February 18, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, former Labour MP Stuart Nash and Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
The IPCA wants new rules on how to deal with protests - and what responsibilities lie with organisers. Do we think these changes are needed?
A damning report was released, revealing how Government agencies shared New Zealanders' private information without making sure the data would be kept safe. The head of Stats NZ won't seek reappointment, but no other public servants will face punishment. Is there a risk people just won't trust the Government with their personal information anymore?
Are we guilty of looking at our phones while we watch TV? Netflix is looking to create more 'second screen' shows to appeal to distracted viewers. What do we make of this?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddled with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joining me tonight's Stuart Nation Formal Labor Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hey Stuart, Hey, you're right. How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Very good? Thank you. Marris Williamson's here to all can
counsel the former National Minister. Good evening. You've got to
feel for the police, Stuart, because there is between a
rock and a hard place, especially at the moment with
the protest that we're seeing, and they've got cameras on
them and they're damned if they go too hard, and
they're damned if they go too soft.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, man, as a former Minister of Police, anything that
can remove the ambiguity from the role of the fantastic
men and woman on the front line, I'm in support
off And if the framework is not suitable for purpose
at the moment, then give them a new framework. I mean,
I'm all for this, to be.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Honest, man, Yeah, just not quite sure what's wrong with
the current framework.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, if there is ambiguity, and it seems as if
there is a bit of ambiguity, if police don't know
what they can and can't do, then there's always going
to be gray areas, but provide a framework which is
fit for purpose makes it a lot easier to police.
Police know what they're doing, but.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Morris, they should know. I mean, if you hunt someone,
that's an offense. If you go on the road, that's
an offense.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Yeah, I think. I think anything that involves physical activity
in terms of hurting and damaging people or property, anything
in terms of threats and so on, I think is
an absolute you've foregone your right to be there. You
want to go on peacefully protest. I did it over
Vietnam War and all sorts of shit years ago, but
we peacefully. We've had signs and you know, down with
America and all that for over Vietnam, but you didn't
(01:28):
go out and start causing the riots. And the police
should have absolutely every right to intervene when people are
threatening personal safety and security. And I think they can
do that now if they were given a proper edict
from their high command.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I think that is probably more the point, isn't it, Stuart,
That it's the top brass that maybe say, oh look
this is a bit political, let's hold back. That's more
than anything. Probably what stopped police from getting involved.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Oh look, I don't think that's the case. There is
no say that is. You know, I've known a lot
of top cops over the time, and they're very good men,
women who put the health and safety of their front
line officers as their number cost. I well, I don't
think they say you can't do this because of political ramifications.
They allow their men and women on the front line
to do what they need to do to control the situation.
(02:15):
I agree with Marris. If you're smacking someone, then my
guid the police should be able to do whatever they
need to be able to do. But if the framework
provides ambiguity at the moment, then put a new framework
and play so, you know, so it removes ambiguility and
the police know exactly what they need to do.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
The worst part about it all is the number of
cameras there. Everyone's got a camera, everyone's filming it, and
you've got police sitting there thinking if I grab this
person who's blocking the road, stuffing people's lives and every
and I even push them out of the way, that'll
be the story exactly. And I think the news media
have got a lot to sort of answer for about
making it the big story when all you did is
clear somebody out of blocking a road and allow people
(02:54):
to travel.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I agree with you one hundred pcent. Mars.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Guys will leave this here because we have so much
to discuss. When we come back, Stuart Nash and Morris
Williamson will get to the report from the State Services Commission.
This is on your data, your census data, your vaccination data,
Where is it ending up and what checks and balances
are in place to make sure it doesn't get in
the wrong hands.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty Elevator Marketing
of your Home just.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Gone fourteen minutes away from six News Talk, said BZ
Stuart Nash and Marris Williamson on the huddle tonight. So
we've had the State Services Commission report out today and
it says that with the census and the vaccination data,
that it was released to third parties and we didn't
have proper checks and balances in place to make sure
nothing untoward happened with it. So on the question of
(03:43):
did anything untoward happen with it, the answer is we
actually don't know, and this report doesn't tell us. Stuart,
I'm dying to know what you think about.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
This bloody outrageous Ryan. You know, we asked Keys to
give us a lot of data because we need the
data to inform policies. And if kiwis believe that data
hasn't been kept safe, then they just won't trust the government.
I think this is outrageous. And you know the guy,
the head of Statsuw Zealander, he's not standing down, he's
just not seeking reappointment. I think he should go immediately.
(04:12):
I mean the report is damning. The words in the
report are things like, you know, significant failure, ignored staff concerns,
reconflict of interest. You know, this is this is really
really bad. And if the public lose confidence in the
government to keep their data safe, they just won't give it.
So I think this is this is this is really bad.
