February 3, 2025 • 7 mins
The Climate Minister is reiterating support for climate targets.
Act leader David Seymour's suggested New Zealand could pull out of the Paris Climate Agreement - following the lead of the US President.
Foreign Minister Winston Peters says questions need to be asked if large nations aren't signed up.
Climate Minister Simon Watts says we need to do all we can to meet climate targets.
"We've set a target which we believe is aligned with allowing us to do and achieve our economic growth ambitions - but also balancing that with our national interests."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Farming groups and taxpayers. The Taxpayers Union crying fell this
afternoon after the government last week signed the country up
to new ambitious climate targets. So here is the targets
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by fifty one to fifty
five percent below two thousand and five levels by twenty
thirty five.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Climate experts say that this target is actually more ambitious
than the previous governments, but to meet it they are
likely to either need to plant lots more trees or
to pay as much as twenty four billion dollars to
offset our emissions. Now, the ACT Party leader David Seymour
has suggested that we should actually just pull out and
rip up the climate a Paris climate called altogether. Simon
(00:41):
Watts is the Climate Change Minister and he's with me
this afternoon. Minister, Hello, hi, right, thanks for having me.
Why have you signed us up for targets that are
even more ambitious than the last governments.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Look, it's important that New Zealand is paying its path
in the context of these agreements. This as an international agreement.
We've set a target which we believe is aligned with
allowing us to do and achieve our economic growth. Ambitions,
but also balancing that with our national interests. We set
a target of fifty one by twenty thirty five, and
(01:13):
the current target is fifty by twenty thirty So that's
what we've done, but.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's I mean, it's still more than the last lot,
which I don't think is quite what fed farmers thought
they were voting for.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, the criteria when we set these targets, when countries
look to set these targets, is it needs to be
higher than the existing target. And so we've met that
commitment in terms of the target, but importantly, we've actually
aligned it with our domestic targets. We released a plan
late last year which provides a pathway for us to
meet those targets, and now our international target is aligned
(01:48):
with our domestic targets, and that's the first time that
that's been the case.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
To meet it, we're basically going to have to plant
a whole bunch of trees, or we're going to have
to pay a whole bunch of money.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It's the money or the trees.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
No, it's not. Our plans that we released last year
provide a pathway for us to meet the twenty thirty
five target. That's from a variety of means, including agricultural
emissions reduction, through some of the innovation that's currently underway
and in.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
The planning which we don't which we don't have certainty
about it right now, right, So let's put that to
one side for a second. So what about the trees.
How many trees do we need to plant?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, there is going to be a component of forestry
that will be part of the mix.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
How much it's not A bed farmer said you would
have to plant seventy five percent of Taranaki with trees
in order to meet your targets.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, that's that's simply not the reality. The numbers in
terms of the forestry acreage is part of our plans
that we released late late last year, and it comes
from a range of sectors. The fact in the narrative
of you know, going to have to plant you know
that degree of trees across New Zealanders and simply not
the rest.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
So how much is it then? How much do we
have to plant?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, it's going to be a reasonable amount of forestry,
But again, what's reasonable in our plans in terms of
the overarching hectares and stuff? I haven't got that in
front of me right now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's possible, it could be seventy five percent of the
size of Tatanaki.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
You're just not sure right now.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It's not it is not a material increase in the
context of the forestry that we already had underwear.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What about the twenty four billion dollars that we're on
the hook for if we don't meet the targets, Well.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Again, that is not correct. There's no design. Doesn't get
an invoice from someone in twenty thirty for paying that
amount of money.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The way, but we have to buy the credits right.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, the way these international commitments and work is that,
you know, we need to do our absolute you know,
everything that we can do in order to meet the targets,
and we're focused on domestic action to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, but if we don't meet the targets I'm talking about,
if we don't meet the targets, do we have to
go out and spend twenty four billion dollars buying up credits?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
No, we don't, and the government has been clear that
we don't want to be sending billions of dollars overseas
and we have no current.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So what do we do if we don't meet the targets,
what do we and we're not going to buy any credits?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
What do we do? Well?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
What reality is is that we've still got time between
now and twenty thirty. We're working through our plans. But
the targets that I released last year relates to twenty
thirty five and that's the.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Targets this givement.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So there's no plan B. We signed this agreement and
you're hell bent on sticking to it. It seems if
we don't meet the targets, you don't One you don't
know how many trees will have to plant to get there.
