Despite some less-than-ideal poll figures, Minister Nicola Willis doesn't believe Kiwis have lost faith in the Government.
The latest Taxpayers Union-Curia Poll has Labour on 34.1 percent, overtaking National on 33.6 percent.
Chris Hipkins is also ahead of Chris Luxon as preferred Prime Minister.
Nicola Willis says there's plenty of polls left between now and the 2026 election - and she's focused on results.
"My focus is never on a poll, it's always on how we can deliver for New Zealanders. And New Zealanders are letting us know loud and clear that they want us focused on reducing their cost of living, growing this economy, delivering better education and health services."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now. Nikola Willis is the Finance Minister, issues with me.
Good evening, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Evening, Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm very well, thank you. It's a beautiful sunny day
in Wellington, just gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Great to hear. Are you feeling is the six pm
news is beautiful and sunny? Or are you a bit
upset about those poll numbers?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I haven't seen the six pm news, but look, my
focus is never on a poll. It's always on how
can we deliver for New Zealanders? And New Zealanders are
letting us know loud and clear that they want us
focused on reducing their cost of living, growing this economy,
delivering better education and health services, and that is exactly
(00:39):
what we are focused on. So between now and the
election there'll be a lot of polls. My focus is
on delivery and there.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Is absolutely no appetite from anyone within your party or
from you to get rid of lux into Rollin before
the election. You're one hundred percent confident he's the right
guy for the election. That's right, Okay, all right, let's
move on Adrian or why wasn't he the right guy
for the job? What happened?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, as you know last week he made the decision
to resign from his role as Reserve Bank Governor. That's
a matter he engaged with the Reserve Bank Board on
which was subsequently announced, and I've wished him well for
the future.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Did you ever find out what was going on?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Look, the Board had informed me via the Secretary for
the Treasury that there were discussions occurring with mister Orr,
and then they let me know that that final decision
to resign had been made.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Was there any discussion between you and Adrian or in
recent weeks about budgets, about you know, staff members, how
many staff they've got at the bank, about a potential
budget bid, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, there was. Every five years, the government needs to
negotiate a funding agreement with the Reserve Bank, and I'd
made clear that I was uncomfortable with just how much
taxpayers money had been going into the Reserve Bank. It's
a negotiation between me and the Reserve Bank Board what
those ultimate funding figures for the future are, and i'd
(02:13):
express my desire to see real value for money for taxpayers,
a focus on the core deliverables, and that I wasn't
convinced that that had been the case in recent years.
That's exactly what you'd expect from me, Ryan, which is
it's my job to protect the public purse and to
ensure key weis are getting good value. And that applies
at any government agency, including the Reserve Bank.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Their annual budget was about one hundred and forty million old,
isn't it. Were you wanting to bring that down further?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, the increase over the past five years had been
dramatic and had outpaced that of just about every other
government agency. And so the negotiation that we're having with
the Reserve Bank is what's actually the minimal viable product here?
How much funding do you need to do to deliver
your key statutory functions? Because they've got an important job.
(03:02):
You know, they've got to keep inflation under control, they've
got to manage that official cash rate, they've got to
ensure we've got financial stability. What would it take to
fund that without all of the added extras tacked on
as well?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Their staff numbers went from two hundred and fifty five
in twenty eighteen to six hundred and forty one in
twenty twenty four. Are you also wanting that to come down?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, you'd expect that if they're just focused on their
core functions, they wouldn't require those significant numbers of staff
that they've had in recent years. And to my point,
I'm interested in how many people do we need to
deliver on the really important functions, not all of the
other stuff tacked on as well. I mean, the Reserve Bank,
in my mind, should not be a gilded palace with
(03:48):
un tapped resources that just keep flowing. Actually, it should
be like any other government agency. It's got some restraint,
it's got some discipline, it's ensuring value for money. And
that's the approach that I've taken to the negotiation.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And clearly that's roughled a few feathers and they've flyn
the coup.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, Ultimately that negotiation occurs between me and the Reserve
Bank Board. The Reserve Bank Board will make their submission
on what they think is the appropriate level of funding
and the coming days and weeks, and then we negotiate
that and we hope to have it all sign up
and delivered before the budget.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This investment summit. Why is black Rock not going on?
