November 11, 2024 • 9 mins
The Finance Minister says she's not jumping to conclusions on whether New Zealand will be affected by potential Donald Trump Administration tariffs.
The president-elect has proposed tariffs of up to 20 percent on imported goods from most trading partners.
Nicola Willis says the current trade settings with US seem to be working.
"It's clear the Americans like what we're selling. Equally, we import a heck of a lot from the Americans - it works for both sides. We have a close, positive relationship."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nikola Willis, of course, is the Finance Minister. Hi Nikola, Hello,
heav are you doing anything about this IID privacy breach?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Look, the IID have obviously made that information known to
the Privacy Commissioner and it's now a matter for the
Privacy Commissioner.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Did they explain to you how this happened?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
They have given me a briefing at their view that
this is a small error and they are doing what's
right in the situation, which is they're sharing all of
the information with the Privacy Commissioner so that they can
make any findings that may be necessary.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'll tell you what I find weird about this and
can't quite get my head around, is if they have
got all of this information on us, and they do,
If they've got all this information on us and they
need to get ahold of us, why aren't they just
getting a hold of us. Why are they giving the
information to Facebook and LinkedIn and these guys try to
get a hold of us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, there's two separate things here. The first is, yes,
they can get hold of us they want to. The
second thing is often what IID want to make sure
people have is good information about their tacks. Entitlements and obligations,
and so they have historically used social media as a
way of targeting information at relevant taxpayers. They've obviously reviewed
(01:11):
the way that they've done that. They've made a decision
not to do that anymore, in line with their commitment
to upholding the higher standards of privacy. And that's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, but I don't get it. I mean, so if
they're like, Okay, Heather needs to HEATHERN needs to know
that she needs to pay her taxes by the end
of the financial year, why don't they just send me
an email? Why are they giving money to Facebook?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not everyone opens their email? Do that? And people spend
a lot of time scrolling on Facebook and social media.
Think it simply about the IID trying to bring information
to where people are.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But surely you're going to have a higher chance of
the person opening the email than the person potentially seeing
it on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Look. I think the nature of this kind of advertising
was that they were able to target particular information at
groups of people to whom it was BALI us.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yes, let's literally what you do with an email which
is free.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Look, I don't think the IID would have done this
practice unless they believe that it was a better way
to get information.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Really, you have too much confidence, and then they just
hand it over The details were two hundred and seventy
thousand people to these guys.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't think that's right. They have assured me that
they scrubbed data in a way that no one's individual.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Not in the case of the two hundred, not in
the case of the quarter million, right in the case
of the quarter million, they just hand it over all data.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, in this case, I want New Zealanders who are
listening to your show to know that their individual tax
information hasn't been compromised. There has been an issue here
that has been brought to the attention of the Privacy Commissioner,
and IID are making sure that they are using best
practice in future.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Do you think can you be absolutely sure though, that
they are not just wasting money on advertising for the
sake of wasting money on advertising.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I'm pretty comf about that heither, because there's a couple
of things that are important to me. One that people
are who are due tax refunds or a DOE money
back know that and are getting their entitlement. And two
that where the government is o tax IID are chasing
that hard, and so it's important that the IID use
(03:19):
the resources it has to go after both of those things.
As I say, they've reviewed this practice, they're not using
it in future. That's a good thing, Okay, are they like? Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I can understand that maybe there are some numpties out
there who never check the email accounts. It would be
a very few of them. But are the IID before
they're hitting Facebook and LinkedIn to try and advertise it us.
Are they first just sending us a free email and
then if we're not opening it and responding, then they're
going for the advertising.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Look, they may be. You'd have to talk to them
to understand the detail of their practices, But I just
do want to be a bit real world here. Okay.
A lot of people get a lot of emails, and
it's not necessarily the case every email gets opened, but
sometimes we see things flash up on our social media
account and that can be a promptu action. So I
(04:08):
know that it's the practice of many organizations to do both,
to do both email and advertising on other digital platforms.
I don't think that's an unusual thing.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, Listen, have you caught up on this business about
the banks forcing our dairy farmers to emit less than
the Aussie dairy farmers.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Look, I have heard a little bit about that. I
haven't been briefed fully on it. It's something I'm interested in.
