The Government's keeping its cards close to its chest on how it'll fund a mammoth defence splurge.
It's injecting $12 billion over the next four years into building up our Defence Force workforce and equipment.
It's signalling it'll go into system upgrades, replacing helicopters - and enhancing maritime strike capability.
Defence Minister Judith Collins says the investment includes $9 billion on top of what we already spend on defence.
"It is a lot of money, but I also know this - there is no economic security without national security."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's all about defense tonight. Twelve billion dollars is going
(00:03):
to be invested. It's a record number from the government
invested into defense over the next four years, with a
plan to get spending to two percent of GDP over
the next eight years. It comes after China launched an
inta ballistic missile into the Pacific last year. We had
the three highly capable Chinese warships sailing off the coast
of Sydney a couple of months ago. The Defense Minister,
(00:23):
Judith Collins has announced issues with me. Now Minister, good evening. Well, hello, Ryan,
So break it down for us. What is the twelve
billion going largely going to be spent on or how
will it be split between CAPEX and op X and
over these four years.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, but the nine billion is basically extra money on
top of what defense normally gets now, and the three
billion is it's basically it's a form of depreciation that
defense has to be funded for and that it pays back,
and it's you know, it's I don't want to get
into the boring details of accounting, but basically it's a
(00:58):
heck of a load of money that defenses getting. So
we're going to have in the first four years, we've
got some really big stuff happening around replacing some of
our platforms and being able to actually get ourselves out there,
particularly with uncrude equipment. So a lot of people don't
realize we have a good and growing industry in this
(01:21):
country building equipment for uncrude equipment for other countries to use.
And what we need to make sure is that we're
getting a piece of that action as well and building
our capabilities on that. But the first things that we're
doing is around the enhanced maritime strike capability. I've just
talked about the uncrued surface surveillance as well, sorting out
(01:45):
and getting replacements for our maritime helicopters, upgrading our systems
to deal with drones coming in against us, but also
making sure that we have our mw ZEUM Defense Workforce
strategy right, and really looking after the bases more and
the people that live on them. So these are some
(02:05):
of the things that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, So helicopters will get drones, will we get submersible drones,
I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We already have one. We already have that, so basically
uncrewed submarines. So we've bought that and we'll probably get
some more of those. And when's the sort of thing
we can do.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And when you say when drones are coming here, we
need stuff to stop them, it's stuff to shoot them
out of the sky.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Something like that. So it's not just coming here, it's
our people on ships who are dealing with drones coming
at them too, So we've got to be able to
have that capability. Now we do actually have that tech
in the New Zealand. We have some fabulous industry players
here who at the moment are selling to offshore defense
forces and we need to be able to help them
(02:55):
to build their industry but also buy some New Zealand
for a change.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Buying New Zealand made okay, I mean, and it's great stuff. Yeah,
and this is all inside the next four years. What
about recruitment.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh and recruitment too, So obviously we've got the budget
still coming up, so issues around that are very important. So,
as you know, we had a real problem with people leaving,
particularly during the COVID years. That has now been stemmed.
So now this is defenses out there. They have people
lining up to join them and that's what we want.
(03:30):
So they take people who are physically very fit, mentally sound,
and who can be taught and will take orders. So
these are the sorts of people there after, and that's
what they'll be out recruiting as well.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Where's the money going to come from?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, it comes from the New Zealand taxpayer actually, and
that's why we need to make sure we do it
really carefully. So it is a lot of money. But
I also know this that there is no economic security
without new security and New Zealand paying at the moment
as we do about one point one percent of our
GDP on defense. We are so far behind like minded countries.
(04:10):
We need to get to two percent. We're doing that
under this plan within eight years, that's the plan, and
we will be back at a percentage of GDP for
spending for defense where we're in nineteen ninety two. We've
had thirty five years of just ripping the guts our
defense and it's got to stop.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
That is Money's going to have to come from somewhere, though,
isn't it? Is this a question?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
We've got Nick Willis on our six. We might need
that one for her. Somebody has somebody asked us, have
one of your counterparts asked you that we get to
two percent.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No, they don't need to ask us to do that.
It is. It is one of those levels of funding
that is understood is a minimum level that you need
to be to be able to do the basic things
of what a defense will should do. So, as you know,
we have a lot of disaster relief work that we
have to do in defense, but we also have things,
(05:04):
particularly in the Pacific and with a big maritime zone
around illegal and irregular fishing, particularly for our Pacific neighbors.
