December 19, 2024 • 8 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union and former Labour Cabinet Minister Stuart Nash joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The Government is looking to strengthen free speech at universities. Should universities be allowed to decline hosting controversial speakers?
It's been a dire week for the economy - with today's GDP results revealing we're in the worst recession since 1991, excluding the Covid-19 lockdowns. Can we get back on track? Can we acknowledge some bad decisions were made by the Reserve Bank?
The holidays are getting closer - is it okay to drop by a friend's house unannounced?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The HARDLD tonight, Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union, Good evening, and
Ryan Stuart Nash, a former Labor Cabinet minister. Good evening
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ryan. How are you Jordan?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good to see j Were you following that?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Stuart?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Was that clear? I was, what exactly you can and
can't say? UNI?
Speaker 4 (00:15):
Now, well, I think you ave for lunch, mate, You
don't need dinner anymore because you're full. I mean, Penny
is example if a minister isn't quite over her portfolio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
But having said that, Mate, I tend to agree.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
You know, you've got to allow these academic experts the
right to say anything and everything, because universities are supposed
to be the critic and the conscience of our society.
And if you stifle academics from saying whatever they believe,
no matter how controversial, then I don't think that's that's
particularly sound.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, I agree, Jordan. You obviously will have that opinion.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I mean, this is a big win for the Free
Speech Union, and I mean Penny hardly did a very
good job of selling the policy to achieve the difference
is that the universe is like to say, you know, oh,
but academic freedom, we should be able to take whatever
position we like, and they ignore the fact no academic
freedom is a privilege for the academics. The issue is
(01:06):
is that the universities are taking a sort of groupthink approach.
For example, you know Massy taking you know we are
to treaty lead. If you do not agree with us
on what it means, then you know you're out. And
the thing is is the independent sort of surveys of
academics shows there's a problem and it's you know that
it's a surprising number of academics that say I'm not
(01:28):
free to speak my mind. That is deeply concerning and
that is what this is to address.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, the biggest concern from today is obviously the
state of the GDP, which is absolutely worse than any
economist was predicting last week. And we've downgraded quarter two
as well. I want your reactions to that next fourteen
to six on news talks. There'd be Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Stuart Nash, Form and Labor Cabinet Minister on the huddle tonight.
(01:56):
So we've had the GDP number, it's confirmed for quarter
three we were down a pis sent for quarter two.
They've revised from down point two to down one point one,
which means we're in the deepest recession outside of lockdowns
since nineteen ninety one. Stuart, we can blame you and
adri and all for that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I don't think you can do that at all.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Right, you know, the junior consensus amongst my business friends
is actually Nicola was out of her depth. You know,
you had a finance minister come and the first thing
she did is borrow fourteen billion dollars and give everyone
a tax cut. That every one of my networks, from
the far right a Jordan to the far left said
now is not the time. Now's the time to be
(02:36):
spending money on you know, cops, nurses, schools, hospitals, et cetera.
You can't borrow fourteen billion for tax cuts and expect
the economy to be in good shape. The other thing
I would say is, you know, if Nikola had come
out and said, look, this is my vision for New Zealand,
this is where I see us being in twenty thirty
and this is how we're going to get there. But
(02:57):
in order to get there, this is what I need
to do, then Keywis might go, Okay, can't you where
she's where she's going, where she's heading.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I buy into this vision.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
But do you know, but she was handed I mean,
the death alone as a proportion of GDP had doubled
since pre COVID. I mean, do you not accept that
he was given some pretty shoddy books.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I look, COVID changed the nature of the box of that.
There's no doubt.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And she's locked. She's locked that in. I mean, she's
locked in that post COVID spending. That's the real issue.