It's one of the matters I expect the Parliamentary Selectmmittee
inquiry will want to delve deeper into.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Have you asked you haven't talked to the banks then
if you've just got the first hint of what's going on,
you haven't have a chat to them.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yet, not yet. But as I say, this is one
of the issues that I think the Parliamentary Selectmmittee should
inquire into. They should be asking questions of the banks
about it. It's important we get full information about this.
Where I'm coming from is I want a growing productive
economy that means farmers having access to capital, that means
farmers being able to expand and grow and export more.
(05:03):
And I don't want the bank standing in the way
of that.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
No, And on the face of it, do you feel
I feel slightly uncomfortable that banks are getting involved in
the climate stuff with our farmers? What about you?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well? The thing that particularly struck me when I heard
your conversation with Jamie Mackay about this issue was that
there was a sense that there might be different rules
at play in New Zealand. Yes, there are than in Australia,
and that worries me because I want there to be
at the very least a level playing field, and if
I'm honest, I want it to be even easier for
New Zealand farmers than Ossie farmers. And so any idea
(05:35):
that it's been made harder for our farmers to access capital,
that the Ossie banks are mating it making it hard
for Kiwi farmers, I don't like the smell of that.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No, not at all. Okay, listen, is it true that
some public servants are not allowed to use Uber and
they have to use taxis?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah? Look, I understand that there has been a guideline
from the Department of Internal Affairs discouraging the use of Uber.
Now this has been brought to the MS of the
Public Service Commission. They're having a look at it. I'm
going to fess up right here right now. I use
Uber pretty regularly. I pay for it personally, and the
reason I do that is it's convenient, it's cheap, and
(06:12):
I love chatting with Uber drivers.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Did do you know why?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Did you say it was inland revenue or who was it?
Internal Affairs?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The Department of Internal Affairs?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Why did they say no Uber?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, look, you'd have to ask them about that. But
as I say, this is something I'm very open for
change in because you know, technology changes, the way people
do things changes, and it seems just to me perhaps
a little old fashioned.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Too right, and it's miles cheaper. Now, have you do
you reckon you? Or have we as a country gotten
in with Trump? Because Elon loves Christopher MUCKs the Christopher Luxon.
Oh my gosh, I've made one person out of two people,
Christopher Luxon, Elon loves Luxon.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Interesting that come to my mind with that description. Look,
both the Prime Minister and the Minister for Foreigner Fears
have been very careful to make sure they have relationships
in place with both Republican and Democratic side of politics
coming under the presidential election, and I think that there's
every reason to believe that New Zealand can have a
(07:14):
close relationship with the incoming administration. Obviously, there's big points
of commonality between the United States of America and New Zealand.
There's many things which are in our dual interests to pursue.
Does it help that Elon says nice things about the
New Zealand Prime minister on Twitter?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Probably if Trump does go ahead and pull out of
the Paris Accord, does that basically mean the thing falls over?
That's over, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well? Look, I wouldn't jump into judgment there. Obviously, the
new administration hasn't even started yet. How they engage with
those global treaties is yet to be seen. But for
New Zealand's part, we have a Zero Carbon Act in law.
We're on track to deliver to those objectives, reducing admissions,
having renewable affordable energy. Those are good thing regardless of
(08:01):
what happens with those international treaties.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
If he pulls the funding from Ukraine, do we pull
the funding from Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I would not jump into speculating on that either. That's
a matter for the Foreign Affairs Minister. I'm sure that
it's something that he will be considering. But again, far
too soon to judge how the United States will respond,
and of course the administration doesn't start till next year.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So but to order to go into the bridge to then,
how do you rate the chances that we get slapped
with tariffs.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, look, here's what I reckon. Trade is about, the
exchange of value for it makes sense. It needs to
benefit both sides. And when I look at New Zealand's
growing trade relationship with the United States, whether it's red meat,
whether it's wine, whether it's tourism, it's clear the Americans
like what we're selling. Equally, we import a hic of
a lot from the Americans. It works for both sides.
(08:51):
We have a close, positive relationship. So if there's any
country in the world that the United States should look
favorably upon in trade, I'd pick New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Nicholas, thank you, always appreciate your time. That's Nichola Willis,
the Finance Minister. Do you get the feeling Nichola didn't
know that the IID had handed over the private details
of two hundred and seventy thousand people without even encrypted,
Do you do? I felt like that was new information
to her, that they'd made that big whoopsie with the
raw data and just handed it over to like, whoop,
(09:22):
here you go, Facebook, here's all of Heather's contact details.