Not on the guest list? What have you been told
about that?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I haven't actually been briefed on that. As you will
have seen there's a broad range of investors invited to
the summit, including some of the world's big infrastructure funds,
including New Zealand EE Investment funds. And there are also
infrastructure partners there, so people who deliver big infrastructure projects.
So there's a broad range of people and none of
(04:52):
this would preclude any entity in the future being involved
in investing. We just can't fit everyone in the room.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, but it's the big one, the big boy you
want in the room.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Well, it's one of the big boys. But there's plenty
of big boys and girls who will be in the room.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
The banks. Just coming back to the Reserve Bank very briefly,
the capital rules you're looking at potentially trying to compel
or override the Reserve Bank the way that it regulates banks.
Is that something you're seriously considering doing soon?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, Look, what this goes back to is in twenty nineteen,
the Reserve Bank made a decision to require banks to
hold more capital against their lending, and at the time,
banks and others warned that that could have a couple
of impacts for New Zealanders, one higher interest rates and
two that it could stop the amount of lending going
(05:42):
into productive businesses that we've had historically, therefore leading to
a negative impact on the size of our economy. So
both of those two things concern me, and I think
it's important that I now review. Okay, has that happened?
Is that happening? Are we taking the right approach here?
Because my focus is anything I can do to make
(06:05):
sure that New Zealanders have incomes that are rising faster
and interest rates that are lower, I'm pretty interested in doing.
So let's get all the advice here at least have
that discussion and not just take it as set in stone.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You spoke to the conference back in February, this is
the New Zealand Economics Forum conference, and you told them
that you were taking advice on options for achieving higher
KEIW saver balances. I mean, if you look at our numbers,
they're not great. I mean they are good. Are key
we saver balance is collectively now worth more than one
hundred billion dollars. That's great. We're turning eighteen I think
(06:38):
in a month or so. But you look at the
Australians and they're like four trillion, right, So we've got
to get our rates up, no doubt about that. Are
you considering as the government considering increasing the minimum contribution
up from three percent.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Look, we're considering a range of options for increasing New
Zealander's key we saver balances. The important thing to remember
is New Zealand has universal superannuation for every Kiwi from
age sixty five. The Aussies don't have that, So that's
the main contribution the government makes to superannuation in New
Zealand is funding that universal superannuation. We then have kei
(07:14):
we Saver and I think key we save is becoming
increasingly important for two reasons. One it's the main tool
that heaps the key we's used to save for their
house deposit. And two we know that more New Zealanders
are going to want more financial security and retirement because
not everyone will own their own home at retirement. So
key we sab becomes a really important supplement to universal
(07:35):
super So I am taking advice on what we can
do to encourage New Zealanders to save more in their
key we saver accounts as an addition to not instead
of universal New Zealand superannuation.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Does that mean yeah, I totally get that you're not
going to get rid of super universal super But does
that mean you're you're looking at sweetness like tax and
centers to get people to pay more, or would you
actually say put a line in the stand and say
we need to get your minimum to five percent over
this period of time or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Look, the main financial contribution that the government makes and
in my mind, should make to superannuation is that increasing
costs for New Zealand superannuation that's growing by literally billions
even over the next few years. So that's the core
way in which the government funds superannuation costs. But as
you allude, there are a range of other ways in
which we could help QE savers improve their balances, including
(08:30):
the rates of contributions and other things. So we're working
through that. I haven't taken advice to Cabinet yet, but
I think it's really important that more Kiwis have more
financial security in their retirement and I'm prepared to make
changes to deliver.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That, all right, and very quickly. There's are two things
we've spoken about before, but any update on the foreign
bias thing. I think last time you said it was
that leader to leader stage.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Do you know I've got to the point where if
there's change in this area. I think you should be
the first to know because you've asked me the most
questions about it, and your interest is very much appreciated. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So that didn't answer the question. They did it is
there an update or not.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't have an update for you today, but when
I've got an update, you're going to get it, my friend.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, thanks for your time, minister, really appreciate it. Nicola Willis,
who's the finance minister who says that Lackson's job is
safe till the next election sixteen after six markets next.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Right now. Nikola Willis is the Finance Minister, issues with me.