And you can it's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
She's she's spending more.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
And then there's it's actually borrowed fourteen billion for text cuts.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
As a percentage of the economy that the tax is
still going up. You know, we're not. This is not
a tax assue. Come on, I mean, it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Great but what she could have done, what she could
have done is what what you know, Michael Cullen did,
which most financementss do when they come from a new
government and say, oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
God, I've just opened the box. It's a lot worse
than I thought.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Level We're still committed to text cuts, but you know
what I mean, but we need to get the economy
in shape.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
We're still committed to text cuts, but we're delaying.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It's not about Texas. This is an overspending.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Jordan.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You're right in saying that she is continuing basically the
middle of the road. You know, I'm going to get
re elected as a centrist government next election because she's
not cutting as hard and fast as she could. But
she argue cut, I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Mean it is. It's the only cut is that she's
not growing it as fast. Oh yeah, that is not
a cut. And even on I know that labor love
the sort of you know this, you know it's a
tax cut for landlords, which was just returning interest deductibility,
just just absolutely bond as the way that the rest
of the whole world does it. You know, let's step
(04:43):
back as proportioning the economy, the tax take is still
going up. And Nikola Willis is relying this was on
the budget figures when we were going to get back
into surplus before twenty thirty. We're on you're getting back
in the surplus, of course, because they're you know, this
funny accounting trick removing the a SEC deficit was to
use the very tools that Grant Robinson used a LAH
(05:04):
fiscal drag taxes going up on working his nibooks, which.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Is exactly why people wanted the tax cunt, because the
bracket creep thing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Was had.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Scratched the surface, which is the point set.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Your argument is, actually you shouldn't have tax cunts. You
should have spent that money on public services. I mean,
what will we getting them from those public services? That's
the problem people have.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Well, we know at the moment, you know, Mark Mitchell
is trying hard to get five hundred more cops.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Completely agree with that.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Eric Stanford is spending more money on more teachers, absolutely
buy into that. Shane Retti is struggling at the moment
because the massive deficits in the health system that all
three of those needed overhauling, and all three minutesters are
working hard to do that, but they just haven't got
the money to implement the level of services.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That kiwis expected.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
But the thing I would say, back to what I
would say is I just do not understand what the
vision of this government is for our economy, and I
just think Nicholas out of a dead and that is
the general consensus of the vast majority of my business friends.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
We've got to finance it. Doesn't quite get it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My donors are coming to the same conclusion.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I think that the.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Talking around town, it's quite concerning and that what the
big fearful national should be as if they burn through
that credibility of we're far better on the economy.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, but what do you wanted to do? If she
went and cut like you, like you would have her cut, Jordan,
then she'd be out on our ear six and you've
got and the media would be having a field day
if you spind like Stuart wants to spend. I mean,
she's going in the middle of the road. This is
what a good politician should be doing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You're right, the media would have a field date. They're
having a field like labors in their approxy. I mean,
I can never tell what the student's post politics orhere
he's coming back because he's sticking to those labor talking points.
She's going to be had for for austerity anyway, she
should at least through the job so we get out
the other side, you can, we're going to move on.
Compare it to Ruth. You know, two years before the
(07:01):
election and ninety one the last time the economy was
this this bad. By the end of that term growth
and surplus and inflation under two percent when Jim Bolja
sacked there or on this part, there's no way Nickler
gets there.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And let's talk about inviting friends over it well, not
inviting friends over at Christmas time? So do you have this,
Stuart where people friends will come over to your house?
Actually I saw in the newspaper you've told everyone where
you live.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
A smart thing to do.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Come around.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Well, look right, I'll see you next week's jack.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, you're more than welcome. The fridge is full
of beer. We love I love people.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I call them to Amazon instead usually.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Come down to mind. The thing is is that you know,
it's always nice to have at least.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
A half an hour call so you can put on
a top and some decent shorts. But you know, Christmas
is about relaxing, having a couple of beers with mates
and just enjoying themselves so you can.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Make it all summer the year at home, so.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
What well, who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But but there's always a cop in the French view Jordan, Right,
there's two for you, right coming.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
The great thing where we are for summer is it's
boat excess only, so you can really you know, it's
the best. It's the best of both because you know
they're great. And I will come and pick you up.
