I think New Zealand voters would rather
we were focused on those challenges. Of course, RB and semantics.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But why is the Prime Minister always apologizing for his
corporate speak. He should lean into this stuff. This is
the stuff he's good at, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well. I think that he is very good at getting
driven on outcomes and objectives and targets and accountability. But
he also responds to the questions that he gets asked
by the press and by members of the press gallery.
And that was one of the lines of questioning today,
So he rightfully answered their question.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Explain this to me, because I don't understand this account
I'm looking at. I'm looking at Chris lux and the
guy from Unilever, the guy from a New Zealand. He
was good at business. He comes to politics as he
brings his corporate speak with him. It feels perfectly natural
to me. And as a voter, I'm I'm pretty fine
about him actually trying to drive business efficiency out of
the government. Right, So why is it that there appears
(02:07):
to be this kind of move within the National Party
or within the government whatever. I don't know, Maybe it's
from your media mind, is why drive this out of him?
Why not let him actually just be the corporate guy.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Ah, certainly we let him be the corporate guy in
the sense of having those quarterly plans, those targets, driving
results against them. And frankly, if he calls New Zealand
customers and the result of that is that they get
better service, then I don't really think anyone minds what
they call? Do they?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay? So why did he apologize for it?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Did he apologize so much as to say it was
a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, what he said in the end, I think, and
I'm kind of paraphrasing it, but he did acknowledge that
he needs to sound a little less corporate.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I think he's just he's noted that some people criticize
them for sounding corporate. He said, that's who I am.
It reflects my background, which it does, and if you
don't like it, then you know. I hope that it's
not going to have you too badly wait post for
the kinds of words that he said.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I hope I've got into your brain, and I hope
I've infected you enough to go to him and say
to him, no, no, no, you're okay, carry on with
the corporate talk. It's fine.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Will I will let him know I'm seeing him later
tonight and I'll say here, this is stay corporate, be
who you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Are, talent straight, and that's when the demise of the
National Party probably starts. Taking my advice, but please pass
it on. It's not as bad as he thinks. Now, listen,
why is it on the Family Boost right Why is
it that only thirty three thousand families have claimed this
childcare subsidy.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, if anyone is listening right now and they have
a child in early childhood education and they've paid fees
in the last few months, please go on to the
IRD website and apply for your Family Boost payment. On average,
families have got about three hundred and fifty dollars out
of that. That's well worth getting. That's obviously more than
(03:50):
fifteen hundred dollars a year. So my advice is go
on and apply for it. I know that when you've
got young kids and you're busy and you're working, going
onto a website can seem like a pain, but it
is worth it. There are literally hundreds of dollars available
to you and it goes straight into your bank account.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Is this a problem that it's just far too complicated
a system.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
No, it's not complicated. I've had direct feedback from people
have said, Look, it was a bit of a mental
barrier for me should I go onto the website that
I went on, and it was easy, it was straightforward,
So that's the feedback I've had. Look, as I've said previously,
either I would have much preferred it if no one
had to fill in any form, it didn't have to
go onto a website. But the alternative to this approach
was a two year delay, and I wanted New Zealand
(04:33):
families getting that money now, which is why we've gone
with this system.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
How many families are getting that full amount.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The full nine hundred and seventy five, I'm not sure.
But in order to get that full amount, you would
have to have paid the maximum amount of fees and
you would have to be on a low income.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, because the average at the moment is about thirty
two bucks is it a week or something like that.
That's quite low, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, that's fifteen hundred dollars a year, Heather, and actually
that's pretty meaningful if you're a young family. That's a
lot of money. That's a lot of groceries, that's a
lot of baby clothes, that's a lot of formula. And
so i've heard labor today pulling that amount of money,
and I just put to them, stay in touch with
the reality of what it's like when you've got a
baby at home and you've got a lot of costs
(05:17):
to meet. Actually, thirty bucks a week, that's me.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, absolutely fair point. But thirty bucks a week is
a lot lower than was patch right, and it was
pittched about one hundred and fifty bucks a fortnight. What's
that seventy five bucks a week, So it's about half
of the maximum.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, we were always clear hither and I remain clear
that that's the maximum available, and people are eligible for
a range depending on how big the childhood fees are
and how big their incomers. And that's right because our
approach in the National Party is that we like to
target support to those who need it most.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
How do you feel about west pax bumper profit.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, look, as I've said previously, what concerns me is
that our banks aren't competitive enough. And what the Commis
Commission has said is that they are more profitable than
others around the world. And what I want to see
is more competition so that we get a better deal
for New Zealand customers.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Do you think, because I see Catherine McGrath, who's the
Westpac CEO, is going to be before the Parliamentary Select
Committee in about two weeks time, do you feel like
this Parliamentary Select Comittee is actually getting anything yet?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Well, I think it's got a lot more hearings to
go and a lot more detail to dig into. I
know the questions that New Zealanders ask me about is
why don't banks lend more to the productive sector, to
businesses and farms that could generate economic growth for the country.
