November 28, 2024 • 5 mins
The former Covid Response Minister says our vaccine mandates during the pandemic went too far.
Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden has received the first phase of the report from the Royal Commission Inquiry, with its 39 recommendations.
It found some vaccine requirements were too broadly applied and continued too long.
Labour leader Chris Hipkins says he hasn't drawn any conclusions on the length, as he hasn't read fully read through the report yet.
"Do I think the vaccine mandates went a bit too wide? Yes, I actually accept that finding."
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The first part of the Royal Commission inquiry into the
(00:02):
COVID response has been released and it is critical the
Auckland lockdown went on too long. Just into Ardurn, referring
to themselves as the single source of truth was described
as unhelpful by some who submitted, and the vaccine mandates
were used too broadly and for too long. Now Chris
Hopkins is currently the Labor Leader, was, of course the
Health Ministry at the time. Chippy, Hello, you had a
(00:23):
chance to read some of this.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I've only had a chance to read this, you know,
the summary report, which is about one hundred and twenty
pages long. I will sort of make my way through
the full report in due course.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Do you think so, let me just bring you up
to speed with I think what is the most critical
part in this report, and this is around the vaccine mandates.
They say the vaccine mandates went too far and the
vaccine mandates were held too long. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I mean one of the challenges with a report like this,
of course, is that they're drawing on information with the
benefit of hindsight. So the issue around whether the vaccine
mandates went on too long draws on information that wasn't
available to us when we made decisions.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Not true, it's information that you did have, and the
quoting cabinet papers that you had.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, I mean, but they're also making conclusions, like, for example,
the information about whether the transmissibility of omicron versus delta.
Then information wasn't clear always at the time that we're
making those decisions. But actually, an answer to your questions,
to be really specific, do I think the vaccine mandates
went a bit too wide?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I actually accept that finding, and so yes, and too long?
That one too long? Too long. I haven't had a
chance to read that, Chippy, so I do want to
do that before I thought.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is you had a cabinet briefing on the twenty
second of January twenty two, and it said vaccines show
reduced effectiveness against the omicron variant compared to delta. So
you knew in January twenty two that it wasn't going
to work as well and that the mandates weren't going
to work as well, and yet you guys kept the
mandates in place until September twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, but I mean that's only one paragraph or one
sentence out of what was quite a long and detailed
briefing about it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But you would have read it because it had this
had material effect on Kiwi's lives and jobs, right, So
you would have been when you were weighing up as
the Health Minister whether to recommend the mandates, this would
have been fundamental to your decision.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Of course. And actually, you know, we're weighing up a
whole lot of factors at the time. None of these
decisions were easy and none of them were straightforward. Every
one of them involved, you know, quite a difficult set
of trade offs.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And you know what, actually thank you for raising that
because I've been trying to figure out what the trade
off was. Right here. You guys are sitting in cabinet.
You know the mandates are not going to work now
that you've got omicron, and yet you keep them in place.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Why Well, ultimately, we were trying to make sure that
as as you know, COVID nineteen spread in the community,
that is, fewer people got critically ill and as fewer
people died as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But once the trade offf chippy because it says they
say to you, it's not going to work as well,
So what why did you keep it?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well? Right the way through the pandemic response. There were
just call trade offs. I mean, if you had to
take in the view that you know that there was
no price worth paying and to be able to save
someone's life, we would have made different decisions all the
way along. Much of the information that's available now to
look at things in hindsight wasn't. There wasn't information that
(03:18):
was as readily available.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's not true. I just quoted you information you had
at the time. Tippy listened. You know what I actually
think you as the health minister. Oh a lot of
people in apology for them losing their jobs, don't you.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, yeah, like I said, not all of the information
was available at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You can't use that excuse. So literally just read you
something that was a cabinet briefing that you would have read.
So do you not think that you owe people an apology?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I want to read the report first before I'm
make any decisions about that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So you're going to read before I've read the report.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So okay, and I'm being as accessible to you as positive.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Come on, I mean, here's the thing. I've never read
this cabinet briefing before I've read it in this report,
and it is clear to me you have read this
Habet briefing before you made the decision. This is not
news to you. This is stuff you already know, so
you should already know whether you owe people in apology
or not.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You're quoting one sentence out of a report that was
written three years ago, So I want to read the
full report before I make a conclusion on this.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
If you read the report and you come to the
same conclusion as I do, are you going to apologize
to all of those Kiwis who lost their jobs because
of a decision that I made?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well? As I said, I mean, I think that I
already accept one of the findings of the report, which
was that the mandates went too far. So I've already
said that, but I want to read the full report
before going any further than down there.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Now, listen, where's you mate? You Cinda? Is she going
to front up about the stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think? I haven't spoken jo it so I don't know.