And ah, yeah there's something wrong with the boat.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Not today, you hide away. I welcome him. Come. Anyone
who's listening, all right, thanks guys, have.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
A good one.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Mate.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Jordan Williams taxpayers and the Stuart Nash, former Labor Cabinet
minister whose door apparently always open. Seven to six.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
The HARDLD tonight, Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union, Good evening, and
Ryan Stuart Nash, a former Labor Cabinet minister. Good evening
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ryan. How are you Jordan?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good to see j Were you following that?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Stuart?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Was that clear? I was, what exactly you can and
can't say? UNI?
Speaker 4 (00:15):
Now, well, I think you ave for lunch, mate, You
don't need dinner anymore because you're full. I mean, Penny
is example if a minister isn't quite over her portfolio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
But having said that, Mate, I tend to agree.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
You know, you've got to allow these academic experts the
right to say anything and everything, because universities are supposed
to be the critic and the conscience of our society.
And if you stifle academics from saying whatever they believe,
no matter how controversial, then I don't think that's that's
particularly sound.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, I agree, Jordan. You obviously will have that opinion.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I mean, this is a big win for the Free
Speech Union, and I mean Penny hardly did a very
good job of selling the policy to achieve the difference
is that the universe is like to say, you know, oh,
but academic freedom, we should be able to take whatever
position we like, and they ignore the fact no academic
freedom is a privilege for the academics. The issue is
(01:06):
is that the universities are taking a sort of groupthink approach.
For example, you know Massy taking you know we are
to treaty lead. If you do not agree with us
on what it means, then you know you're out. And
the thing is is the independent sort of surveys of
academics shows there's a problem and it's you know that
it's a surprising number of academics that say I'm not
(01:28):
free to speak my mind. That is deeply concerning and
that is what this is to address.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah. Absolutely, the biggest concern from today is obviously the
state of the GDP, which is absolutely worse than any
economist was predicting last week. And we've downgraded quarter two
as well. I want your reactions to that next fourteen
to six on news talks. There'd be Jordan Williams, Taxpayers Union,
Stuart Nash, Form and Labor Cabinet Minister on the huddle tonight.
(01:56):
So we've had the GDP number, it's confirmed for quarter
three we were down a pis sent for quarter two.
They've revised from down point two to down one point one,
which means we're in the deepest recession outside of lockdowns
since nineteen ninety one. Stuart, we can blame you and
adri and all for that.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I don't think you can do that at all.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Right, you know, the junior consensus amongst my business friends
is actually Nicola was out of her depth. You know,
you had a finance minister come and the first thing
she did is borrow fourteen billion dollars and give everyone
a tax cut. That every one of my networks, from
the far right a Jordan to the far left said
now is not the time. Now's the time to be
(02:36):
spending money on you know, cops, nurses, schools, hospitals, et cetera.
You can't borrow fourteen billion for tax cuts and expect
the economy to be in good shape. The other thing
I would say is, you know, if Nikola had come
out and said, look, this is my vision for New Zealand,
this is where I see us being in twenty thirty
and this is how we're going to get there. But
(02:57):
in order to get there, this is what I need
to do, then Keywis might go, Okay, can't you where
she's where she's going, where she's heading.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And I buy into this vision.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
But do you know, but she was handed I mean,
the death alone as a proportion of GDP had doubled
since pre COVID. I mean, do you not accept that
he was given some pretty shoddy books.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I look, COVID changed the nature of the box of that.
There's no doubt.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And she's locked. She's locked that in. I mean, she's
locked in that post COVID spending. That's the real issue.