(04:33):
It's outrageous, maur As.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You think it should be gone now too.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, one hundred per cent. You're dead right high and
the longest serving ever Minister of Statistics in New Zealand
fourteen years. I think I hold the port far and
all I can tell you is that the integrity of
that data is absolutely everything. People will cooperate at census
time and so on if they know that that data
is anonymized and never used for anything. If they think
it leaks out, you can forget the value of any census.
(04:58):
It will bempletely valueless.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Interesting that they've were in terms of the White Day
to trust the money RAE WOMI and the Final Order
Commissioning Agency. They've said with funding going forward that not
just them actually, but all third parties will have to
meet a certain standard before they will give them any
more money in the future. Stewart, and that will include
(05:21):
things like, you know, your conflict dealing with your conflicts
of interest. So that's an interesting development.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah. Well, look, there are times when you do need
to share data to inform decisions, there's no doubt about that.
But but if anything compromises the integrity of that, then
you know it's got to go. And I don't think
these organizations should get any money. I mean, the report
says it's not there to find fault, But if you
read the report and you read the recommendations that have
come out of the report and the conclusions in the report,
(05:50):
it kind of draws a bow that that this data
hasn't been used well. Staff concerns we've taken notice of
don't give these guys any more money if they if
they're if they're lacking integrity.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
What's unacceptable here? As an organization whose role is to
promise to guarantee you the integrity of the data they
collect from you, now saying oh, well, we'll look to
improve our role and function. Sorry, you should have been
absolutely at a grade role and function protection of data
right from day zero. And if you weren't, you shouldn't
have been the chief executive.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, and well, and to be fair, is only the
acting one anyway, but it will be gone at the
end of his contract, So be gone. Now are you guilty?
And I don't think it's actually anything that you should
be ashamed of, Stuart, But are you guilty of using
your phone while watching TV? You know, double scrolling?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
No, I'm not. I read the story. I mean, this
is just a further dumbing down of society, right, I
don't need to be spoonfeed the TV show. This This
is Netflix saying again, a dumb down shows because people
are screening and they can't concentrate on two things at
one time. I mean, give me a break, you know,
every now and again, I look at my especially if
you just playing cricket. You look at crick info or
your messages every now and again, But it doesn't mean
(06:58):
I can't double. I can't look at the TV show well,
checking my message have been now and again. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You think you think you're a superman. You can do
it all, you're mister master.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But I'm not seeing men. Look, but I can.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You can follow two things, well, I'm going to confess
right here and now I can't. And the worst thing is,
I've hardly ever seen the end of any TV show
or any movie. I get, honest, Oh, this looks good,
and then I'm on the phone, and then I see
the screen and then some text comes in, and I
go off and send some emails, and I come back
in the wife says it's over. It was quite a
good movie, and a god bugger got to wait. I'll
try and watch it again some other times.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
At least at least it's not because you're not falling asleep.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Because it's not falling asleep, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's interesting, though, isn't it, Because they're basically going to
take out You know, when you watch a movie and
there's lots of action scenes, when if you're just listening
to something. Those action scenes, you missle everything that's happened,
so there'll be less action and a lot more dialogue,
which to me sounds more like a podcast. I would
have thought that was.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
More like parlor.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
What's the point action? Yeah, so they're either longer or
there boring. I mean, you know, imagine Terminator as four
hours as supposed to two hours. I'm being slightly glid,
but give us some credit. You know, if you can
check your messages and watch the TV at the same time,
well there's something wrong with you. Yeah, fair enough, Sorry Marus,
(08:14):
no disrespect mate, but nothing's going to.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Say I thought I thought Terminator was the Public Service Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, actually, just quickly before we go, now that you've
raised it, Mars, which departments would you put the bomb
under first?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Oh? I've got a list so long. I mean, there
are so many trivial little units with such no gravitas
and so on. If they've got a role and function,
make them a particular little office within a department with
one chief executive, not forty six was it can't remember
the number.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, and in nearly forty agencies.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
It's insane. Honestly, we've just every time there's been a
little itch politically to scratch it, we've oh, we'll make
a Ministry of you know, small grain and seeds to
help those people. And you go, no, stop this, that
we are over bureaucratized. The whole problem. We've got way
too much bureaucracy killing any innovation, and you've got to
actually pull a whole lot of that stuff out of there.
(09:07):
I'm delighted what Sir Brian Roach has at least floated.
Hopefully he carries it through.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Look Sir Brian's a legend, there's no doubt about that.
But it's almost Monty pythonish to have a ministry for
cutting red tape and regulation. David, it is, it actually is.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You have to you have to agree with that.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Set up a new ministry for reducing ministries.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Exactly exactly, and we've just added another one with the
Minister of Growth, for goodness sakes, goes to the Southland.
