Dr Michael Gousmet: Charites expert on the call to strike Destiny Church off the charities register

Labour MP Phil Twyford has called for Destiny Church to be taken off the charities register after they targeted the LGBTQ community last weekend.

Members of the church barricaded 30 people, including children, into a room during a drag-king event.

Charites expert Michael Gousmet clears up confusion around the many Destiny Churches in NZ, and talks to Ryan Bridge about what justifies being deregistered.

"What you've got to prove is serious wrongdoing ... the concept of serious wrongdoing is very, very hard to prove."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bryan Bridge, Tiatstar MP Phil Twyford is calling for Destiny
Church to be struck off the charities register at phild
Twefet has penned the letter to the Charities Regulator alleging
wrongdoing over the library protests. He's suggesting they should lose
their tax deductibility status. Dr Michael Goomet is an independent
researcher specializing in charities and he's with me this evening.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hi, Michael, good evening, Ryan.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
So what do you have to do to get struck off?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, this is back up a week second. This just
so happens that I also wrote a letter to the
press yesterday which they haven't published. I hope they've published
it tomorrow. And this is what I said. I don't
need charities like these bullies on our charities register as
they taint the spector with their unchristian behavior. So that's
the first thing. What are we dealing with here? What
exactly does still mean when he says as a Destiny Church?

(00:51):
So can I just give you all readers a little
bit of background to this, because there's more than one
Destiny Church in New Zealand, and in fact, there's twenty
five on the register. Here's the thing. So far, six
of those churches have been deregistered already because they hadn't
filed there in the returns, and that's what happened. Another seven,
Heaven had got themselves removed from the register resuming because

(01:14):
they don't want the public scrutinizing their financial statements. So
we've got fourteen entities there that have already been removed
from the register. So it leaves you eleven entities behind.
The wintel says, let's deregister the Destiny Church. What are
we looking at here? That there has been referenced to
the New Zealand Trust, which hasn't filed any financial since
twenty twenty two. We let's have a look at the

(01:36):
New Zealand Trust. What does its indeed say? It says
that their function is to accept guidance and support of
Destiny International Trust as a networking body of Destiny Church.
That's the Destiny International Trust. Yes, what that got deregistered
in twenty twenty two, So you know, my god, what
have we got left to register?

Speaker 1 (01:57):
I guess the question that people want to know from
you is what do you you have? So you don't
file a return? You can be deregistered you don't include
enough detail in the return, you can be deregistered. Can
you be deregistered for being a thug?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Not as such? What you've got to prove a serious
wrongdoing and that's specific. And there's an excellent interview with
Lisa on Ray in New Zealand after them with filth.
And the issue that we're all aware of is this
concept of serious wrongdoing. Now I know, for my own
expert what does it mean?

Speaker 1 (02:27):
What does it mean that I'm coming to.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's what I'm coming with. The concept of serious wrongdoing
is very very hard to prove. I know that from
my own experience dealing with baddies. But any right thinking
person can see that what Destiny is up to is
well beyond the pale and.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
The way that they but wrongdoing. Is that financial wrongdoing
that they're talking.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
About, Well, that's one of the issues, but there's no
evidence of that at this state. What we're talking about
is just fears wrongdoing in the sense that these people
are behaving.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
And that's washy, washy, Michael. That's the problem because if
the law says it's serious wrongdoing and it's referring to
financial matters, then that is one issue. But if the
law says you can't just do register a charity because
you think they're a thug, then you might run into
some problems. Michael, I appreciate you coming on the program.
Thank you very much for doing so. That's doctor Michael

(03:19):
Goome who's the independent researcher specializing in charities. For more
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