November 18, 2024 • 7 mins
The Media and Communications Minister says he's working his way through the process when it comes a new law that would force tech giants to pay for news content.
The Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill was set to have its second reading in Parliament last week, but it wasn't ready.
Paul Goldsmith says it's a difficult issue.
"The broader issue of how you corral one of the biggest companies in the world and have a conversation around how that works - it's not straightforward."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Heather duper Cela.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Paul Goldsmith is the Justice Minister and Broadcasting Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Paul, Hello, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm very well? Thank you. Now is it true that
your members are already hitting you with emails upset you're
not supporting the Treaty Principal's bill.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, we've got a lot of members and we've got
a lot of different opinions. There are some sending emails
like that, there are some saying, you know, move faster
to kill it off. The I mean there's a wide
variety of views.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And how does it split so in support versus not
in support.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I don't know, I haven't counted, say.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Probably more in support.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well it's a bot church party. I mean, we've got
a wide variety of views. But yeah, I mean I
think people I'm clearly very supportive of the National Party approach,
which is to say, well, this bill in particular crude
way to handle a delicate topic. But there are lots
of other things we're doing in this space, you know,
absolutely asserting well the importance of trying to you know,
(00:58):
honor treaty settlements, work our way through that process while
never losing sight of the normal expectations of people living
in the modern democracy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Did you get emails? Did you personally get emails?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I've got lots of emails.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How many did you get?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I don't know. I haven't counted.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Do you want to happen?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But I get lots of you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You can look again on your phone.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I don't sit at the end of the day and say, well,
I've got ninety three emails on the stocky, But I.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Mean, like, okay, so if something quite big is going on,
if I was inundated with emails and suddenly my box
went from having two hundred in a normal day to
like a thousand, I would see that there was quite
a swelling of the box. Is that what's going on
with you?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well? No, I honestly couldn't tell you. I mean if
I literally did that, I would do nothing else all day.
I mean that that's what I have an office to
work my way through. But yeah, Look, there's a lot
of interest in this topic. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
The reason I'm asking you about this is because that
email that you sent out on Thursday explaining to people
look like explaining is losing it. Like it looks like
you guys are under massive pressure from your members.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
No, look, I mean that's a that's a a trite,
a journalistic phrase. Explaining is losing. Actually, what people wanted
to hear was what what's our what's our thinking on
this topic? And I explained that and outlined it and
explained why we were doing what we're doing, and what,
you know, what the other things were doing in the space.
And you know, it's a perfectly logical way of explaining
(02:19):
a policy position on a topic of the day.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, And so when you sent out that email that,
did people go oh, that makes perfect sense or did
you actually just get help With a flurry of emails
thereafter people not happy with that explanation.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, again, you get a variety of opinions. Yes, a
lot of people say, oh, well that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I mean, yes, they come down, I know that all that,
they're right on the money, that little variety. Yeah, but
that old variety of opinions thing is always what you're
trying to say is here, we've got a lot of
bad emails. Actually, there were a few in support, not
that any.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, no, no, no, I wouldn't say that at all.
I mean, I mean, I think, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Guys are in trouble Paul, you know that though you
are in trouble on this bill because it was a
bad idea to let it happen and then kill it
off like we've still got six months to go in
the Select Committee.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, I mean, I don't need to explain to you
the mechanics of MMP. That is the system that we're
voted for as a country. And so we've got six
parties in Parliament and each six of them have a
slightly different view on a whole range of issues.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay, you keep on blaming MP if you want to,
but nobody buys this anymore because it looks like poor leadership.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well but there's nothing. I mean, it's a politics in
New Zealand is a numbers game. You have to get
to sixty one to pass votes and to form a government.
To get to sixty one to form a government, you
have to make everything that compromise, he says, though, Well,
we certainly didn't, and they wanted to have a referendum.
We didn't agree to that. We read to introduce the bill.
Have a first reason, I'll tell you what the concerns
(03:48):
and we take it from there.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'll tell you what you could have agreed to what
the act Party said, and then you could let the
thing run its course. But it's the killing in the
middle that's the problem for the NATS, because you're not
satisfying anybody, right. People who want to see this bill
taken to the end point are going to be angry.
People who don't want to see this bill at all
are going to be angry. So who are you actually pleasing?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, it's a challenging topic, but I mean, I think
the issue is that people saw over the past six
years under cinder Dern and her government, that there were
a number of issues that people were concerned about in
the space, particularly around local government, voting rights and the
MARI Health Authority. And so I think it's absolutely a
topic that people are grappling with, and it's not a
(04:26):
simple one, and that's a basic point I was making now.
And of course all the coverage focuses on the more
I suppose dramatic comments, and that is a challenge that
you face in all issues like this, the moderate, kind
of careful considered viewpoint which says me, up, yes, we've
got an issue here. Absolutely, it's important to reinforce equality
(04:50):
and democracy, but also the unique elements of new Zealand
and the treaty relationship. We've got to work our way
through this issue by issue carefully. Yes, that doesn't get
the same deal of through in the press, but you
know it's essential and that's what you've got to do
when you're dealing with difficult topics.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Hey, Paul, are you have you heard it all from Simon?