But two, if we don't meet the targets, we're not
going to be buying any carbon credits to make up
the difference. So what we'll be in breach of the agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You're talking about two different years. We're talking about the
twenty thirty five target that this government has said. We've
released an emission's reduction plan that shows a pathway of
how we're going to meet that. The target as twenty
thirty that was entered into by the prior government is
significantly challenging and we're currently looking at all options around that,
and we're focused on domestic action. But in regard to
(05:11):
the twenty thirty five target, which is a target that
we have set as a government, that is the one
that we have a pathway to achieve through the misiontroduction
plans that we published late last year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Right, and if we don't meet the twenty thirty five
what do we do?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, we will do absolutely everything we can to meet that.
But I.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Mean, this is what bed farmers are saying. Bed Farmers
and the text pas Engine come out and said, well,
I mean, we're not going to meet it unless we
planned a whole bunch of trees. And if we don't
plant a whole bunch of trees, then we'll have to
pay something.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
The plans that we released last year show the initiatives
that we have currently got in flight up today get
us pretty much there. In the context of the twenty
thirty five target. Yes, we're going to need to do
a few other things, but there is a lot of
consideration around how much we're going to get out of
the meet sane innovation. As you said, you know, a
lot of that is still work in progress, but there's
(06:05):
also other aspects around you know, what industry does Fontera
are already announcing some pretty significant plans around decarbonization in
the last few weeks. The doubling of the renewables is
all going to play its part. How quickly people continue
to up take ev vehicles will play into the mix.
You know this is twenty thirty five tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well we'll live in hope. Do you have a problem
with FED farmers? Apparently you haven't met them since November.
They've been dying to meet with you about this, But
you've met with Greenpeace, the World Wildlife Fund, the Alta Circle,
whatever that is.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No, I don't. I grew up on a farm, Ryan,
so I don't have a new problem with the Fed farmers.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Quite the off one.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You meet them, my office talught with them regularly.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But why haven't you told them.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
What my understanding is. I will be doing so in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So you run your you run your agenda.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Why haven't you met with them?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I meet a number of representatives from FED Farmers in
a number of engagements.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That sounds vague, and we're saying when it's not. They've
asked to meet with you about this issue before it
came out. Since November, you haven't met with them. That
seems a bit of a snub.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, it's not a snub, not at all. No, we
engage regularly with bed farmers and I look forward to
catching up with them in due course.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Simon Wat's climent, Minister, thank you very much for your time.
Great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Farming groups and taxpayers. The Taxpayers Union crying fell this
afternoon after the government last week signed the country up
to new ambitious climate targets. So here is the targets
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by fifty one to fifty
five percent below two thousand and five levels by twenty
thirty five.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Climate experts say that this target is actually more ambitious
than the previous governments, but to meet it they are
likely to either need to plant lots more trees or
to pay as much as twenty four billion dollars to
offset our emissions. Now, the ACT Party leader David Seymour
has suggested that we should actually just pull out and
rip up the climate a Paris climate called altogether. Simon
(00:41):
Watts is the Climate Change Minister and he's with me
this afternoon. Minister, Hello, hi, right, thanks for having me.
Why have you signed us up for targets that are
even more ambitious than the last governments.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Look, it's important that New Zealand is paying its path
in the context of these agreements. This as an international agreement.
We've set a target which we believe is aligned with
allowing us to do and achieve our economic growth. Ambitions,
but also balancing that with our national interests. We set
a target of fifty one by twenty thirty five, and
(01:13):
the current target is fifty by twenty thirty So that's
what we've done, but.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's I mean, it's still more than the last lot,
which I don't think is quite what fed farmers thought
they were voting for.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, the criteria when we set these targets, when countries
look to set these targets, is it needs to be
higher than the existing target. And so we've met that
commitment in terms of the target, but importantly, we've actually
aligned it with our domestic targets. We released a plan
late last year which provides a pathway for us to
meet those targets, and now our international target is aligned
(01:48):
with our domestic targets, and that's the first time that
that's been the case.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
To meet it, we're basically going to have to plant
a whole bunch of trees, or we're going to have
to pay a whole bunch of money.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It's the money or the trees.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
No, it's not. Our plans that we released last year
provide a pathway for us to meet the twenty thirty
five target. That's from a variety of means, including agricultural
emissions reduction, through some of the innovation that's currently underway
and in.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
The planning which we don't which we don't have certainty
about it right now, right, So let's put that to
one side for a second. So what about the trees.