I feel like that was news to her. What do
you think For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen
live to news talks I'd Be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Nikola Willis, of course, is the Finance Minister. Hi Nikola, Hello,
heav are you doing anything about this IID privacy breach?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Look, the IID have obviously made that information known to
the Privacy Commissioner and it's now a matter for the
Privacy Commissioner.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Did they explain to you how this happened?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
They have given me a briefing at their view that
this is a small error and they are doing what's
right in the situation, which is they're sharing all of
the information with the Privacy Commissioner so that they can
make any findings that may be necessary.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'll tell you what I find weird about this and
can't quite get my head around, is if they have
got all of this information on us, and they do,
If they've got all this information on us and they
need to get ahold of us, why aren't they just
getting a hold of us. Why are they giving the
information to Facebook and LinkedIn and these guys try to
get a hold of us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, there's two separate things here. The first is, yes,
they can get hold of us they want to. The
second thing is often what IID want to make sure
people have is good information about their tacks. Entitlements and obligations,
and so they have historically used social media as a
way of targeting information at relevant taxpayers. They've obviously reviewed
(01:11):
the way that they've done that. They've made a decision
not to do that anymore, in line with their commitment
to upholding the higher standards of privacy. And that's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, but I don't get it. I mean, so if
they're like, Okay, Heather needs to HEATHERN needs to know
that she needs to pay her taxes by the end
of the financial year, why don't they just send me
an email? Why are they giving money to Facebook?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not everyone opens their email? Do that? And people spend
a lot of time scrolling on Facebook and social media.
Think it simply about the IID trying to bring information
to where people are.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But surely you're going to have a higher chance of
the person opening the email than the person potentially seeing
it on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Look. I think the nature of this kind of advertising
was that they were able to target particular information at
groups of people to whom it was BALI us.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yes, let's literally what you do with an email which
is free.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Look, I don't think the IID would have done this
practice unless they believe that it was a better way
to get information.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Really, you have too much confidence, and then they just
hand it over The details were two hundred and seventy
thousand people to these guys.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't think that's right. They have assured me that
they scrubbed data in a way that no one's individual.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Not in the case of the two hundred, not in
the case of the quarter million, right in the case
of the quarter million, they just hand it over all data.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, in this case, I want New Zealanders who are
listening to your show to know that their individual tax
information hasn't been compromised. There has been an issue here
that has been brought to the attention of the Privacy Commissioner,
and IID are making sure that they are using best
practice in future.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Do you think can you be absolutely sure though, that
they are not just wasting money on advertising for the
sake of wasting money on advertising.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I'm pretty comf about that heither, because there's a couple
of things that are important to me. One that people
are who are due tax refunds or a DOE money
back know that and are getting their entitlement. And two
that where the government is o tax IID are chasing
that hard, and so it's important that the IID use
(03:19):
the resources it has to go after both of those things.
As I say, they've reviewed this practice, they're not using
it in future. That's a good thing, Okay, are they like? Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I can understand that maybe there are some numpties out
there who never check the email accounts. It would be
a very few of them. But are the IID before
they're hitting Facebook and LinkedIn to try and advertise it us.
Are they first just sending us a free email and
then if we're not opening it and responding, then they're
going for the advertising.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Look, they may be. You'd have to talk to them
to understand the detail of their practices, But I just
do want to be a bit real world here. Okay.
A lot of people get a lot of emails, and
it's not necessarily the case every email gets opened, but
sometimes we see things flash up on our social media
account and that can be a promptu action. So I
(04:08):
know that it's the practice of many organizations to do both,
to do both email and advertising on other digital platforms.
I don't think that's an unusual thing.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, Listen, have you caught up on this business about
the banks forcing our dairy farmers to emit less than
the Aussie dairy farmers.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Look, I have heard a little bit about that. I
haven't been briefed fully on it. It's something I'm interested in.
It's one of the matters I expect the Parliamentary Selectmmittee
inquiry will want to delve deeper into.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Have you asked you haven't talked to the banks then
if you've just got the first hint of what's going on,
you haven't have a chat to them.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yet, not yet. But as I say, this is one
of the issues that I think the Parliamentary Selectmmittee should
inquire into. They should be asking questions of the banks
about it. It's important we get full information about this.