Good evening, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Evening, Ryan.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm very well, thank you. It's a beautiful sunny day
in Wellington, just gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Great to hear. Are you feeling is the six pm
news is beautiful and sunny? Or are you a bit
upset about those poll numbers?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I haven't seen the six pm news, but look, my
focus is never on a poll. It's always on how
can we deliver for New Zealanders? And New Zealanders are
letting us know loud and clear that they want us
focused on reducing their cost of living, growing this economy,
delivering better education and health services, and that is exactly
(00:39):
what we are focused on. So between now and the
election there'll be a lot of polls. My focus is
on delivery and there.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Is absolutely no appetite from anyone within your party or
from you to get rid of lux into Rollin before
the election. You're one hundred percent confident he's the right
guy for the election. That's right, Okay, all right, let's
move on Adrian or why wasn't he the right guy
for the job? What happened?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, as you know last week he made the decision
to resign from his role as Reserve Bank Governor. That's
a matter he engaged with the Reserve Bank Board on
which was subsequently announced, and I've wished him well for
the future.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Did you ever find out what was going on?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Look, the Board had informed me via the Secretary for
the Treasury that there were discussions occurring with mister Orr,
and then they let me know that that final decision
to resign had been made.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Was there any discussion between you and Adrian or in
recent weeks about budgets, about you know, staff members, how
many staff they've got at the bank, about a potential
budget bid, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, there was. Every five years, the government needs to
negotiate a funding agreement with the Reserve Bank, and I'd
made clear that I was uncomfortable with just how much
taxpayers money had been going into the Reserve Bank. It's
a negotiation between me and the Reserve Bank Board what
those ultimate funding figures for the future are, and i'd
(02:13):
express my desire to see real value for money for taxpayers,
a focus on the core deliverables, and that I wasn't
convinced that that had been the case in recent years.
That's exactly what you'd expect from me, Ryan, which is
it's my job to protect the public purse and to
ensure key weis are getting good value. And that applies
at any government agency, including the Reserve Bank.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Their annual budget was about one hundred and forty million old,
isn't it. Were you wanting to bring that down further?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, the increase over the past five years had been
dramatic and had outpaced that of just about every other
government agency. And so the negotiation that we're having with
the Reserve Bank is what's actually the minimal viable product here?
How much funding do you need to do to deliver
your key statutory functions? Because they've got an important job.
(03:02):
You know, they've got to keep inflation under control, they've
got to manage that official cash rate, they've got to
ensure we've got financial stability. What would it take to
fund that without all of the added extras tacked on
as well?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Their staff numbers went from two hundred and fifty five
in twenty eighteen to six hundred and forty one in
twenty twenty four. Are you also wanting that to come down?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, you'd expect that if they're just focused on their
core functions, they wouldn't require those significant numbers of staff
that they've had in recent years. And to my point,
I'm interested in how many people do we need to
deliver on the really important functions, not all of the
other stuff tacked on as well. I mean, the Reserve Bank,
in my mind, should not be a gilded palace with
(03:48):
un tapped resources that just keep flowing. Actually, it should
be like any other government agency. It's got some restraint,
it's got some discipline, it's ensuring value for money. And
that's the approach that I've taken to the negotiation.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And clearly that's roughled a few feathers and they've flyn
the coup.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, Ultimately that negotiation occurs between me and the Reserve
Bank Board. The Reserve Bank Board will make their submission
on what they think is the appropriate level of funding
and the coming days and weeks, and then we negotiate
that and we hope to have it all sign up
and delivered before the budget.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This investment summit. Why is black Rock not going on?