What's over at COP twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I haven't talked to him personally, but he's over
there and he's doing good work working its way through
the issues.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, Because one of the big things they're deciding at
COP twenty nine is how much rich countries like ours
pay poor countries to cut emissions. How much are we
prepared to pay?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, look, I don't have an exact figure in front
of me, but you know where New Zealand is prepared
to be part of the global solution, and to.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
That's going to be a hard sellers challenging numbers, isn't it.
How do you go to Kiwis right now? Who can
see that our health system is breaking and all the
stuff is falling apart and we're sliding into second world
status that we somehow have to stump up potentially a
share of one trillion dollars has to go to countries
like the Congo to help them when we can't even
help ourselves.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Ye, well, look yes it are. But I mean, i
think the primary thing that we're focused on. I'm sure
what all your listeners want to hear is our unroll
holding plan to actually get some growth back into this
economy and creates and well, that's the critical thing we
can do right here, right now, and that's what we're
really focused on. And that's you know, that's what Nicola Willison,
Chris Luxen and everybody you know wakes up every morning
is how, you know, what can we do to get
(06:13):
some growth? And one of those fundamentals is getting the
fast straight legislation through, dealing with some of the regulation,
giving tax relief. Those are the sorts of things, getting
inflation under control so that interest rates can come down.
Those are the things that we're focused on. And that's
the most important thing. We forgot. We've really got to
get the economy cracking. And that's number one.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What did Google say to you a couple of weeks
ago that made you cave on that bill?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Did not cave on. There's no caving again. You're being delivery.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Then are you committed to the bill.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, we're working our way through the process and what
we've got here is, you know, I always said right
at the very start, this is a difficult issue because
what we're trying to grapple with is, you know, there's
massive change going on in the media and you know,
all credit to you, Heather and z b. You people
(07:08):
are doing well. You're attracting audiences, making money and that's great.
Not all the areas of the media are doing so well,
and so some of that might be pure competition. It
might be the factor in the recession. I mean, the
most important thing we can do for commercial media right
now to get the economy growing. Some people can spend
more on advertising and I actually make some money. But
the broader issue of how you corral you know, it's
(07:30):
one of the biggest companies in the world and have
a conversation around how that works is not straightforward and
I'm working my way through it. But when I've got
something to announce, you'll be the first to know.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I'm going to hold you to that. Paul, Thank you
very much, thank you for your time. That's Paul Goldsmith,
Justice Minister and Broadcasting ministers.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk zi B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Heather duper Cela.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Paul Goldsmith is the Justice Minister and Broadcasting Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Paul, Hello, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm very well? Thank you. Now is it true that
your members are already hitting you with emails upset you're
not supporting the Treaty Principal's bill.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, we've got a lot of members and we've got
a lot of different opinions. There are some sending emails
like that, there are some saying, you know, move faster
to kill it off. The I mean there's a wide
variety of views.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And how does it split so in support versus not
in support.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I don't know, I haven't counted, say.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Probably more in support.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well it's a bot church party. I mean, we've got
a wide variety of views. But yeah, I mean I
think people I'm clearly very supportive of the National Party approach,
which is to say, well, this bill in particular crude
way to handle a delicate topic. But there are lots
of other things we're doing in this space, you know,
absolutely asserting well the importance of trying to you know,
(00:58):
honor treaty settlements, work our way through that process while
never losing sight of the normal expectations of people living
in the modern democracy.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Did you get emails? Did you personally get emails?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I've got lots of emails.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How many did you get?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I don't know. I haven't counted.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Do you want to happen?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
But I get lots of you.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You can look again on your phone.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I don't sit at the end of the day and say, well,
I've got ninety three emails on the stocky, But I.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Mean, like, okay, so if something quite big is going on,
if I was inundated with emails and suddenly my box
went from having two hundred in a normal day to
like a thousand, I would see that there was quite
a swelling of the box. Is that what's going on
with you?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well? No, I honestly couldn't tell you. I mean if
I literally did that, I would do nothing else all day.
I mean that that's what I have an office to
work my way through. But yeah, Look, there's a lot
of interest in this topic. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
The reason I'm asking you about this is because that
email that you sent out on Thursday explaining to people
look like explaining is losing it. Like it looks like
you guys are under massive pressure from your members.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
No, look, I mean that's a that's a a trite,
a journalistic phrase. Explaining is losing. Actually, what people wanted
to hear was what what's our what's our thinking on
this topic? And I explained that and outlined it and
explained why we were doing what we're doing, and what,
you know, what the other things were doing in the space.
