November 25, 2024 • 5 mins
Wellington City Council’s 'highest-ever' investment in water infrastructure will see less than 1km of pipes replaced this year, Wellington Water claims.
After a summer of leaks and taps running dry, the Council promised to increase spending on water infrastructure to address the damage.
Wellington City Councillor Ben McNulty says it's up to Wellington Water to determine where that money goes.
"The decision to do less than a kilometre sits very much operationally in their hands."
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here the d Despite Wellington City Council and its mayor
constantly insisting that they're putting the highest ever amount of
money into fixing water pipes, it turns out they're not
paying that much, are they. They're only paying enough to
fix about one k of pipes a year, and that's
despite the fact that they've got two hundred and thirty
seven k's of pipes in a very poor condition and
one hundreds more k's of pipes that need fixing less urgently. Now.
(00:23):
Ben McNaulty is a Wellington City councilor.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi Ben, Hi, Heather, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. Listen, why are you guys
putting in so little money?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So? Wellington Water are our trusted advisor in terms of
where the money goes. So I just want to stipulate
that we don't choose on are we going to replace
x kilometers pipes fixed x amounts at lex We put
the money in and then they decide from that pool
where that money should go. So in the first instance,
the decision to do less than a kilometer sits very
much operationally in their hand. At the same time, yes,
(00:51):
there is a point that we're not putting enough funding
in the earlier years of our long term plan, it
ramps up, it gets considerable, especially for the other years.
But right now, the big culprit that's actually gobbling up
all that spare cash is the town Hall. That project
is gobbling up hundreds of millions of dollars of our
borrowing capacity over the next three years. And that's borrowing
capacity that should be going to pipes, and it's going
(01:13):
to an old building instead.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Didn't Wellington didn't Wellington Water tell you, guys, you need
to fund them sufficiently to replace forty k's of pipes
every year.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, they've told us that, and why are you borrowed?
We've borrowed to the maximum that we can. But councilors
don't make decisions in the vacuum here, and they've made
decisions on other spending priorities sort have gobbled up the
debt headroom and ability to put money into there. And again,
the town Hall is just such the prime culprit that's
sitting in those first few years at the LTP that
even though that town Hall is not there, we wouldn't
(01:43):
actually have the sufficient capital to address it. And it
goes to the point of why is government doing water reform,
while was the past government doing water reform because the
way that council funds its water is fundamentally broken.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
How much money are you putting into replacing the pipes
this year?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I believe it's about eighty million dollars of capital investment.
But that is again, we give Wellington Water about eighty
million dollars of capital and then they make the decisions
of where they're going to diverge that funding through there
so's going to fundamental the going repairs.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know, I know the town hall is hugely expensive,
and that is a fair point to make, But why
don't you guys cancel your absolute weird obsession with ripping
up roads and replacing them with cycle ways and all
and the Golden Mile and stuff and put that money
into the pipes instead.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, those are the discussions that are happening in the
LTP Amendment. Right, the officers had stipulated that the Golden
Mile should be looked at in terms of the cost saving,
but nonetheless at the financial situation. I don't understanding you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I just don't understand you, guys, Like you're sitting there,
it was if it was your house, right and your
pipes were crappy and busting the whole time. You would
deal with your pipes before you dealt with like putting
yourself a nice, flesh new driveway. So why did you
guys not in the first instance make that decision that's
so bizarre to me.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, in the first instance, the decisions about cuts now
around having financial resilience. So what we've been told by
k MG, by the auditors of the world as actually,
we need to have a billion dollars of headrooms should
an earthquake hit and all the spending cuts that we're
planning for our LTP minute.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
But you're not talking about the that's not the same
thing as me. What I'm saying to you is it's
an opportunity cost here. Why didn't you when you first
sat down and say we're not going to do the
Golden Mile because we're going to use that money for pipes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, that money wouldn't have gone into the Golden Miles.
What I'm saying, so our pressing issued, the advice that's
sitting in front of us is between water and having
enough money for our resilience. Actually, resilience is where the
money has to go through. That's the professional opinion.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Makes it works like that means you had two things
that should have taken priority over the Golden Mile, and
you picked the Golden Mile.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Anyway, again, though, let's take the Golden Mile just from
the City Council's perspective, that is fifty percent government funded.
