Jason Walls: Newstalk ZB political editor on the oral submissions regarding the Treaty Principles Bill being read out in Parliament

The architect of the Treaty Principles Bill claims the legislation would improve outcomes for Māori. 

Oral submissions were delivered in Parliament, including from ACT's David Seymour himself, experts from the New Zealand Māori Association and Hobson's Pledge members. 

Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls said the bill was subject to plenty of backlash - with Te Runanga o Toa Rangatira chief executive Helmut Modlik labelling it a 'race-based dog whistle'.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jason Walls joins us now our political editor and the
most workiest person in twenty twenty five at Newstalks MBA.
You've worked more than everybody else. Jason.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well, it's about quality as well as quantity, Andrew, and
you bring both to the table.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Well, I was talking about quality and quantity when it
came to the Treaty Principal's Bill when I opened up
the program today, because there's an awful lot of submissions,
but how many are on point?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh, that's the I mean, it's been a long day
in terms of the Treaty Principals submissions. And listen, I'm
going to keep it snappy because at this point we
all know what the bill is and who is on
what side. For example, you know you already know before
they open their mouths who all the four people are.
For example, David Seymour.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Having a free society where everyone's equal before the law,
where you can get a resource of content to build
a home for someone or start a business, there is
prosperity is good for all people.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
And then you've got the Hobson's Pledges having a free society,
which is also David Seymour. But I can assure you
Hobson's pledge were very for the bill. And then you've
got people on the other end of the spectrum in
terms of you know, Mari Leader Helmet Modlik.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
This Treaty Principles Bill is a constitutional solution looking for
a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Fin and then you had submitting on behalf of the
New Zealand Barus Sales Association, Chris Finleyson, who says the
principles do not describe the relationship between the Crown and
tangat Fenawa.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
There are principles that could possibly go in a written
constitutional though they aren't particularly well drafted, but they don't
belong in the Treaty of Waituani Principles Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
So a lot of toing and froing and submission started
at eight am and they're still going. So there's been
a marathon session for James Mega in his Justice Committee.
But I'll bring you back to this quote from David
Seymour very early this morning, because it was quite cryptic
in the way that he said it. Have a listen.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Finally, this bill, some will say, may not pass this time.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
We shall see.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
But I can tell you that you are part of
something important and inevitable.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
So that we will see was curious because it's not
to pass. The National Party said that they will not
be supporting it, and there's a practically zero percent chance
that they will change their mind. Because if you thought
the Hikhoi was huge in terms of the forty two
thousand estimated people that came to Wellington, imagine the size
of it if Chris Luxon went back on his word
and did support the bill. So I'm not sure what

(02:19):
it is that David Seymour is saying there, but the
bill will not pass.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, but he did. He said another quote over the
last little while as well, where he said it took
people a long time to get their hids around the
end of life legislation that he proposed, and similarly, they
may take people a long time to get their hids
around this Treaty Principal's Bill and Act and legislation that
he's proposing.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
So you know he is optimistic, yeah, and optimistic he
can be. It's good for his brand in terms of
the fact that every time the Treaty Principle's Bill is mentioned,
his polling tends to slide up a little bit. I
mean it does go down as well. But for the whole.
I think it's been quite good for him, So it's
in his interest to want to keep this debate going
as long as possible.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
True, and it's also the supporters of this bill will
hear that and say if it gets turfed out by
National that's not the end of it, and that it
is going to be a continuing battle, and so the
issue is not going to go away, and you and
I will still be discussing it for some months still
to come.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
She's I hope not. I'm done with it. I'm so
sick of it.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sorry. I was about to say, if not years and
possibly decades, so then.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
We go, I know, don't do that to me, right.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Nicola Willis made some statements of Wellington Airport today. We'll
talk about that in a few moments time. But she
has also indicated that certainly the sale of state owned
assets are not off the table.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Indeed, Yeah, it was an interesting comment by her because
privatization was that, you'll remember a key theme from David
Seymour's speech on Friday, and I'm sure doubt you're no
doubt aware of that. It has fully reignited the debate
around asset sales in New Zealand, which has got the
usual suspects all up in arms about it. It's in fact,
the Green Party has written a letter to the Prime
Minister to quote put this issue to bed once and

(03:55):
for all by him ruling out states or the sale
of public service. This is in key infrastructure. They feel
like the Prime Minister's not been entirely truthful in this debate,
especially given this interaction in the House in October last year.

Speaker 5 (04:10):
Are the government's choices to underfund critical infrastructure like our hospitals,
our schools and our theories essentially just setting them up
to fail to pave the way for an eventual sell
off of these crucial assets that we all own.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
The members in a very dark and conspiratorial mood today,
I just say, I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
We have no plans to do any asset sales.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
So we have no plans to do any asset sales.
But contrast that with what Nikola Willis said just this afternoon.
For some context, she was asked about a piece of
work the Treasure is undertaken to draw up a proposed
statement of sale for state owned enterprises owned by the Crown.
Here's what she said when asked about the progress of
this work.

Speaker 6 (04:56):
We have asked the Treasury to look at the assets
the government owns and ask itself whether we're doing a
good job managing them, why we own them, and whether
they're delivering well to their purpose. And they have identified
some areas where they think that the entity is no
longer delivering as well as it should to its purpose
and where we should consider other ways of managing that
seat and getting more from it. And we will have

(05:17):
more to say about NASH.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
So that does not sound very in line with that.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
We have no plans to do any sse at sales.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
In fact, Nicola Willis actually went further when she was
asked about a line in David Seymour's speech about Quotable Value,
which is a company owned by QVO, owned by guess mate.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
I'm talking to it right after six, so I'll put
that to it, and I thank you for your time today,
mister worker Jason Walls.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
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