Where I'm coming from is I want a growing productive
economy that means farmers having access to capital, that means
farmers being able to expand and grow and export more.
(05:03):
And I don't want the bank standing in the way
of that.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
No, And on the face of it, do you feel
I feel slightly uncomfortable that banks are getting involved in
the climate stuff with our farmers? What about you?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well? The thing that particularly struck me when I heard
your conversation with Jamie Mackay about this issue was that
there was a sense that there might be different rules
at play in New Zealand. Yes, there are than in Australia,
and that worries me because I want there to be
at the very least a level playing field, and if
I'm honest, I want it to be even easier for
New Zealand farmers than Ossie farmers. And so any idea
(05:35):
that it's been made harder for our farmers to access capital,
that the Ossie banks are mating it making it hard
for Kiwi farmers, I don't like the smell of that.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
No, not at all. Okay, listen, is it true that
some public servants are not allowed to use Uber and
they have to use taxis?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah? Look, I understand that there has been a guideline
from the Department of Internal Affairs discouraging the use of Uber.
Now this has been brought to the MS of the
Public Service Commission. They're having a look at it. I'm
going to fess up right here right now. I use
Uber pretty regularly. I pay for it personally, and the
reason I do that is it's convenient, it's cheap, and
(06:12):
I love chatting with Uber drivers.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Did do you know why?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Did you say it was inland revenue or who was it?
Internal Affairs?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The Department of Internal Affairs?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Why did they say no Uber?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, look, you'd have to ask them about that. But
as I say, this is something I'm very open for
change in because you know, technology changes, the way people
do things changes, and it seems just to me perhaps
a little old fashioned.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Too right, and it's miles cheaper. Now, have you do
you reckon you? Or have we as a country gotten
in with Trump? Because Elon loves Christopher MUCKs the Christopher Luxon.
Oh my gosh, I've made one person out of two people,
Christopher Luxon, Elon loves Luxon.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Interesting that come to my mind with that description. Look,
both the Prime Minister and the Minister for Foreigner Fears
have been very careful to make sure they have relationships
in place with both Republican and Democratic side of politics
coming under the presidential election, and I think that there's
every reason to believe that New Zealand can have a
(07:14):
close relationship with the incoming administration. Obviously, there's big points
of commonality between the United States of America and New Zealand.
There's many things which are in our dual interests to pursue.
Does it help that Elon says nice things about the
New Zealand Prime minister on Twitter?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Probably if Trump does go ahead and pull out of
the Paris Accord, does that basically mean the thing falls over?
That's over, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well? Look, I wouldn't jump into judgment there. Obviously, the
new administration hasn't even started yet. How they engage with
those global treaties is yet to be seen. But for
New Zealand's part, we have a Zero Carbon Act in law.
We're on track to deliver to those objectives, reducing admissions,
having renewable affordable energy. Those are good thing regardless of
(08:01):
what happens with those international treaties.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
If he pulls the funding from Ukraine, do we pull
the funding from Ukraine?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I would not jump into speculating on that either. That's
a matter for the Foreign Affairs Minister. I'm sure that
it's something that he will be considering. But again, far
too soon to judge how the United States will respond,
and of course the administration doesn't start till next year.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So but to order to go into the bridge to then,
how do you rate the chances that we get slapped
with tariffs.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, look, here's what I reckon. Trade is about, the
exchange of value for it makes sense. It needs to
benefit both sides. And when I look at New Zealand's
growing trade relationship with the United States, whether it's red meat,
whether it's wine, whether it's tourism, it's clear the Americans
like what we're selling. Equally, we import a hic of
a lot from the Americans. It works for both sides.
(08:51):
We have a close, positive relationship. So if there's any
country in the world that the United States should look
favorably upon in trade, I'd pick New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Nicholas, thank you, always appreciate your time. That's Nichola Willis,
the Finance Minister. Do you get the feeling Nichola didn't
know that the IID had handed over the private details
of two hundred and seventy thousand people without even encrypted,
Do you do? I felt like that was new information
to her, that they'd made that big whoopsie with the
raw data and just handed it over to like, whoop,
(09:22):
here you go, Facebook, here's all of Heather's contact details.
I feel like that was news to her. What do
you think For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen
live to news talks I'd Be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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