December 2, 2024 • 5 mins
Labour's foreign affairs spokesperson has called AUKUS a 'China containment strategy' - which Labour wants no part of.
At the party conference, leader Chris Hipkins announced no future Labour Government would be involved in the tri-lateral security deal.
David Parker says New Zealand should plot a path between the superpowers.
He's confirmed Labour would withdraw from the deal if the current Government signs up.
"In terms of the practicality of that - very little will have happened by then. Even the Pillar One submarines that are nuclear powered that Australia's purchasing - they don't arrive by the 2030s."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jack team and the current government is in talks regarding
joining Pillar two of ORCUS, but Labor leader Chris Hopkins
says no government he leads will join it. You remember
that ORCUS is a military agreement between Australia, the UK
and the US. Pillar two is an agreement to share
cutting edge military technologies between the member states. So Labor's
announcement over the week has left former Labor Defense Minister
(00:24):
Andrew a little a little bit confused.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Those three partners are partners who get most of our
defense technology from back anyway, we'll always get it from them,
so not signing up to it, we still have to
have a relationship with them.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
What we're going to David Parker is the Labour Party's
Foreign affairs spokesperson and is with us this evening, good evening,
good evening game. Why don't you want us to join
UCUST Pillar two.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Because it's become increasingly clear that it is a China
containment strategy from the point of view of the United States,
and we don't think we should tie ourselves to that.
We should try and plot a middle course between the
superpowers rather than holly take the side of one that
doesn't mean to say we're unaligned. We do buy our
kit from Australia from the US, and it's interoperable with
(01:12):
systems in Australia, but we shouldn't be part of ORCUS.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Does China need to be contained.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, we don't perceive that there's any immediate threat of
them invading us. There are things that China does that
we disagree with, both in our own region, and of
course they've got a completely different style of government in
a communist one party state. We're a liberal democracy, but
there are lots of countries in the world that we
(01:40):
don't agree with. We nonetheless try and chart a peaceful
course in support of the international rules based order that
keeps us all safe.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
What would we actually get out of Pillar two if
we do join it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, that's never been completely clear. But one of the
positives are not completely clear, because we already buy our
kit our of the US, and it's already been made
clear by the current US president that even if we
weren't in August, they continue to sell us stuff. What
we would get out of it in the negative is
that we'd be clearly positioning ourselves against China. And although
(02:14):
trade issues and economic issues are not the be all
and end all. They are relevant and of course Chieda
doesn't imposed tariffs on us. The US is talking about
doing exactly that thing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
How can you rule it out if it's not completely
clear what we're actually getting.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, the current government has already changed the wording around AUGUS.
They've said that they now see themselves as a force
multiplier for the United States. You will call it. In
yester year, the National Party disagreed with us on our
stants in Iraq, said we should just follow Australia in
the US into that illegal war in Iraq, which has
made things worse in the region, not better. We think
(02:51):
it's better for us to chart our traditional independent course
and take our decisions case by case on what is
in the national interest in Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, but wouldn't taking it as in a case by
case mode mean you actually waited to see what we
were getting out of this explicitly before making that call.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, I think we've had a number of public meetings
that we've hosted in New Zealand from Australian's critical of ucas,
from former New Zealand prime ministers, from Pacific leaders expressing
their concern about AUCUS. You just can't sit and wait
forever until the National Party dumped this upon us without notice.
They certainly didn't campaign upon it at the last election.
(03:28):
It would be a major chain in New Zealand's foreign
policy and we don't think it should happen.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So if the National Party or if the current government
signs up to UCAS before the next election, will you
pull out of the deal?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yes, we've said we would, but in terms of the
practicality of that, very little will have happened by it.
Then in the Pillar one submarines that are nuclear power
that Australia is purchasing, and that's controversial in Australia, they
don't arrive until the twenty thirties, so you know next
elections what twenty twenty seven, sorry, twenty twenty six, so
(04:02):
you know it's by then. I don't think there will
be anything substantial that will have happened under August Pillow
Two's right, So.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You definitely have put you will definitely withdraw New Zealand
from that agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
That's right. Chris Hopkins has made that clear. We not
only won't join, we don't support New Zealand being in it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, Yeah, while we got you is your wealth text
do you think dead? Why did it get voted down
at the weekend?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, the Labor Party voted to continue work on two
streams of work. One was around a capital gains tax
and one was a wealth tax. So neither have been
fully committed to, but neither a did.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But what did they also vote when it came to
progressing the wealth tax over the weekend? They voted it down?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Right? They No, They voted on them exactly the same
manner as there was a vote on the capital gains tax.