And you can it's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
She's she's spending more.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
And then there's it's actually borrowed fourteen billion for text cuts.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
As a percentage of the economy that the tax is
still going up. You know, we're not. This is not
a tax assue. Come on, I mean, it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Great but what she could have done, what she could
have done is what what you know, Michael Cullen did,
which most financementss do when they come from a new
government and say, oh my.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
God, I've just opened the box. It's a lot worse
than I thought.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Level We're still committed to text cuts, but you know
what I mean, but we need to get the economy
in shape.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
We're still committed to text cuts, but we're delaying.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
It's not about Texas. This is an overspending.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Jordan.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You're right in saying that she is continuing basically the
middle of the road. You know, I'm going to get
re elected as a centrist government next election because she's
not cutting as hard and fast as she could. But
she argue cut, I.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Mean it is. It's the only cut is that she's
not growing it as fast. Oh yeah, that is not
a cut. And even on I know that labor love
the sort of you know this, you know it's a
tax cut for landlords, which was just returning interest deductibility,
just just absolutely bond as the way that the rest
of the whole world does it. You know, let's step
(04:43):
back as proportioning the economy, the tax take is still
going up. And Nikola Willis is relying this was on
the budget figures when we were going to get back
into surplus before twenty thirty. We're on you're getting back
in the surplus, of course, because they're you know, this
funny accounting trick removing the a SEC deficit was to
use the very tools that Grant Robinson used a LAH
(05:04):
fiscal drag taxes going up on working his nibooks, which.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Is exactly why people wanted the tax cunt, because the
bracket creep thing.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Was had.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Scratched the surface, which is the point set.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Your argument is, actually you shouldn't have tax cunts. You
should have spent that money on public services. I mean,
what will we getting them from those public services? That's
the problem people have.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Well, we know at the moment, you know, Mark Mitchell
is trying hard to get five hundred more cops.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Completely agree with that.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Eric Stanford is spending more money on more teachers, absolutely
buy into that. Shane Retti is struggling at the moment
because the massive deficits in the health system that all
three of those needed overhauling, and all three minutesters are
working hard to do that, but they just haven't got
the money to implement the level of services.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That kiwis expected.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
But the thing I would say, back to what I
would say is I just do not understand what the
vision of this government is for our economy, and I
just think Nicholas out of a dead and that is
the general consensus of the vast majority of my business friends.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
We've got to finance it. Doesn't quite get it.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My donors are coming to the same conclusion.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I think that the.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Talking around town, it's quite concerning and that what the
big fearful national should be as if they burn through
that credibility of we're far better on the economy.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah, but what do you wanted to do? If she
went and cut like you, like you would have her cut, Jordan,
then she'd be out on our ear six and you've
got and the media would be having a field day
if you spind like Stuart wants to spend. I mean,
she's going in the middle of the road. This is
what a good politician should be doing.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You're right, the media would have a field date. They're
having a field like labors in their approxy. I mean,
I can never tell what the student's post politics orhere
he's coming back because he's sticking to those labor talking points.
She's going to be had for for austerity anyway, she
should at least through the job so we get out
the other side, you can, we're going to move on.
Compare it to Ruth. You know, two years before the
(07:01):
election and ninety one the last time the economy was
this this bad. By the end of that term growth
and surplus and inflation under two percent when Jim Bolja
sacked there or on this part, there's no way Nickler
gets there.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And let's talk about inviting friends over it well, not
inviting friends over at Christmas time? So do you have this,
Stuart where people friends will come over to your house?
Actually I saw in the newspaper you've told everyone where
you live.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
A smart thing to do.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Come around.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Well, look right, I'll see you next week's jack.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, you're more than welcome. The fridge is full
of beer. We love I love people.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I call them to Amazon instead usually.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Come down to mind. The thing is is that you know,
it's always nice to have at least.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
A half an hour call so you can put on
a top and some decent shorts. But you know, Christmas
is about relaxing, having a couple of beers with mates
and just enjoying themselves so you can.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Make it all summer the year at home, so.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
What well, who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But but there's always a cop in the French view Jordan, Right,
there's two for you, right coming.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
The great thing where we are for summer is it's
boat excess only, so you can really you know, it's
the best. It's the best of both because you know
they're great. And I will come and pick you up.
And ah, yeah there's something wrong with the boat.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Not today, you hide away. I welcome him. Come. Anyone
who's listening, all right, thanks guys, have.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
A good one.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Mate.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Jordan Williams taxpayers and the Stuart Nash, former Labor Cabinet
minister whose door apparently always open. Seven to six.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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