And also we have the transnational organized crime, particularly big
drug busts and things like that that our defense force
is involved in, working with police but also with other countries.
And then there's the other issue that we need to
(05:25):
have more lethality. We need to actually understand defense is
about defending and we do need to be able to
do that, and we all know about our wonderful special forces,
but actually we've got capability in other areas as well,
and they need to be backed up. We can't just
send people off and have nothing to pick them up
or do anything else. And I'd say this to people
and they say really foolish things like why do we
(05:47):
need to have ships and frigates. But when we're out
in the Tasman Sea and you've got people who are
on a kayak in the middle of the sea and
they need someone to go and save them, Well, who
do we ask we as defense we need somebody who
can have they cop to them out of there, getting
out of the water, or have a ship to put
them onto or something else. But what we can't do
is just leave them there and say, oh, well, that's
(06:09):
a bit of a shame. You know. It's defending us
from weather, from everything else and also from people who
want to take our resources.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
When you say we need more lethality, are we not
lethal enough as it is? No, clearly not.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
No, no, no no. So we we're not getting the
strike course back for the Air Force because simply we've
lost the entire capability thanks to Helen Clark and her
decision to get rid of it back in the when
she came to government. But what we do have is
we need some lethal components onto our a sidons. They
(06:42):
are submarine hunters and having hunted them, having got the
information off them, surveillance and everything else they do, they
do need to have some ability to fight back if
someone's going to come after them. So you know, this
is not tiddly winks. This is really serious things going
on in the world at the moment, and New Zealand
cannot stand back and say, oh, it's not really our problem.
(07:05):
It is absolutely our problem. And we have a specific
that we have an obligation to and we also have
an obligation to New Zealanders and to our one formal ally,
which is Australia.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Will the drones that we're getting be able to strike
or are they just surveillance.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well we've said that we're not doing any of this
AI AI generated strike capability on drones, and I think
that is absolutely right. But however, the way that we
drones are obviously used in Ukraine at the moment, and
you might find that some of those may have some
tech from New Zealand, so they do need to be
(07:42):
able to strike. But the point is you need somebody
taking responsibility for anything like that.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So we're saying that someone would be on the other
end pulling the trigger.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You can't. We're not that sort of nation that would
just say or well, send that to a software to do. No,
that's not what we do.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
No, Okay, interesting, Defense Minister doth coins really appreciate your time.
Thanks for coming on the show. For more from Hither
Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be
from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
It's all about defense tonight. Twelve billion dollars is going
(00:03):
to be invested. It's a record number from the government
invested into defense over the next four years, with a
plan to get spending to two percent of GDP over
the next eight years. It comes after China launched an
inta ballistic missile into the Pacific last year. We had
the three highly capable Chinese warships sailing off the coast
of Sydney a couple of months ago. The Defense Minister,
(00:23):
Judith Collins has announced issues with me. Now Minister, good evening. Well, hello, Ryan,
So break it down for us. What is the twelve
billion going largely going to be spent on or how
will it be split between CAPEX and op X and
over these four years.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, but the nine billion is basically extra money on
top of what defense normally gets now, and the three
billion is it's basically it's a form of depreciation that
defense has to be funded for and that it pays back,
and it's you know, it's I don't want to get
into the boring details of accounting, but basically it's a
(00:58):
heck of a load of money that defenses getting. So
we're going to have in the first four years, we've
got some really big stuff happening around replacing some of
our platforms and being able to actually get ourselves out there,
particularly with uncrude equipment. So a lot of people don't
realize we have a good and growing industry in this
(01:21):
country building equipment for uncrude equipment for other countries to use.
And what we need to make sure is that we're
getting a piece of that action as well and building
our capabilities on that. But the first things that we're
doing is around the enhanced maritime strike capability. I've just
talked about the uncrued surface surveillance as well, sorting out
(01:45):
and getting replacements for our maritime helicopters, upgrading our systems
to deal with drones coming in against us, but also
making sure that we have our mw ZEUM Defense Workforce
strategy right, and really looking after the bases more and
the people that live on them. So these are some
(02:05):
of the things that we're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, So helicopters will get drones, will we get submersible drones,
I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We already have one. We already have that, so basically
uncrewed submarines. So we've bought that and we'll probably get
some more of those. And when's the sort of thing
we can do.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And when you say when drones are coming here, we
need stuff to stop them, it's stuff to shoot them
out of the sky.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Something like that. So it's not just coming here, it's
our people on ships who are dealing with drones coming
at them too, So we've got to be able to
have that capability. Now we do actually have that tech
in the New Zealand. We have some fabulous industry players
here who at the moment are selling to offshore defense
forces and we need to be able to help them
(02:55):
to build their industry but also buy some New Zealand
for a change.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Buying New Zealand made okay, I mean, and it's great stuff. Yeah,
and this is all inside the next four years. What
about recruitment.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh and recruitment too, So obviously we've got the budget
still coming up, so issues around that are very important. So,
as you know, we had a real problem with people leaving,
particularly during the COVID years. That has now been stemmed.