There were two identical agreements put out. Both were voted
down in favor of the Policy Council continued work for
and respected both options.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Do you expect the Policy Council to back the CDT
ahead of a wealth tax?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, look, I'm not going to speculate that today. I'm
just making clear the process from here.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Would you support a stamp duty and principle, what are
the downsides and upsides to a stamp duty?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The position of the readon that that was passed at
the party was to look at the two options that
we've already spoken of and take other things off their GUNA.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Thanks good Tom, we appreciate it. That is Daily Parker
thanks with us this evening. For more from Hither Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Jack team and the current government is in talks regarding
joining Pillar two of ORCUS, but Labor leader Chris Hopkins
says no government he leads will join it. You remember
that ORCUS is a military agreement between Australia, the UK
and the US. Pillar two is an agreement to share
cutting edge military technologies between the member states. So Labor's
announcement over the week has left former Labor Defense Minister
(00:24):
Andrew a little a little bit confused.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Those three partners are partners who get most of our
defense technology from back anyway, we'll always get it from them,
so not signing up to it, we still have to
have a relationship with them.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
What we're going to David Parker is the Labour Party's
Foreign affairs spokesperson and is with us this evening, good evening,
good evening game. Why don't you want us to join
UCUST Pillar two.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Because it's become increasingly clear that it is a China
containment strategy from the point of view of the United States,
and we don't think we should tie ourselves to that.
We should try and plot a middle course between the
superpowers rather than holly take the side of one that
doesn't mean to say we're unaligned. We do buy our
kit from Australia from the US, and it's interoperable with
(01:12):
systems in Australia, but we shouldn't be part of ORCUS.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Does China need to be contained.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well, we don't perceive that there's any immediate threat of
them invading us. There are things that China does that
we disagree with, both in our own region, and of
course they've got a completely different style of government in
a communist one party state. We're a liberal democracy, but
there are lots of countries in the world that we
(01:40):
don't agree with. We nonetheless try and chart a peaceful
course in support of the international rules based order that
keeps us all safe.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
What would we actually get out of Pillar two if
we do join it.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, that's never been completely clear. But one of the
positives are not completely clear, because we already buy our
kit our of the US, and it's already been made
clear by the current US president that even if we
weren't in August, they continue to sell us stuff. What
we would get out of it in the negative is
that we'd be clearly positioning ourselves against China. And although
(02:14):
trade issues and economic issues are not the be all
and end all. They are relevant and of course Chieda
doesn't imposed tariffs on us. The US is talking about
doing exactly that thing.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
How can you rule it out if it's not completely
clear what we're actually getting.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, the current government has already changed the wording around AUGUS.
They've said that they now see themselves as a force
multiplier for the United States. You will call it. In
yester year, the National Party disagreed with us on our
stants in Iraq, said we should just follow Australia in
the US into that illegal war in Iraq, which has
made things worse in the region, not better. We think
(02:51):
it's better for us to chart our traditional independent course
and take our decisions case by case on what is
in the national interest in Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, but wouldn't taking it as in a case by
case mode mean you actually waited to see what we
were getting out of this explicitly before making that call.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Well, I think we've had a number of public meetings
that we've hosted in New Zealand from Australian's critical of ucas,
from former New Zealand prime ministers, from Pacific leaders expressing
their concern about AUCUS. You just can't sit and wait
forever until the National Party dumped this upon us without notice.
They certainly didn't campaign upon it at the last election.
(03:28):
It would be a major chain in New Zealand's foreign
policy and we don't think it should happen.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So if the National Party or if the current government
signs up to UCAS before the next election, will you
pull out of the deal?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yes, we've said we would, but in terms of the
practicality of that, very little will have happened by it.
Then in the Pillar one submarines that are nuclear power
that Australia is purchasing, and that's controversial in Australia, they
don't arrive until the twenty thirties, so you know next
elections what twenty twenty seven, sorry, twenty twenty six, so
(04:02):
you know it's by then. I don't think there will
be anything substantial that will have happened under August Pillow
Two's right, So.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You definitely have put you will definitely withdraw New Zealand
from that agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
That's right. Chris Hopkins has made that clear. We not
only won't join, we don't support New Zealand being in it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, Yeah, while we got you is your wealth text
do you think dead? Why did it get voted down
at the weekend?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, the Labor Party voted to continue work on two
streams of work. One was around a capital gains tax
and one was a wealth tax. So neither have been
fully committed to, but neither a did.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But what did they also vote when it came to
progressing the wealth tax over the weekend? They voted it down?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Right? They No, They voted on them exactly the same
manner as there was a vote on the capital gains tax.
There were two identical agreements put out. Both were voted
down in favor of the Policy Council continued work for
and respected both options.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Do you expect the Policy Council to back the CDT
ahead of a wealth tax?
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, look, I'm not going to speculate that today. I'm
just making clear the process from here.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Would you support a stamp duty and principle, what are
the downsides and upsides to a stamp duty?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The position of the readon that that was passed at
the party was to look at the two options that
we've already spoken of and take other things off their GUNA.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Thanks good Tom, we appreciate it. That is Daily Parker
thanks with us this evening. For more from Hither Duplessy
Allen Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be from
four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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