A former adviser to Donald Trump says Russia's president will use soviet spy tactics in negotiations with the US President.
Trump's expected to speak with Vladimir Putin tomorrow - to discuss ending hostilities in Ukraine.
He's hoping to get agreement on a 30-day ceasefire proposal accepted by Ukraine last week.
But John Bolton says Putin's dragged out talks to get the upper hand.
"He's counting on direct negotiations between himself and Trump to use his KGB manipulative skills on Trump to get even more concessions out of him."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tonight, Trump and Pusin are having a call this Ukraine
ceasefire thirty day seasfire broken by the US on the agenda.
Kiev has said yes. Russia hasn't responded yet. Ambassador John
Bolton was Donald Trump's national security advisor during his first term,
and we've got him on the line. Ambassador, Hello, Hi,
(00:20):
how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Good? Thank you? So do you think these talks
are going to be fruitful?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Well? I think that Putin has carefully manipulated the timing
here so that Russian forces are on the verge of
eliminating all presents of Ukraine troops and Kursk province inside Russia.
I think he's dragged out the negotiations so that he
(00:46):
now has a pretty clear idea what Trump may want,
and he's counting on direct negotiations between himself and Trump
to use his KGB manipulative skills on Trump to get
even more sessions out of him. Then Trump's already given Russia.
I mean, Trump has effectively flipped the US position from
(01:06):
being supportive of Ukraine to being supportive of Russia, and
Putin wants to see if he can get more.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Why has he done that? Some people say Oh, he's
just pro Russian. What's the reason for it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, I think Putin's always had an affinity for the
authoritarian figures. I can't explain it. Maybe we can let
the shrinks tell us what the reason for it is.
But you know, I don't buy the argument that somehow
he's become a Russian agent. I think, you know, Vladimir
Lenin once said that a lot of useful work was
done for the communists in the West by what he
(01:37):
called useful idiots, people who didn't even realize they were
helping the communists out.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Of that going on with with Trump and the Russians
and the Chinese and others. But I think Putin's skills
as a former KGB agent, unfortunately, will suit him very
well in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
How much of this is because from America's perspective, you
can't be at war with everyone all at once. You
can't be taking on China. You've got to separate China
away from Russia. Somehow, You've got to divide and conquer.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, I think splitting Russia away from China is a
fine idea, but in the current circumstances, it's just not
going to work out. They're not going to agree to
a ceasefire getting them part of what they want from Ukraine.
And basically they want all of Ukraine to put the
old Russian Empire back together and anyway in exchange for
(02:35):
a piece of Ukraine to split from China. Indeed, China
has strengthened its hold on Russia in this new China
Russia acxis that's been forming because of the war in Ukraine,
because they've helped Russia escape global financial sanctions by laundering
sanctioned Russian assets through the opaque Chinese financial system. They've
(02:57):
significantly increased their purchases of Russia oil and gas and
committed to expand pipeline capacity overland in the future. You know,
China has a real interest in becoming an Arctic power,
if you can believe that using the Northwest Passage that
now has opened because of global warming. I met with
(03:19):
the Russian several times as National security advisor and asked
them what they thought of back then when they were
growing closer to China. They said, no problem, We've got
this under control. We're not worried. You know, they were
wrong then and they're wrong now.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
John where does all of us leave NATO? I mean,
obviously Ukraine's not a NATO member, it would like to be.
That'll be part of these peace talks that are going
to happen. But does anyone think, you know, has NATO
been completely undermined by Donald Trump? I mean, would he
really send troops into Estonia if they were in trouble?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Does anyone really believe that anymore?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know, I'm seriously worried about the consequences for NATO
of a bad settlement for because Trump is not a
fan of NATO, that's to put it mildly. In twenty eighteen,
during the NATO summit in Brussels, he came within an
inch of withdrawing. Then I was right there sitting behind
him when he almost did it. He doesn't understand how
(04:15):
NATO works, or in fact, he doesn't understand how defense
alliances themselves work. And you know, his idea that will
only defend NATO countries that are spending two percent or
more of their GDP on defense makes the alliance look
like a checkerboard with some in, some out, and just
(04:37):
undermines the whole idea of collective defense.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I hope that the.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Damage to NATO doesn't turn out to be fatal, and
that Trump doesn't withdraw the United States, it would be
a catastrophic mistake. But he doesn't understand how it works.
He thinks we defend Europe, we get nothing out of it,
and Europe doesn't pay. That's not NATO at all. Do
benefit from NATO. We shouldn't be ashamed to say it.
(05:04):
We're stronger and the West is stronger as a whole
because of NATO. Donald Trump just doesn't get it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And weird does that leave us? You know? Weird? Does
that leave the rest of the world? John?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
The world order has been tipped on its head. Trump's
going after his allies, He's defending his enemies. When you're
a little country like New Zealand that loves the rules
based system and we've got our farm minus drop in Washington, DC.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
At the moment, what do we make of us?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, what I would say is, even though there are
forty six months left in Trump's presidency, which may seem
like a long time, grit your teeth and don't write
the United States off yet some in Europe are thinking
of doing it. I think collectively it's better to stand together.
We'll get through this, this is Trump's Trump didn't campaign
(05:50):
on destroying NATO or getting into a trade war with
our closest friends around the world. This is not where
the American people are and it may may take a
real setback somewhere before even Trump is pulled up short.