They ask me why sometimes these appears to be a
delay between the official cash rates falling and mortgage rates falling.
(06:41):
They ask me why they don't get a better deal
compared to Australia, where some of the online banking products
seem better so I imagine all of those questions will
emerge in the Select Committee over the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Do you feel like you've got anything out of the
thing so far? Are you there?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And chief executiatives of the major banks being held accountable
by Parliament? That New Zealand's representatives can ask those chief
executives questions directly and that they can explore these issues
in depth. Yes, I think there's value in that.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Okay do you think I mean, I've seen some predictions
that this FTA that we've just signed with the GCC
will be the last of the FDAs that we sign.
What do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, I don't think that's true. You know, Todd McClay ll.
Credit to him. This is something that we've been going
for almost twenty years New Zealand. He's been in as
Trade Minister for a year and he's nailed it. He's
delivered it and that's a great benefit to our exporters.
And I think there could be more to come, because
what you are seeing is that a range of countries
now are pursuing these bilateral agreements rather than just relying
(07:47):
on multi lateral you know, multi country agreements, and there
is more potential for New Zealand in the future.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Where would the next one be.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, of course, one of the areas that we're very
keen to progress stronger trade with US India. That's a
country that's on the agenda, and when we look around
the world there will be where we want to reduce
those chafts.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Hey, do you want to have a punted picking who
wins on Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is this because of your own personal credibility or is
this for diplomatic reasons?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Look, I have I'm allowed personal views, but as a
guardian of New Zealand's diplomatic interests, it is not appropriate
for me to be running wages on the next US president.
I'll leave that in the hands of American voters.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Fair enough, Hey, Nicola, thank you as always appreciated. Nichola
Willis our Finance Minister.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks the'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
What's what's down on, what were the major callus and
how will it affect the economy? A big business question
on the Business Hour with Heather Duplicy, Allen and my
Hr on News Talks Evy.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Evening. Coming up in the next hour, Shane Soley's going
to talk us through whether the markets are still pricing
at Trump when Keir we Bank will talk us through
why some millennials are still really really gloomy about ever
owning a home. And Gavin Gray's with us out of
the UK seven pass six. Nicola Willis Finance Minister with us. Now, Hey, Nicola,
good evening here. That did you make of the Prime
minister calling voters customers?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I think it was just a slip of the tang.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Why are you apologizing for it?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Why are you alogizing for it?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm I'm not apologizing for it at all. I think
there was a slip of the tangue. I think, as
he said himself, he does come from a corporate background,
a commercial background. He's always thinking about delivery. He knows
New Zealanders are New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, okay, maybe you're not apologizing for it, but you're
explaining it. But why, I mean what's wrong with him
calling voters customers?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, you asked me why, and I think it was
just a slip of the tongue. That's all I think
there is to it. I reckon New Zealand has bigger
challenges than whether or not the Prime Minister describes people
as customers. No, I think New Zealand voters would rather
we were focused on those challenges. Of course, RB and semantics.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But why is the Prime Minister always apologizing for his
corporate speak. He should lean into this stuff. This is
the stuff he's good at, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well. I think that he is very good at getting
driven on outcomes and objectives and targets and accountability. But
he also responds to the questions that he gets asked
by the press and by members of the press gallery.
And that was one of the lines of questioning today,
So he rightfully answered their question.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Explain this to me, because I don't understand this account
I'm looking at. I'm looking at Chris lux and the
guy from Unilever, the guy from a New Zealand. He
was good at business. He comes to politics as he
brings his corporate speak with him. It feels perfectly natural
to me. And as a voter, I'm I'm pretty fine
about him actually trying to drive business efficiency out of
the government. Right, So why is it that there appears
(02:07):
to be this kind of move within the National Party
or within the government whatever. I don't know, Maybe it's
from your media mind, is why drive this out of him?
Why not let him actually just be the corporate guy.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Ah, certainly we let him be the corporate guy in
the sense of having those quarterly plans, those targets, driving
results against them. And frankly, if he calls New Zealand
customers and the result of that is that they get
better service, then I don't really think anyone minds what
they call? Do they?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Okay? So why did he apologize for it?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Did he apologize so much as to say it was
a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, what he said in the end, I think, and
I'm kind of paraphrasing it, but he did acknowledge that
he needs to sound a little less corporate.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I think he's just he's noted that some people criticize
them for sounding corporate. He said, that's who I am.