How many trees do we need to plant?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, there is going to be a component of forestry
that will be part of the mix.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
How much it's not A bed farmer said you would
have to plant seventy five percent of Taranaki with trees
in order to meet your targets.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, that's that's simply not the reality. The numbers in
terms of the forestry acreage is part of our plans
that we released late late last year, and it comes
from a range of sectors. The fact in the narrative
of you know, going to have to plant you know
that degree of trees across New Zealanders and simply not
the rest.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
So how much is it then? How much do we
have to plant?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, it's going to be a reasonable amount of forestry,
But again, what's reasonable in our plans in terms of
the overarching hectares and stuff? I haven't got that in
front of me right now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It's possible, it could be seventy five percent of the
size of Tatanaki.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
You're just not sure right now.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It's not it is not a material increase in the
context of the forestry that we already had underwear.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What about the twenty four billion dollars that we're on
the hook for if we don't meet the targets, Well.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Again, that is not correct. There's no design. Doesn't get
an invoice from someone in twenty thirty for paying that
amount of money.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The way, but we have to buy the credits right.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, the way these international commitments and work is that,
you know, we need to do our absolute you know,
everything that we can do in order to meet the targets,
and we're focused on domestic action to do that.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, but if we don't meet the targets I'm talking about,
if we don't meet the targets, do we have to
go out and spend twenty four billion dollars buying up credits?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
No, we don't, and the government has been clear that
we don't want to be sending billions of dollars overseas
and we have no current.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So what do we do if we don't meet the targets,
what do we and we're not going to buy any credits?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
What do we do? Well?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
What reality is is that we've still got time between
now and twenty thirty. We're working through our plans. But
the targets that I released last year relates to twenty
thirty five and that's the.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Targets this givement.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So there's no plan B. We signed this agreement and
you're hell bent on sticking to it. It seems if
we don't meet the targets, you don't One you don't
know how many trees will have to plant to get there.
But two, if we don't meet the targets, we're not
going to be buying any carbon credits to make up
the difference. So what we'll be in breach of the agreement.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You're talking about two different years. We're talking about the
twenty thirty five target that this government has said. We've
released an emission's reduction plan that shows a pathway of
how we're going to meet that. The target as twenty
thirty that was entered into by the prior government is
significantly challenging and we're currently looking at all options around that,
and we're focused on domestic action. But in regard to
(05:11):
the twenty thirty five target, which is a target that
we have set as a government, that is the one
that we have a pathway to achieve through the misiontroduction
plans that we published late last year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Right, and if we don't meet the twenty thirty five
what do we do?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, we will do absolutely everything we can to meet that.
But I.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Mean, this is what bed farmers are saying. Bed Farmers
and the text pas Engine come out and said, well,
I mean, we're not going to meet it unless we
planned a whole bunch of trees. And if we don't
plant a whole bunch of trees, then we'll have to
pay something.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
The plans that we released last year show the initiatives
that we have currently got in flight up today get
us pretty much there. In the context of the twenty
thirty five target. Yes, we're going to need to do
a few other things, but there is a lot of
consideration around how much we're going to get out of
the meet sane innovation. As you said, you know, a
lot of that is still work in progress, but there's
(06:05):
also other aspects around you know, what industry does Fontera
are already announcing some pretty significant plans around decarbonization in
the last few weeks. The doubling of the renewables is
all going to play its part. How quickly people continue
to up take ev vehicles will play into the mix.
You know this is twenty thirty five tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well we'll live in hope. Do you have a problem
with FED farmers? Apparently you haven't met them since November.
They've been dying to meet with you about this, But
you've met with Greenpeace, the World Wildlife Fund, the Alta Circle,
whatever that is.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No, I don't. I grew up on a farm, Ryan,
so I don't have a new problem with the Fed farmers.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Quite the off one.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You meet them, my office talught with them regularly.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But why haven't you told them.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
What my understanding is. I will be doing so in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So you run your you run your agenda.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Why haven't you met with them?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I meet a number of representatives from FED Farmers in
a number of engagements.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That sounds vague, and we're saying when it's not. They've
asked to meet with you about this issue before it
came out. Since November, you haven't met with them. That
seems a bit of a snub.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, it's not a snub, not at all. No, we
engage regularly with bed farmers and I look forward to
catching up with them in due course.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Simon Wat's climent, Minister, thank you very much for your time.
Great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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