You don't have to ask you that question yourself, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We will, Chippy, Thank you, appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
All right, cheers.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Thanks, Chippy really appreciated that. As Chris Hopkins, labor leader.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Listen live to News Talk Said from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
The first part of the Royal Commission inquiry into the
(00:02):
COVID response has been released and it is critical the
Auckland lockdown went on too long. Just into Ardurn, referring
to themselves as the single source of truth was described
as unhelpful by some who submitted, and the vaccine mandates
were used too broadly and for too long. Now Chris
Hopkins is currently the Labor Leader, was, of course the
Health Ministry at the time. Chippy, Hello, you had a
(00:23):
chance to read some of this.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I've only had a chance to read this, you know,
the summary report, which is about one hundred and twenty
pages long. I will sort of make my way through
the full report in due course.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Do you think so, let me just bring you up
to speed with I think what is the most critical
part in this report, and this is around the vaccine mandates.
They say the vaccine mandates went too far and the
vaccine mandates were held too long. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I mean one of the challenges with a report like this,
of course, is that they're drawing on information with the
benefit of hindsight. So the issue around whether the vaccine
mandates went on too long draws on information that wasn't
available to us when we made decisions.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Not true, it's information that you did have, and the
quoting cabinet papers that you had.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, I mean, but they're also making conclusions, like, for example,
the information about whether the transmissibility of omicron versus delta.
Then information wasn't clear always at the time that we're
making those decisions. But actually, an answer to your questions,
to be really specific, do I think the vaccine mandates
went a bit too wide?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I actually accept that finding, and so yes, and too long?
That one too long? Too long. I haven't had a
chance to read that, Chippy, so I do want to
do that before I thought.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This is you had a cabinet briefing on the twenty
second of January twenty two, and it said vaccines show
reduced effectiveness against the omicron variant compared to delta. So
you knew in January twenty two that it wasn't going
to work as well and that the mandates weren't going
to work as well, and yet you guys kept the
mandates in place until September twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, but I mean that's only one paragraph or one
sentence out of what was quite a long and detailed
briefing about it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But you would have read it because it had this
had material effect on Kiwi's lives and jobs, right, So
you would have been when you were weighing up as
the Health Minister whether to recommend the mandates, this would
have been fundamental to your decision.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Of course. And actually, you know, we're weighing up a
whole lot of factors at the time. None of these
decisions were easy and none of them were straightforward. Every
one of them involved, you know, quite a difficult set
of trade offs.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And you know what, actually thank you for raising that
because I've been trying to figure out what the trade
off was. Right here. You guys are sitting in cabinet.
You know the mandates are not going to work now
that you've got omicron, and yet you keep them in place.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Why Well, ultimately, we were trying to make sure that
as as you know, COVID nineteen spread in the community,
that is, fewer people got critically ill and as fewer
people died as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
But once the trade offf chippy because it says they
say to you, it's not going to work as well,
So what why did you keep it?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well? Right the way through the pandemic response. There were
just call trade offs. I mean, if you had to
take in the view that you know that there was
no price worth paying and to be able to save
someone's life, we would have made different decisions all the
way along. Much of the information that's available now to
look at things in hindsight wasn't. There wasn't information that
(03:18):
was as readily available.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's not true. I just quoted you information you had
at the time. Tippy listened. You know what I actually
think you as the health minister. Oh a lot of
people in apology for them losing their jobs, don't you.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, yeah, like I said, not all of the information
was available at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You can't use that excuse. So literally just read you
something that was a cabinet briefing that you would have read.
So do you not think that you owe people an apology?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I want to read the report first before I'm
make any decisions about that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
So you're going to read before I've read the report.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So okay, and I'm being as accessible to you as positive.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Come on, I mean, here's the thing. I've never read
this cabinet briefing before I've read it in this report,
and it is clear to me you have read this
Habet briefing before you made the decision. This is not
news to you. This is stuff you already know, so
you should already know whether you owe people in apology
or not.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
You're quoting one sentence out of a report that was
written three years ago, So I want to read the
full report before I make a conclusion on this.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
If you read the report and you come to the
same conclusion as I do, are you going to apologize
to all of those Kiwis who lost their jobs because
of a decision that I made?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Well? As I said, I mean, I think that I
already accept one of the findings of the report, which
was that the mandates went too far. So I've already
said that, but I want to read the full report
before going any further than down there.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Now, listen, where's you mate? You Cinda? Is she going
to front up about the stuff?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I think? I haven't spoken jo it so I don't know.
You don't have to ask you that question yourself, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We will, Chippy, Thank you, appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
All right, cheers.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Thanks, Chippy really appreciated that. As Chris Hopkins, labor leader.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Listen live to News Talk Said from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.