Penny Simmonds: Tertiary Education Minister on the Government's new measures impacting free speech at universities

A new bill looks to make universities less 'risk adverse' over freedom of speech. 

When introduced in March, it will amend the Education and Training Act and require universities adopt a 'freedom of speech' statement. 

They'll also have to report on its commitment yearly. 

Tertiary Education Minister Penny Simmonds says this will ensure they have policy and procedures around allowing and promoting possibly controversial issues. 

She explained there are also requirements about having to record and being transparent about complaints. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The government wants to change the law to strengthen freedom
of speech at universities. Proposed changes will mean that universities
won't be allowed to adopt positions on issues that don't
directly relate to their core functions, and they will each
be required to provide a freedom of speech statement and
report annually on their commitments the Tertorary Education and Skills

(00:20):
Misters Penny Simmons, Minister, Hello, Hello, how are you good?
Thank you? Do you think university at the moment are
universities restricting freedom of speech?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, look, they have an obligation for academic freedom, to
promote academic freedom for their staff and students, and freedom
of speech is really closely linked to that, and so
we think perhaps that they have been little risk adverse
over the last few years in terms of canceling some

(00:53):
things that might be considered controversial, and so this is
just making it really clear. It will be a change
of legislation, a change of Education and Training Act twenty
twenty to ensure that one they've got policy and procedures
around ensuring that they not only allow but promote freedom

(01:16):
of speech, but also then some requirements about having to
record complaints and be transparent about any complaints they might.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, what can you give me an example, What is
an example of an example where they have restricted freedom
of speech?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Look, I think there's been a few over the last
few years. Are probably the dom Brash one was an
obvious one from Massy. See.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
The thing is with these ones, Penny, that they always
say it's safety. It's a risk to people's safety if
we invite these people on. So are you asking them
to override their safety concerns in the name of freedom
of speech.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Look, I think how safety has perhaps been used a
little bit too liberally as a reason why not to
have people. And we're certainly not overriding the ability for
a university to be able to charge if there are
entities that are coming that may require additional security or

(02:22):
additional costs to the university, we would certainly expect that
they should be able to be charged.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Because the thing is that, I mean, let's face that
they're all largely a bunch of lefties, and they don't
like often don't like hearing controversial opinions, and so they
just say no and then they hide behind the safety thing.
Is that what you think's happening?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, Look, the trouble is it impacts on the academic
freedom for staff as well, because once you start canceling
that anything in terms of freedom of speech, diverse opinions,
and the ability to robustly debate, then you're putting real
pressure on academic free in terms of being able to

(03:02):
express an opinion that might be counter to what the
majority have. And so we've seen a number of surveys
done on staff and students in universities recently where they
say they don't feel safe to come up with a
alternative view opinion. Yes, and that's not good.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think most people will say, yeah, this looks reasonable.
One thing that I don't think is reasonable is you're
going to stop universities from adopting positions on issues that
don't directly relate to their call role or function. Is
that not in trying to encourage freedom of speech, you're
almost stifling theirs. Why do that?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well? No, again, quite the opposite, Ryan, because once a
university takes a stance on a matter that isn't it
isn't aligned with the call business. If you're an agricultural university,
then of course you should have opinions on different things
to do with agriculture or engineering or something. But if
you take an opinion, if a university takes a stance

(04:05):
rather than being neutral on things that are nothing to
do with them, then all of a sudden you prevent
staff with a differing opinion from men garba to say
anything like what.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
What are you talking about? Because universities teach all sorts
of things that they could have an opinion that theoretically on.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Anything, Well, you would hope that some of the worldwide
geopolitical things, it might be sensible for them to take
a stance. Well, they might well have students and wide

(04:43):
a far nol that come from either side of the debate,
and so I think that then, and they might have staff.
So all of a sudden you're down.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
But minister, if you're a university and you're you know,
you have an international relations class, you're saying the university
cannot have a position on the Gaza war.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
We're saying that individual staff might want to have a
position on it, but the university as a whole shouldn't,
because then that shuts down any of the individual staff.
So we not want to have a counter opinion.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Here's a shorter list. What can a university have an
opinion on them.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Look, we're not going to dictate that. If they can
justify that they should have an opinion on it, then
that's up to them. And again it's not.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Teaching international relations. And you're not allowed to have an
opinion on the war in Gaza, then I don't understand
what is your core business?

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Do you mean?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Basically, you can have an opinion on the running of
a university and that's about it.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
No. No, the staff that are teaching on that might
well have, as part of their academic freedom, an opinion
on some geopolitical situation, but the university as a whole
should not.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Penny, thank you very much for your time. That's Penny Simmons,
Tertory Education and Skills Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy
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