Not on the guest list? What have you been told
about that?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I haven't actually been briefed on that. As you will
have seen there's a broad range of investors invited to
the summit, including some of the world's big infrastructure funds,
including New Zealand EE Investment funds. And there are also
infrastructure partners there, so people who deliver big infrastructure projects.
So there's a broad range of people and none of
(04:52):
this would preclude any entity in the future being involved
in investing. We just can't fit everyone in the room.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, but it's the big one, the big boy you
want in the room.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Well, it's one of the big boys. But there's plenty
of big boys and girls who will be in the room.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
The banks. Just coming back to the Reserve Bank very briefly,
the capital rules you're looking at potentially trying to compel
or override the Reserve Bank the way that it regulates banks.
Is that something you're seriously considering doing soon?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, Look, what this goes back to is in twenty nineteen,
the Reserve Bank made a decision to require banks to
hold more capital against their lending, and at the time,
banks and others warned that that could have a couple
of impacts for New Zealanders, one higher interest rates and
two that it could stop the amount of lending going
(05:42):
into productive businesses that we've had historically, therefore leading to
a negative impact on the size of our economy. So
both of those two things concern me, and I think
it's important that I now review. Okay, has that happened?
Is that happening? Are we taking the right approach here?
Because my focus is anything I can do to make
(06:05):
sure that New Zealanders have incomes that are rising faster
and interest rates that are lower, I'm pretty interested in doing.
So let's get all the advice here at least have
that discussion and not just take it as set in stone.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You spoke to the conference back in February, this is
the New Zealand Economics Forum conference, and you told them
that you were taking advice on options for achieving higher
KEIW saver balances. I mean, if you look at our numbers,
they're not great. I mean they are good. Are key
we saver balance is collectively now worth more than one
hundred billion dollars. That's great. We're turning eighteen I think
(06:38):
in a month or so. But you look at the
Australians and they're like four trillion, right, So we've got
to get our rates up, no doubt about that. Are
you considering as the government considering increasing the minimum contribution
up from three percent.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Look, we're considering a range of options for increasing New
Zealander's key we saver balances. The important thing to remember
is New Zealand has universal superannuation for every Kiwi from
age sixty five. The Aussies don't have that, So that's
the main contribution the government makes to superannuation in New
Zealand is funding that universal superannuation. We then have kei
(07:14):
we Saver and I think key we save is becoming
increasingly important for two reasons. One it's the main tool
that heaps the key we's used to save for their
house deposit. And two we know that more New Zealanders
are going to want more financial security and retirement because
not everyone will own their own home at retirement. So
key we sab becomes a really important supplement to universal
(07:35):
super So I am taking advice on what we can
do to encourage New Zealanders to save more in their
key we saver accounts as an addition to not instead
of universal New Zealand superannuation.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Does that mean yeah, I totally get that you're not
going to get rid of super universal super But does
that mean you're you're looking at sweetness like tax and
centers to get people to pay more, or would you
actually say put a line in the stand and say
we need to get your minimum to five percent over
this period of time or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Look, the main financial contribution that the government makes and
in my mind, should make to superannuation is that increasing
costs for New Zealand superannuation that's growing by literally billions
even over the next few years. So that's the core
way in which the government funds superannuation costs. But as
you allude, there are a range of other ways in
which we could help QE savers improve their balances, including
(08:30):
the rates of contributions and other things. So we're working
through that. I haven't taken advice to Cabinet yet, but
I think it's really important that more Kiwis have more
financial security in their retirement and I'm prepared to make
changes to deliver.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That, all right, and very quickly. There's are two things
we've spoken about before, but any update on the foreign
bias thing. I think last time you said it was
that leader to leader stage.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Do you know I've got to the point where if
there's change in this area. I think you should be
the first to know because you've asked me the most
questions about it, and your interest is very much appreciated. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So that didn't answer the question. They did it is
there an update or not.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't have an update for you today, but when
I've got an update, you're going to get it, my friend.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay, thanks for your time, minister, really appreciate it. Nicola Willis,
who's the finance minister who says that Lackson's job is
safe till the next election sixteen after six markets next.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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