Andrew Little: former Defence Minister on the Government hinting it'll increase military spending

The Government has hinted it wants to increase military spending, as geopolitical escalations taking place off the coast prompt concern.

Three Chinese Navy ships have been conducting live fire rounds in the Tasman Sea in recent days - and details are coming to light of its new deal with the Cook Islands.

Former Defence Minister Andrew Little says China's economy has grown - along with the size of its military. 

"We need to make sure that our equipment is modern, up to spec, and works with our defence partners - whether it's Australia, the UK or the US or whoever."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Prepare for a defense heavy budget come made. The government
is openly saying we need a massive boost to the
military's funding. Currently we're at one point one percent of GDP.
That's five billion dollars a year. We could get as
high as two. It comes as these three Chinese navy
ships conducted live firing exercises in the Tasman. Andrew Little's
the former Defense minister, Andrew good to have you on

(00:21):
the show. Good right now you are a really good
Thank you now. Judith Collins and the government they have
to be careful how they frame their response, but you
don't anymore. How serious, how significant is what they're doing
in the Tasman.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, it is. And this has been happening for a
long time China. As it has become economically more wealthy,
it's become more powerful, it's engaged in the world, but
it's been building as military at the same time as
well as well. It now has one of the largest
navies in the world and it's well equipped. And they
do that to project themselves and their power around the world.

(00:59):
And they're doing that in the at the moment. They
do that because they want to send the message to
everybody that they are here, that they're powerful and they
want to use their influence. We have to not if
we're not such a match with that, we can't be
We're not the size of China. We have to be
able to equip ourselves to work with others so that
we are a match for it. And we need to

(01:19):
make sure that our equipment is modern, up to spec
and works with our defensive partners, whether it's the Australia,
the UK, the US or whoever.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
You were working on this plan that we still haven't
actually got our hands on from this government, the fifteen
year Defense Plan. What are we actually if we're going
to spend billions more, which it sounds like this government
is buttering us up for, what do we actually need
to buy?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yes, I think I mean our maritime capability is obviously
central where you know we're in the south South Pacific.
We've got to be able to get around. We have
a number of ships at the moment that we can't
creue properly. We have to think about what we want.
That probably means new and different ships. The other thing
is remote technology, so being able to fly craft that

(02:06):
are pilot listen, what have you to get around our region?
To do the surveillance sort of the sort of stuff
that our poseidon piates are doing, but at a simpler
level and in a way that is sort of more
disposable because you know, there's not carrying any people on it.
I think a lot of that remote technology is kind
of where the future, as other defense forces around the

(02:27):
world are equipping themselves with that sort of stuff, So
it's going to be the new generation technology stuff that
we need to be looking at.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Realistically, is anyone going to invade New Zealand? I mean
we would be helping others to fight at sea, really,
wouldn't we? That would be our purpose.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I think. I mean two things. What, we've never
been able to defend ourselves on our own, We've never
been in that position. We work with others to do that,
but there is an expectation that you know, we are
doing something in fact doing enough to provide some level
of defense. And then the other thing is that we
work with others to defend them and other parts of
the world. You know, we've supported Ukraine with training their troops.

(03:10):
We've been stationed in the Middle East for donkeys years
as a peacekeeping force. We do all those sorts of things.
So there's an expectation that we make a contribution around
the world to uphold the liberal, social democratic sort of
values that we've got.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Just finally, I think it's a little odd that we
have a problem in New Zealand with leasing our allies,
as in the United States come here with their warships
that are nuclear powered. Is that something you think we
need to look at. I mean, if we're going to
double our defense budget, surely looking at that would be
on the table.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah. I don't think. Well, I don't think there's any
appetite in New Zealand for any kind of nuclear capability.
It's not something we've been part of, and the realities,
although there is nuclear deterrence around, we haven't been part
of it. We've argued strongly about the morality of that.
We are very good at supporting others and engaging ourselves
in conventional warfare called conventional combat. I think that's where

(04:06):
our priority needs to be and we don't lose anything
by maintaining our nuclear free stance. We work closely with
the US and others, and even if Australia do give
the nuclear submarines, then you know we'll continue to work
closely with Australia.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
All Right, Andrew, thank you very much for your time.
Great to have you on the show. Andrew Littleby, former
Defense Minister. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
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