I don't know where does the list in.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
No, well, I was hoping for the Chad of Islands portfolio,
but I never picked it up.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister, Morris Williamson Auckland Councilor,
former National Minister and falling asleep before the end of
every movie. Eight minutes Away from six News Talk Said B.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
News Talk Said B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeart Radio out
The huddled with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
global exposure like no other.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Joining me tonight's Stuart Nation Formal Labor Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hey Stuart, Hey, you're right. How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Very good? Thank you. Marris Williamson's here to all can
counsel the former National Minister. Good evening. You've got to
feel for the police, Stuart, because there is between a
rock and a hard place, especially at the moment with
the protest that we're seeing, and they've got cameras on
them and they're damned if they go too hard, and
they're damned if they go too soft.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, man, as a former Minister of Police, anything that
can remove the ambiguity from the role of the fantastic
men and woman on the front line, I'm in support
off And if the framework is not suitable for purpose
at the moment, then give them a new framework. I mean,
I'm all for this, to be.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Honest, man, Yeah, just not quite sure what's wrong with
the current framework.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Well, if there is ambiguity, and it seems as if
there is a bit of ambiguity, if police don't know
what they can and can't do, then there's always going
to be gray areas, but provide a framework which is
fit for purpose makes it a lot easier to police.
Police know what they're doing, but.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Morris, they should know. I mean, if you hunt someone,
that's an offense. If you go on the road, that's
an offense.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Yeah, I think. I think anything that involves physical activity
in terms of hurting and damaging people or property, anything
in terms of threats and so on, I think is
an absolute you've foregone your right to be there. You
want to go on peacefully protest. I did it over
Vietnam War and all sorts of shit years ago, but
we peacefully. We've had signs and you know, down with
America and all that for over Vietnam, but you didn't
(01:28):
go out and start causing the riots. And the police
should have absolutely every right to intervene when people are
threatening personal safety and security. And I think they can
do that now if they were given a proper edict
from their high command.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I think that is probably more the point, isn't it, Stuart,
That it's the top brass that maybe say, oh look
this is a bit political, let's hold back. That's more
than anything. Probably what stopped police from getting involved.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Oh look, I don't think that's the case. There is
no say that is. You know, I've known a lot
of top cops over the time, and they're very good men,
women who put the health and safety of their front
line officers as their number cost. I well, I don't
think they say you can't do this because of political ramifications.
They allow their men and women on the front line
to do what they need to do to control the situation.
(02:15):
I agree with Marris. If you're smacking someone, then my
guid the police should be able to do whatever they
need to be able to do. But if the framework
provides ambiguity at the moment, then put a new framework
and play so, you know, so it removes ambiguility and
the police know exactly what they need to do.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
The worst part about it all is the number of
cameras there. Everyone's got a camera, everyone's filming it, and
you've got police sitting there thinking if I grab this
person who's blocking the road, stuffing people's lives and every
and I even push them out of the way, that'll
be the story exactly. And I think the news media
have got a lot to sort of answer for about
making it the big story when all you did is
clear somebody out of blocking a road and allow people
(02:54):
to travel.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I agree with you one hundred pcent. Mars.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Guys will leave this here because we have so much
to discuss. When we come back, Stuart Nash and Morris
Williamson will get to the report from the State Services Commission.
This is on your data, your census data, your vaccination data,
Where is it ending up and what checks and balances
are in place to make sure it doesn't get in
the wrong hands.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty Elevator Marketing
of your Home just.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Gone fourteen minutes away from six News Talk, said BZ
Stuart Nash and Marris Williamson on the huddle tonight. So
we've had the State Services Commission report out today and
it says that with the census and the vaccination data,
that it was released to third parties and we didn't
have proper checks and balances in place to make sure
nothing untoward happened with it. So on the question of
(03:43):
did anything untoward happen with it, the answer is we
actually don't know, and this report doesn't tell us. Stuart,
I'm dying to know what you think about.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
This bloody outrageous Ryan. You know, we asked Keys to
give us a lot of data because we need the
data to inform policies. And if kiwis believe that data
hasn't been kept safe, then they just won't trust the government.
I think this is outrageous. And you know the guy,
the head of Statsuw Zealander, he's not standing down, he's
just not seeking reappointment. I think he should go immediately.
(04:12):
I mean the report is damning. The words in the
report are things like, you know, significant failure, ignored staff concerns,
reconflict of interest. You know, this is this is really
really bad. And if the public lose confidence in the
government to keep their data safe, they just won't give it.
So I think this is this is this is really bad.
(04:33):
It's outrageous, maur As.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
You think it should be gone now too.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, one hundred per cent. You're dead right high and
the longest serving ever Minister of Statistics in New Zealand
fourteen years. I think I hold the port far and
all I can tell you is that the integrity of
that data is absolutely everything. People will cooperate at census
time and so on if they know that that data
is anonymized and never used for anything. If they think
it leaks out, you can forget the value of any census.