So you have to look at and there's thirty million
dollars of pipe replacements within that project that are half
being government funded. So I just want to make the
point there that actually the Golden Mile has quite a
substantive water infrastructure component and Wellington ratepayers are getting half
of that component from the government. If that deal actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I know that. I don't buy it. Hey, listen, tell
me something. You guys have got this big council meeting
tomorrow where you need to decide what you're going to
cut to be able to afford everything. Any idea, what's
going is the Golden Mile going?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think everything's going to be a matter of discussion
up until the votes. At the moment, there are texts, messages, emails,
meetings flying left, right and center, people trying to put
things in, people trying to take things out, and honestly, Heather,
I just don't know quite where the others are.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
A lot of lobbying at the moment is there.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's going to be a lot of phone calls and
things into the evening. I'm sitting in this weird camp
where you know, there's cuts coming from our officials, there's
cuts coming from the mayor's office, and there's cuts coming
from the right wing counselors, and I'm sort of just
drifting in between. I will vote for things that I
think are a poor waste of our poor usage of
our city's money, and I'll vote put in the things
that I think are wise to keep putting through. That's
(04:52):
about all I can do. But yeah, we have lots
of camps saying cut lots of differently.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Have you had have you had any good advice from
the observer yet?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I think the observer is actually yeah, Look he's sitting
back right now, and he's saying, it's not my turn
to tell you how to do these things. I want
to spend the first month or two really understanding how
your council works, what the dynamics are, and then you know,
as you get further into the LTP process, I will
involve myself a bit more. But I think that's why
for him to actually he's been put in because there
(05:21):
is an issue, there's a problem. I totally accept for
meirationalepha Saman sometervention. So you don't just come in and
start calling the shots. You come and you see how
things are working, what's causing the problems, and then you
actually go through. So no specific advice from your deserver,
but I think the approach he's taking is prudent so
that you don't just call the shots before you don't
know what's that short of problem.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, Ben, thank you for talking us so I really
appreciate it. Ben McNaughty, who is the Wellington City councilor.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
For more from Hither Duplassy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Here the d Despite Wellington City Council and its mayor
constantly insisting that they're putting the highest ever amount of
money into fixing water pipes, it turns out they're not
paying that much, are they. They're only paying enough to
fix about one k of pipes a year, and that's
despite the fact that they've got two hundred and thirty
seven k's of pipes in a very poor condition and
one hundreds more k's of pipes that need fixing less urgently. Now.
(00:23):
Ben McNaulty is a Wellington City councilor.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi Ben, Hi, Heather, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. Listen, why are you guys
putting in so little money?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So? Wellington Water are our trusted advisor in terms of
where the money goes. So I just want to stipulate
that we don't choose on are we going to replace
x kilometers pipes fixed x amounts at lex We put
the money in and then they decide from that pool
where that money should go. So in the first instance,
the decision to do less than a kilometer sits very
much operationally in their hand. At the same time, yes,
(00:51):
there is a point that we're not putting enough funding
in the earlier years of our long term plan, it
ramps up, it gets considerable, especially for the other years.
But right now, the big culprit that's actually gobbling up
all that spare cash is the town Hall. That project
is gobbling up hundreds of millions of dollars of our
borrowing capacity over the next three years. And that's borrowing
capacity that should be going to pipes, and it's going
(01:13):
to an old building instead.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Didn't Wellington didn't Wellington Water tell you, guys, you need
to fund them sufficiently to replace forty k's of pipes
every year.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yes, they've told us that, and why are you borrowed?
We've borrowed to the maximum that we can. But councilors
don't make decisions in the vacuum here, and they've made
decisions on other spending priorities sort have gobbled up the
debt headroom and ability to put money into there. And again,
the town Hall is just such the prime culprit that's
sitting in those first few years at the LTP that
even though that town Hall is not there, we wouldn't
(01:43):
actually have the sufficient capital to address it. And it
goes to the point of why is government doing water reform,
while was the past government doing water reform because the
way that council funds its water is fundamentally broken.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
How much money are you putting into replacing the pipes
this year?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I believe it's about eighty million dollars of capital investment.