So now this is defenses out there. They have people
lining up to join them and that's what we want.
(03:30):
So they take people who are physically very fit, mentally sound,
and who can be taught and will take orders. So
these are the sorts of people there after, and that's
what they'll be out recruiting as well.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Where's the money going to come from?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, it comes from the New Zealand taxpayer actually, and
that's why we need to make sure we do it
really carefully. So it is a lot of money. But
I also know this that there is no economic security
without new security and New Zealand paying at the moment
as we do about one point one percent of our
GDP on defense. We are so far behind like minded countries.
(04:10):
We need to get to two percent. We're doing that
under this plan within eight years, that's the plan, and
we will be back at a percentage of GDP for
spending for defense where we're in nineteen ninety two. We've
had thirty five years of just ripping the guts our
defense and it's got to stop.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
That is Money's going to have to come from somewhere, though,
isn't it? Is this a question?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It does?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
We've got Nick Willis on our six. We might need
that one for her. Somebody has somebody asked us, have
one of your counterparts asked you that we get to
two percent.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No, they don't need to ask us to do that.
It is. It is one of those levels of funding
that is understood is a minimum level that you need
to be to be able to do the basic things
of what a defense will should do. So, as you know,
we have a lot of disaster relief work that we
have to do in defense, but we also have things,
(05:04):
particularly in the Pacific and with a big maritime zone
around illegal and irregular fishing, particularly for our Pacific neighbors.
And also we have the transnational organized crime, particularly big
drug busts and things like that that our defense force
is involved in, working with police but also with other countries.
And then there's the other issue that we need to
(05:25):
have more lethality. We need to actually understand defense is
about defending and we do need to be able to
do that, and we all know about our wonderful special forces,
but actually we've got capability in other areas as well,
and they need to be backed up. We can't just
send people off and have nothing to pick them up
or do anything else. And I'd say this to people
and they say really foolish things like why do we
(05:47):
need to have ships and frigates. But when we're out
in the Tasman Sea and you've got people who are
on a kayak in the middle of the sea and
they need someone to go and save them, Well, who
do we ask we as defense we need somebody who
can have they cop to them out of there, getting
out of the water, or have a ship to put
them onto or something else. But what we can't do
is just leave them there and say, oh, well, that's
(06:09):
a bit of a shame. You know. It's defending us
from weather, from everything else and also from people who
want to take our resources.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
When you say we need more lethality, are we not
lethal enough as it is? No, clearly not.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
No, no, no no. So we we're not getting the
strike course back for the Air Force because simply we've
lost the entire capability thanks to Helen Clark and her
decision to get rid of it back in the when
she came to government. But what we do have is
we need some lethal components onto our a sidons. They
(06:42):
are submarine hunters and having hunted them, having got the
information off them, surveillance and everything else they do, they
do need to have some ability to fight back if
someone's going to come after them. So you know, this
is not tiddly winks. This is really serious things going
on in the world at the moment, and New Zealand
cannot stand back and say, oh, it's not really our problem.
(07:05):
It is absolutely our problem. And we have a specific
that we have an obligation to and we also have
an obligation to New Zealanders and to our one formal ally,
which is Australia.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Will the drones that we're getting be able to strike
or are they just surveillance.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well we've said that we're not doing any of this
AI AI generated strike capability on drones, and I think
that is absolutely right. But however, the way that we
drones are obviously used in Ukraine at the moment, and
you might find that some of those may have some
tech from New Zealand, so they do need to be
(07:42):
able to strike. But the point is you need somebody
taking responsibility for anything like that.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So we're saying that someone would be on the other
end pulling the trigger.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You can't. We're not that sort of nation that would
just say or well, send that to a software to do. No,
that's not what we do.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
No, Okay, interesting, Defense Minister doth coins really appreciate your time.
Thanks for coming on the show. For more from Hither
Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be
from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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