December 4, 2024 • 6 mins
The Government has introduced new legislation set to limit the amount of full farm to forestry conversions.
The rule changes will stop Category 1 to 5 land being converted into forestry - and those with Category 6 land will only be allowed to convert 15,000 hectares.
Minister of Agriculture Todd McClay says National had promised voters these changes were coming - and took the full year to make sure they were implemented properly.
"We're putting a moratorium in place so there can be no full farm-to-forest conversion, but we are allowing farmers to convert up to 25 percent of their own land to go into the emissions trading scheme, should they wish."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So let's talk about converting farmland into forestry. The government
has brought in new rules to stop so much farmland
being converted into that forestry land. It's now going to
be more difficult to get exotic forest planted on the
most productive land, going to become difficult to get it
into the emissions trading scheme. So Tom McClay is balancing
two of his ministerial hats on his head at once
(00:21):
for this announcement, and the Minister of Agriculture and also
the Minister of Forestry jointing. Now, hello, Minister Andrew, good afternoon.
What are you actually changing? How have you done this?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, well this is something we campaigned on, it was
policy before the election when we're in opposition, and we've
just taken the year to make sure we can get
the detail right.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
So there's no unintended consequences.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
What we're saying is for our most productive food producing
land that has a classification sort of a one through five,
think of dairy and horticulture land, things like that, we're
putting a moratorium in place so there can be no
full farm to forest conversion, but we are allowing farmers
to convert up to twenty five percent of their own
(01:06):
land to go into the missions trading scheme should they wish,
because you know there is a role for that, particularly
in you know, areas that they think should have trees
rather than perhaps be farming on Luck six land, which
is some of the quite hilly sheep type land, where
we're putting in place a quota or a cap of
fifteen thousand hectares per year which can be converted outside
(01:29):
of that any other types of land, a land that's
not actively farmed, there will be no change to the rules.
And we're also looking at any land that has a
treaty obligation on its Maori multiple owned land would be
Aside from.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That, does this classification do these categories already exist or
are you going to have to do a survey of
New Zealand land to classify it all and say that's good,
that's really good, that's rubbish.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, it already exists and it is already used by council,
so it does exist. But one of the things we're
also saying is that we're a landowner, a farm thinks
that the classification that a council has may not be correct.
They can ask for a pretty reassessed at a farm level.
We're also being very clear that we're not taking away
(02:13):
the ability for people to do things where they've already
made a decision.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So any decision that somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Has to have invested where they have already or can
demonstrate an intention to be able to, you know, to
want to go and plant trees up to today, they're
able to continue to but you know, the decision will
take effect from today onwards once a law comes into place.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, it's their land, it's their choice, isn't it. There
is a freedom of doing what you want with your
own property.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
But what we are finding is that because of the
emission trading scheme and an expectation of that the carbon
price will go up over time, that investors are looking
to do things with land they wouldn't otherwise. But I
do agree with you. If a landowner wants to plant
trees on their farm and not going to the Mission's
trading scheme, anouncement today will have no effect upon that
(03:01):
they're able to do so.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So this moratorium on certain bands for ETS credits and
all that, how much how much would it decrease the
amount of forestation of productive land.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, there are estimates from beef and lamb and others
that over the last six to seven years about two
hundred and sixty thousand hectares of land forests farmland has
been converted into trees for the emissions trading scheme. A
lot of that is the luck six land are less
four one through five. Although I've just been with the
Prime ministers down in Southland where some dairy farms have
(03:34):
been purchased to be converted, and that's because the people
pershing that believes I'll make more money out of those
carbon credits and they will milking cows. And so what
we have seen over the last three or four years
or towards the end of the Labor government, a very fast,
deep escalation of purchasers of farmland to go into trees.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So this will slow that down. That doesn't stop it,
that slows it down.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
There is a very important role for pine trees and
other types of trees to play, not only in the
economy but also to meet our carbon reduction obligations. We
just want to get that balance right and some rule
so you know, the highly productive land that produces the
food and the export doesn't get taken away to the
grid has.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Been and we'll see it as well. But you know,
at the same time, do you honestly believe that the
planting of trees is actively decreasing climate change?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it's a quest as carbon is the point and
we have an obligation internationally to reduce.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
The question, do you believe it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Do you believe it works?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Well? Because well the answer is yes. The answer is yes,
I do.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Because if you get to a net zero situation where
the amount you're emitting, the carbon you're emitting is sequested elsewhere,
then actually you can stop warning. We'll have a bit
more to talk about that over the next few days
and some other areas where we have policy we're developing
where we want to part with Provo sixs to plant
trees on crown land that has very low conservation of
(05:01):
farming value.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But the answer is yes.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It is shown around the world that actually you can
applant trees to sup quest of carbon that mitigates where
you may be emitting carbon somewhere else in the economy.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Very good, and we need to remember that there's an
awful lot of unproductive land in New Zealand. There's only
a very small amount that is actually the Primo land
and so we do have upside on there. I know
you've also announced our new methane admissions targets. What are
they and how are we going to meet?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, no, we haven't announced the targets.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What we committed for the election was an independent scientific
review of a biogenic methane and methane from animals against
additional warming. We set up an independent panel of experts
from New Zealand and around the world to give government advice.