But we've got to be patient, think of the long term,
and hopefully muddle through without too much damage being done
(06:13):
until we get a president who understands how the system
should work and would be committed to make it work.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
All right, John, thanks for your time and your analysis.
That's Ambassador John Bolton, former national security advisor to Donald Trump.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Tonight, Trump and Pusin are having a call this Ukraine
ceasefire thirty day seasfire broken by the US on the agenda.
Kiev has said yes. Russia hasn't responded yet. Ambassador John
Bolton was Donald Trump's national security advisor during his first term,
and we've got him on the line. Ambassador, Hello, Hi,
(00:20):
how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Good? Thank you? So do you think these talks
are going to be fruitful?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Well? I think that Putin has carefully manipulated the timing
here so that Russian forces are on the verge of
eliminating all presents of Ukraine troops and Kursk province inside Russia.
I think he's dragged out the negotiations so that he
(00:46):
now has a pretty clear idea what Trump may want,
and he's counting on direct negotiations between himself and Trump
to use his KGB manipulative skills on Trump to get
even more sessions out of him. Then Trump's already given Russia.
I mean, Trump has effectively flipped the US position from
(01:06):
being supportive of Ukraine to being supportive of Russia, and
Putin wants to see if he can get more.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Why has he done that? Some people say Oh, he's
just pro Russian. What's the reason for it.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, I think Putin's always had an affinity for the
authoritarian figures. I can't explain it. Maybe we can let
the shrinks tell us what the reason for it is.
But you know, I don't buy the argument that somehow
he's become a Russian agent. I think, you know, Vladimir
Lenin once said that a lot of useful work was
done for the communists in the West by what he
(01:37):
called useful idiots, people who didn't even realize they were
helping the communists out.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Of that going on with with Trump and the Russians
and the Chinese and others. But I think Putin's skills
as a former KGB agent, unfortunately, will suit him very
well in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
How much of this is because from America's perspective, you
can't be at war with everyone all at once. You
can't be taking on China. You've got to separate China
away from Russia. Somehow, You've got to divide and conquer.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, I think splitting Russia away from China is a
fine idea, but in the current circumstances, it's just not
going to work out. They're not going to agree to
a ceasefire getting them part of what they want from Ukraine.
And basically they want all of Ukraine to put the
old Russian Empire back together and anyway in exchange for
(02:35):
a piece of Ukraine to split from China. Indeed, China
has strengthened its hold on Russia in this new China
Russia acxis that's been forming because of the war in Ukraine,
because they've helped Russia escape global financial sanctions by laundering
sanctioned Russian assets through the opaque Chinese financial system. They've
(02:57):
significantly increased their purchases of Russia oil and gas and
committed to expand pipeline capacity overland in the future. You know,
China has a real interest in becoming an Arctic power,
if you can believe that using the Northwest Passage that
now has opened because of global warming. I met with
(03:19):
the Russian several times as National security advisor and asked
them what they thought of back then when they were
growing closer to China. They said, no problem, We've got
this under control. We're not worried. You know, they were
wrong then and they're wrong now.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
John where does all of us leave NATO? I mean,
obviously Ukraine's not a NATO member, it would like to be.
That'll be part of these peace talks that are going
to happen. But does anyone think, you know, has NATO
been completely undermined by Donald Trump? I mean, would he
really send troops into Estonia if they were in trouble?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Does anyone really believe that anymore?
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You know, I'm seriously worried about the consequences for NATO
of a bad settlement for because Trump is not a
fan of NATO, that's to put it mildly. In twenty eighteen,
during the NATO summit in Brussels, he came within an
inch of withdrawing. Then I was right there sitting behind
him when he almost did it. He doesn't understand how
(04:15):
NATO works, or in fact, he doesn't understand how defense
alliances themselves work. And you know, his idea that will
only defend NATO countries that are spending two percent or
more of their GDP on defense makes the alliance look
like a checkerboard with some in, some out, and just
(04:37):
undermines the whole idea of collective defense.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I hope that the.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Damage to NATO doesn't turn out to be fatal, and
that Trump doesn't withdraw the United States, it would be
a catastrophic mistake. But he doesn't understand how it works.
He thinks we defend Europe, we get nothing out of it,
and Europe doesn't pay. That's not NATO at all. Do
benefit from NATO. We shouldn't be ashamed to say it.
(05:04):
We're stronger and the West is stronger as a whole
because of NATO. Donald Trump just doesn't get it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And weird does that leave us? You know? Weird? Does
that leave the rest of the world? John?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
The world order has been tipped on its head. Trump's
going after his allies, He's defending his enemies. When you're
a little country like New Zealand that loves the rules
based system and we've got our farm minus drop in Washington, DC.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
At the moment, what do we make of us?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well, what I would say is, even though there are
forty six months left in Trump's presidency, which may seem
like a long time, grit your teeth and don't write
the United States off yet some in Europe are thinking
of doing it. I think collectively it's better to stand together.
We'll get through this, this is Trump's Trump didn't campaign
(05:50):
on destroying NATO or getting into a trade war with
our closest friends around the world. This is not where
the American people are and it may may take a
real setback somewhere before even Trump is pulled up short.
But we've got to be patient, think of the long term,
and hopefully muddle through without too much damage being done
(06:13):
until we get a president who understands how the system
should work and would be committed to make it work.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
All right, John, thanks for your time and your analysis.
That's Ambassador John Bolton, former national security advisor to Donald Trump.
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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