(04:58):
It will bempletely valueless.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Interesting that they've were in terms of the White Day
to trust the money RAE WOMI and the Final Order
Commissioning Agency. They've said with funding going forward that not
just them actually, but all third parties will have to
meet a certain standard before they will give them any
more money in the future. Stewart, and that will include
(05:21):
things like, you know, your conflict dealing with your conflicts
of interest. So that's an interesting development.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah. Well, look, there are times when you do need
to share data to inform decisions, there's no doubt about that.
But but if anything compromises the integrity of that, then
you know it's got to go. And I don't think
these organizations should get any money. I mean, the report
says it's not there to find fault, But if you
read the report and you read the recommendations that have
come out of the report and the conclusions in the report,
(05:50):
it kind of draws a bow that that this data
hasn't been used well. Staff concerns we've taken notice of
don't give these guys any more money if they if
they're if they're lacking integrity.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
What's unacceptable here? As an organization whose role is to
promise to guarantee you the integrity of the data they
collect from you, now saying oh, well, we'll look to
improve our role and function. Sorry, you should have been
absolutely at a grade role and function protection of data
right from day zero. And if you weren't, you shouldn't
have been the chief executive.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, and well, and to be fair, is only the
acting one anyway, but it will be gone at the
end of his contract, So be gone. Now are you guilty?
And I don't think it's actually anything that you should
be ashamed of, Stuart, But are you guilty of using
your phone while watching TV? You know, double scrolling?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
No, I'm not. I read the story. I mean, this
is just a further dumbing down of society, right, I
don't need to be spoonfeed the TV show. This This
is Netflix saying again, a dumb down shows because people
are screening and they can't concentrate on two things at
one time. I mean, give me a break, you know,
every now and again, I look at my especially if
you just playing cricket. You look at crick info or
your messages every now and again, But it doesn't mean
(06:58):
I can't double. I can't look at the TV show well,
checking my message have been now and again. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You think you think you're a superman. You can do
it all, you're mister master.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But I'm not seeing men. Look, but I can.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
You can follow two things, well, I'm going to confess
right here and now I can't. And the worst thing is,
I've hardly ever seen the end of any TV show
or any movie. I get, honest, Oh, this looks good,
and then I'm on the phone, and then I see
the screen and then some text comes in, and I
go off and send some emails, and I come back
in the wife says it's over. It was quite a
good movie, and a god bugger got to wait. I'll
try and watch it again some other times.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
At least at least it's not because you're not falling asleep.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Because it's not falling asleep, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It's interesting, though, isn't it, Because they're basically going to
take out You know, when you watch a movie and
there's lots of action scenes, when if you're just listening
to something. Those action scenes, you missle everything that's happened,
so there'll be less action and a lot more dialogue,
which to me sounds more like a podcast. I would
have thought that was.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
More like parlor.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
What's the point action? Yeah, so they're either longer or
there boring. I mean, you know, imagine Terminator as four
hours as supposed to two hours. I'm being slightly glid,
but give us some credit. You know, if you can
check your messages and watch the TV at the same time,
well there's something wrong with you. Yeah, fair enough, Sorry Marus,
(08:14):
no disrespect mate, but nothing's going to.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Say I thought I thought Terminator was the Public Service Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, actually, just quickly before we go, now that you've
raised it, Mars, which departments would you put the bomb
under first?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Oh? I've got a list so long. I mean, there
are so many trivial little units with such no gravitas
and so on. If they've got a role and function,
make them a particular little office within a department with
one chief executive, not forty six was it can't remember
the number.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, and in nearly forty agencies.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
It's insane. Honestly, we've just every time there's been a
little itch politically to scratch it, we've oh, we'll make
a Ministry of you know, small grain and seeds to
help those people. And you go, no, stop this, that
we are over bureaucratized. The whole problem. We've got way
too much bureaucracy killing any innovation, and you've got to
actually pull a whole lot of that stuff out of there.
(09:07):
I'm delighted what Sir Brian Roach has at least floated.
Hopefully he carries it through.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Look Sir Brian's a legend, there's no doubt about that.
But it's almost Monty pythonish to have a ministry for
cutting red tape and regulation. David, it is, it actually is.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You have to you have to agree with that.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Set up a new ministry for reducing ministries.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Exactly exactly, and we've just added another one with the
Minister of Growth, for goodness sakes, goes to the Southland.
I don't know where does the list in.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
No, well, I was hoping for the Chad of Islands portfolio,
but I never picked it up.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister, Morris Williamson Auckland Councilor,
former National Minister and falling asleep before the end of
every movie. Eight minutes Away from six News Talk Said B.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to
News Talk Said B from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeart Radio out
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