And you know, it's a perfectly logical way of explaining
(02:19):
a policy position on a topic of the day.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, And so when you sent out that email that,
did people go oh, that makes perfect sense or did
you actually just get help With a flurry of emails
thereafter people not happy with that explanation.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, again, you get a variety of opinions. Yes, a
lot of people say, oh, well that's good.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I mean, yes, they come down, I know that all that,
they're right on the money, that little variety. Yeah, but
that old variety of opinions thing is always what you're
trying to say is here, we've got a lot of
bad emails. Actually, there were a few in support, not
that any.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, no, no, no, I wouldn't say that at all.
I mean, I mean, I think, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Guys are in trouble Paul, you know that though you
are in trouble on this bill because it was a
bad idea to let it happen and then kill it
off like we've still got six months to go in
the Select Committee.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, I mean, I don't need to explain to you
the mechanics of MMP. That is the system that we're
voted for as a country. And so we've got six
parties in Parliament and each six of them have a
slightly different view on a whole range of issues.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay, you keep on blaming MP if you want to,
but nobody buys this anymore because it looks like poor leadership.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well but there's nothing. I mean, it's a politics in
New Zealand is a numbers game. You have to get
to sixty one to pass votes and to form a government.
To get to sixty one to form a government, you
have to make everything that compromise, he says, though, Well,
we certainly didn't, and they wanted to have a referendum.
We didn't agree to that. We read to introduce the bill.
Have a first reason, I'll tell you what the concerns
(03:48):
and we take it from there.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'll tell you what you could have agreed to what
the act Party said, and then you could let the
thing run its course. But it's the killing in the
middle that's the problem for the NATS, because you're not
satisfying anybody, right. People who want to see this bill
taken to the end point are going to be angry.
People who don't want to see this bill at all
are going to be angry. So who are you actually pleasing?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, it's a challenging topic, but I mean, I think
the issue is that people saw over the past six
years under cinder Dern and her government, that there were
a number of issues that people were concerned about in
the space, particularly around local government, voting rights and the
MARI Health Authority. And so I think it's absolutely a
topic that people are grappling with, and it's not a
(04:26):
simple one, and that's a basic point I was making now.
And of course all the coverage focuses on the more
I suppose dramatic comments, and that is a challenge that
you face in all issues like this, the moderate, kind
of careful considered viewpoint which says me, up, yes, we've
got an issue here. Absolutely, it's important to reinforce equality
(04:50):
and democracy, but also the unique elements of new Zealand
and the treaty relationship. We've got to work our way
through this issue by issue carefully. Yes, that doesn't get
the same deal of through in the press, but you
know it's essential and that's what you've got to do
when you're dealing with difficult topics.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Hey, Paul, are you have you heard it all from Simon?
What's over at COP twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I haven't talked to him personally, but he's over
there and he's doing good work working its way through
the issues.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, Because one of the big things they're deciding at
COP twenty nine is how much rich countries like ours
pay poor countries to cut emissions. How much are we
prepared to pay?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well, look, I don't have an exact figure in front
of me, but you know where New Zealand is prepared
to be part of the global solution, and to.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
That's going to be a hard sellers challenging numbers, isn't it.
How do you go to Kiwis right now? Who can
see that our health system is breaking and all the
stuff is falling apart and we're sliding into second world
status that we somehow have to stump up potentially a
share of one trillion dollars has to go to countries
like the Congo to help them when we can't even
help ourselves.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Ye, well, look yes it are. But I mean, i
think the primary thing that we're focused on. I'm sure
what all your listeners want to hear is our unroll
holding plan to actually get some growth back into this
economy and creates and well, that's the critical thing we
can do right here, right now, and that's what we're
really focused on. And that's you know, that's what Nicola Willison,
Chris Luxen and everybody you know wakes up every morning
is how, you know, what can we do to get
(06:13):
some growth? And one of those fundamentals is getting the
fast straight legislation through, dealing with some of the regulation,
giving tax relief. Those are the sorts of things, getting
inflation under control so that interest rates can come down.
Those are the things that we're focused on. And that's
the most important thing. We forgot. We've really got to
get the economy cracking. And that's number one.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What did Google say to you a couple of weeks
ago that made you cave on that bill?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Did not cave on. There's no caving again. You're being delivery.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Then are you committed to the bill.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, we're working our way through the process and what
we've got here is, you know, I always said right
at the very start, this is a difficult issue because
what we're trying to grapple with is, you know, there's
massive change going on in the media and you know,
all credit to you, Heather and z b. You people
(07:08):
are doing well. You're attracting audiences, making money and that's great.
Not all the areas of the media are doing so well,
and so some of that might be pure competition. It
might be the factor in the recession. I mean, the
most important thing we can do for commercial media right
now to get the economy growing. Some people can spend
more on advertising and I actually make some money. But
the broader issue of how you corral you know, it's
(07:30):
one of the biggest companies in the world and have
a conversation around how that works is not straightforward and
I'm working my way through it. But when I've got
something to announce, you'll be the first to know.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I'm going to hold you to that. Paul, Thank you
very much, thank you for your time. That's Paul Goldsmith,
Justice Minister and Broadcasting ministers.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talk zi B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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