But that is again, we give Wellington Water about eighty
million dollars of capital and then they make the decisions
of where they're going to diverge that funding through there
so's going to fundamental the going repairs.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know, I know the town hall is hugely expensive,
and that is a fair point to make, But why
don't you guys cancel your absolute weird obsession with ripping
up roads and replacing them with cycle ways and all
and the Golden Mile and stuff and put that money
into the pipes instead.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, those are the discussions that are happening in the
LTP Amendment. Right, the officers had stipulated that the Golden
Mile should be looked at in terms of the cost saving,
but nonetheless at the financial situation. I don't understanding you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I just don't understand you, guys, Like you're sitting there,
it was if it was your house, right and your
pipes were crappy and busting the whole time. You would
deal with your pipes before you dealt with like putting
yourself a nice, flesh new driveway. So why did you
guys not in the first instance make that decision that's
so bizarre to me.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, in the first instance, the decisions about cuts now
around having financial resilience. So what we've been told by
k MG, by the auditors of the world as actually,
we need to have a billion dollars of headrooms should
an earthquake hit and all the spending cuts that we're
planning for our LTP minute.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
But you're not talking about the that's not the same
thing as me. What I'm saying to you is it's
an opportunity cost here. Why didn't you when you first
sat down and say we're not going to do the
Golden Mile because we're going to use that money for pipes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, that money wouldn't have gone into the Golden Miles.
What I'm saying, so our pressing issued, the advice that's
sitting in front of us is between water and having
enough money for our resilience. Actually, resilience is where the
money has to go through. That's the professional opinion.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Makes it works like that means you had two things
that should have taken priority over the Golden Mile, and
you picked the Golden Mile.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Anyway, again, though, let's take the Golden Mile just from
the City Council's perspective, that is fifty percent government funded.
So you have to look at and there's thirty million
dollars of pipe replacements within that project that are half
being government funded. So I just want to make the
point there that actually the Golden Mile has quite a
substantive water infrastructure component and Wellington ratepayers are getting half
of that component from the government. If that deal actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I know that. I don't buy it. Hey, listen, tell
me something. You guys have got this big council meeting
tomorrow where you need to decide what you're going to
cut to be able to afford everything. Any idea, what's
going is the Golden Mile going?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think everything's going to be a matter of discussion
up until the votes. At the moment, there are texts, messages, emails,
meetings flying left, right and center, people trying to put
things in, people trying to take things out, and honestly, Heather,
I just don't know quite where the others are.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
A lot of lobbying at the moment is there.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's going to be a lot of phone calls and
things into the evening. I'm sitting in this weird camp
where you know, there's cuts coming from our officials, there's
cuts coming from the mayor's office, and there's cuts coming
from the right wing counselors, and I'm sort of just
drifting in between. I will vote for things that I
think are a poor waste of our poor usage of
our city's money, and I'll vote put in the things
that I think are wise to keep putting through. That's
(04:52):
about all I can do. But yeah, we have lots
of camps saying cut lots of differently.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Have you had have you had any good advice from
the observer yet?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I think the observer is actually yeah, Look he's sitting
back right now, and he's saying, it's not my turn
to tell you how to do these things. I want
to spend the first month or two really understanding how
your council works, what the dynamics are, and then you know,
as you get further into the LTP process, I will
involve myself a bit more. But I think that's why
for him to actually he's been put in because there
(05:21):
is an issue, there's a problem. I totally accept for
meirationalepha Saman sometervention. So you don't just come in and
start calling the shots. You come and you see how
things are working, what's causing the problems, and then you
actually go through. So no specific advice from your deserver,
but I think the approach he's taking is prudent so
that you don't just call the shots before you don't
know what's that short of problem.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, Ben, thank you for talking us so I really
appreciate it. Ben McNaughty, who is the Wellington City councilor.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
For more from Hither Duplassy Alan Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.