It reflects my background, which it does, and if you
don't like it, then you know. I hope that it's
not going to have you too badly wait post for
the kinds of words that he said.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I hope I've got into your brain, and I hope
I've infected you enough to go to him and say
to him, no, no, no, you're okay, carry on with
the corporate talk. It's fine.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Will I will let him know I'm seeing him later
tonight and I'll say here, this is stay corporate, be
who you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Are, talent straight, and that's when the demise of the
National Party probably starts. Taking my advice, but please pass
it on. It's not as bad as he thinks. Now, listen,
why is it on the Family Boost right Why is
it that only thirty three thousand families have claimed this
childcare subsidy.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Well, if anyone is listening right now and they have
a child in early childhood education and they've paid fees
in the last few months, please go on to the
IRD website and apply for your Family Boost payment. On average,
families have got about three hundred and fifty dollars out
of that. That's well worth getting. That's obviously more than
(03:50):
fifteen hundred dollars a year. So my advice is go
on and apply for it. I know that when you've
got young kids and you're busy and you're working, going
onto a website can seem like a pain, but it
is worth it. There are literally hundreds of dollars available
to you and it goes straight into your bank account.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Is this a problem that it's just far too complicated
a system.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
No, it's not complicated. I've had direct feedback from people
have said, Look, it was a bit of a mental
barrier for me should I go onto the website that
I went on, and it was easy, it was straightforward,
So that's the feedback I've had. Look, as I've said previously,
either I would have much preferred it if no one
had to fill in any form, it didn't have to
go onto a website. But the alternative to this approach
was a two year delay, and I wanted New Zealand
(04:33):
families getting that money now, which is why we've gone
with this system.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
How many families are getting that full amount.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The full nine hundred and seventy five, I'm not sure.
But in order to get that full amount, you would
have to have paid the maximum amount of fees and
you would have to be on a low income.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, because the average at the moment is about thirty
two bucks is it a week or something like that.
That's quite low, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, that's fifteen hundred dollars a year, Heather, and actually
that's pretty meaningful if you're a young family. That's a
lot of money. That's a lot of groceries, that's a
lot of baby clothes, that's a lot of formula. And
so i've heard labor today pulling that amount of money,
and I just put to them, stay in touch with
the reality of what it's like when you've got a
baby at home and you've got a lot of costs
(05:17):
to meet. Actually, thirty bucks a week, that's me.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, absolutely fair point. But thirty bucks a week is
a lot lower than was patch right, and it was
pittched about one hundred and fifty bucks a fortnight. What's
that seventy five bucks a week, So it's about half
of the maximum.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, we were always clear hither and I remain clear
that that's the maximum available, and people are eligible for
a range depending on how big the childhood fees are
and how big their incomers. And that's right because our
approach in the National Party is that we like to
target support to those who need it most.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
How do you feel about west pax bumper profit.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, look, as I've said previously, what concerns me is
that our banks aren't competitive enough. And what the Commis
Commission has said is that they are more profitable than
others around the world. And what I want to see
is more competition so that we get a better deal
for New Zealand customers.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Do you think, because I see Catherine McGrath, who's the
Westpac CEO, is going to be before the Parliamentary Select
Committee in about two weeks time, do you feel like
this Parliamentary Select Comittee is actually getting anything yet?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Well, I think it's got a lot more hearings to
go and a lot more detail to dig into. I
know the questions that New Zealanders ask me about is
why don't banks lend more to the productive sector, to
businesses and farms that could generate economic growth for the country.
They ask me why sometimes these appears to be a
delay between the official cash rates falling and mortgage rates falling.
(06:41):
They ask me why they don't get a better deal
compared to Australia, where some of the online banking products
seem better so I imagine all of those questions will
emerge in the Select Committee over the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Do you feel like you've got anything out of the
thing so far? Are you there?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And chief executiatives of the major banks being held accountable
by Parliament? That New Zealand's representatives can ask those chief
executives questions directly and that they can explore these issues
in depth. Yes, I think there's value in that.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Okay do you think I mean, I've seen some predictions
that this FTA that we've just signed with the GCC
will be the last of the FDAs that we sign.
What do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, I don't think that's true. You know, Todd McClay ll.
Credit to him. This is something that we've been going
for almost twenty years New Zealand. He's been in as
Trade Minister for a year and he's nailed it. He's
delivered it and that's a great benefit to our exporters.
And I think there could be more to come, because
what you are seeing is that a range of countries
now are pursuing these bilateral agreements rather than just relying
(07:47):
on multi lateral you know, multi country agreements, and there
is more potential for New Zealand in the future.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Where would the next one be.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, of course, one of the areas that we're very
keen to progress stronger trade with US India. That's a
country that's on the agenda, and when we look around
the world there will be where we want to reduce
those chafts.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Hey, do you want to have a punted picking who
wins on Wednesday?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is this because of your own personal credibility or is
this for diplomatic reasons?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Look, I have I'm allowed personal views, but as a
guardian of New Zealand's diplomatic interests, it is not appropriate
for me to be running wages on the next US president.
I'll leave that in the hands of American voters.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Fair enough, Hey, Nicola, thank you as always appreciated. Nichola
Willis our Finance Minister.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks the'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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