We've published that advice today. The Climate Change Commission also
is about to publish some advice as well.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
We're going to take some time to.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Consider both of these pieces of advice and during the
course of next year we'll come up with a target
for agriculture. Currently in legislation, agriculture has to reduce submissions
methane emissions by twenty four to forty seven percent by
twenty fifty. What the independent to review has said so
that there would be no additional warming and to meet
our international obligations, a reduction of twenty four percent by
(06:14):
twenty fifty would be required. But we're going to take
some time to consider that. Before the Climate Change Minister
has the legislative responsibility and Cabinet will make a decision
on exactly what the target for agriculture should be.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Well, a very comprehensive answer of a very complicated business
and I thank you so much, Tom McLay, Minister of
lots of stuff that I thank you very.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Much for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live
to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
So let's talk about converting farmland into forestry. The government
has brought in new rules to stop so much farmland
being converted into that forestry land. It's now going to
be more difficult to get exotic forest planted on the
most productive land, going to become difficult to get it
into the emissions trading scheme. So Tom McClay is balancing
two of his ministerial hats on his head at once
(00:21):
for this announcement, and the Minister of Agriculture and also
the Minister of Forestry jointing. Now, hello, Minister Andrew, good afternoon.
What are you actually changing? How have you done this?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, well this is something we campaigned on, it was
policy before the election when we're in opposition, and we've
just taken the year to make sure we can get
the detail right.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
So there's no unintended consequences.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
What we're saying is for our most productive food producing
land that has a classification sort of a one through five,
think of dairy and horticulture land, things like that, we're
putting a moratorium in place so there can be no
full farm to forest conversion, but we are allowing farmers
to convert up to twenty five percent of their own
(01:06):
land to go into the missions trading scheme should they wish,
because you know there is a role for that, particularly
in you know, areas that they think should have trees
rather than perhaps be farming on Luck six land, which
is some of the quite hilly sheep type land, where
we're putting in place a quota or a cap of
fifteen thousand hectares per year which can be converted outside
(01:29):
of that any other types of land, a land that's
not actively farmed, there will be no change to the rules.
And we're also looking at any land that has a
treaty obligation on its Maori multiple owned land would be
Aside from.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That, does this classification do these categories already exist or
are you going to have to do a survey of
New Zealand land to classify it all and say that's good,
that's really good, that's rubbish.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, it already exists and it is already used by council,
so it does exist. But one of the things we're
also saying is that we're a landowner, a farm thinks
that the classification that a council has may not be correct.
They can ask for a pretty reassessed at a farm level.
We're also being very clear that we're not taking away
(02:13):
the ability for people to do things where they've already
made a decision.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So any decision that somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Has to have invested where they have already or can
demonstrate an intention to be able to, you know, to
want to go and plant trees up to today, they're
able to continue to but you know, the decision will
take effect from today onwards once a law comes into place.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, it's their land, it's their choice, isn't it. There
is a freedom of doing what you want with your
own property.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
But what we are finding is that because of the
emission trading scheme and an expectation of that the carbon
price will go up over time, that investors are looking
to do things with land they wouldn't otherwise. But I
do agree with you. If a landowner wants to plant
trees on their farm and not going to the Mission's
trading scheme, anouncement today will have no effect upon that
(03:01):
they're able to do so.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So this moratorium on certain bands for ETS credits and
all that, how much how much would it decrease the
amount of forestation of productive land.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, there are estimates from beef and lamb and others
that over the last six to seven years about two
hundred and sixty thousand hectares of land forests farmland has
been converted into trees for the emissions trading scheme. A
lot of that is the luck six land are less
four one through five. Although I've just been with the
Prime ministers down in Southland where some dairy farms have
(03:34):
been purchased to be converted, and that's because the people
pershing that believes I'll make more money out of those
carbon credits and they will milking cows. And so what
we have seen over the last three or four years
or towards the end of the Labor government, a very fast,
deep escalation of purchasers of farmland to go into trees.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So this will slow that down. That doesn't stop it,
that slows it down.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
There is a very important role for pine trees and
other types of trees to play, not only in the
economy but also to meet our carbon reduction obligations. We
just want to get that balance right and some rule
so you know, the highly productive land that produces the
food and the export doesn't get taken away to the
grid has.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Been and we'll see it as well. But you know,
at the same time, do you honestly believe that the
planting of trees is actively decreasing climate change?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it's a quest as carbon is the point and
we have an obligation internationally to reduce.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
The question, do you believe it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Do you believe it works?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Well? Because well the answer is yes. The answer is yes,
I do.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Because if you get to a net zero situation where
the amount you're emitting, the carbon you're emitting is sequested elsewhere,
then actually you can stop warning. We'll have a bit
more to talk about that over the next few days
and some other areas where we have policy we're developing
where we want to part with Provo sixs to plant
trees on crown land that has very low conservation of
(05:01):
farming value.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But the answer is yes.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It is shown around the world that actually you can
applant trees to sup quest of carbon that mitigates where
you may be emitting carbon somewhere else in the economy.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Very good, and we need to remember that there's an
awful lot of unproductive land in New Zealand. There's only
a very small amount that is actually the Primo land
and so we do have upside on there. I know
you've also announced our new methane admissions targets. What are
they and how are we going to meet?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, no, we haven't announced the targets.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What we committed for the election was an independent scientific
review of a biogenic methane and methane from animals against
additional warming. We set up an independent panel of experts
from New Zealand and around the world to give government advice.
We've published that advice today. The Climate Change Commission also
is about to publish some advice as well.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
We're going to take some time to.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Consider both of these pieces of advice and during the
course of next year we'll come up with a target
for agriculture. Currently in legislation, agriculture has to reduce submissions
methane emissions by twenty four to forty seven percent by
twenty fifty. What the independent to review has said so
that there would be no additional warming and to meet
our international obligations, a reduction of twenty four percent by
(06:14):
twenty fifty would be required. But we're going to take
some time to consider that. Before the Climate Change Minister
has the legislative responsibility and Cabinet will make a decision
on exactly what the target for agriculture should be.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Well, a very comprehensive answer of a very complicated business
and I thank you so much, Tom McLay, Minister of
lots of stuff that I thank you very.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Much for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live
to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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