Ruth Money: victims' advocate says authorities should investigate the finances of offenders who refuse to pay reparations

A victims' advocate wants authorities to investigate the finances of offenders refusing to pay reparations. 

Ministry of Justice data shows more than 10-and-a-half thousand payments are overdue - out of the 24,000 ordered by courts.

More than $105 million is owed across the country. 

Chief Government Victims Advisor Ruth Money says she isn't seeing much due diligence.

She says some will claim they can't pay, while also owning a new car or a house.

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now. We've got a problem with court ordered reparation payments.
This is the problem is that people aren't paying them.
They're like fines, but they're paid to victims rather than
the state. Half the amount owed is now overdue. The
Justice Minister, Paul Goldsmith is open to suggestions on how
to change that.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'll be interested in your listeners if they could come
up with I think we've got to come up.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
With something that's irritating and difficult and annoying, which forces
people to actually get on with it and pay the fine.
Ruth Money is the government's chief Victims of advisor with
me this afternoon. High Ruth, Hi Ryan, how are you.
I'm good? Thank you so your idea here is an
interesting one and I quite like it. Although how much
it costs I guess we'll get to. But what is

(00:39):
the gist of your idea. It's getting the government to
pay up front.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Here, we shouldn't be tying victim's outcomes to their offender
and whether the offender has got resources to pay it
or not. The victim was victimized, the victim was harmed.
Therefore the reparation has been ordered and therefore the state
should pay the proposal would be the state pays the
victim and then the state chases the offender for that payment,

(01:07):
as opposed to the victim waiting for a non payment
or maybe seeing Ministry of Justice two dollars every two
weeks for example, which just retraumatizes and drags out the
memory for the victim who's trying to move on.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
What's the average amount owed Groth?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, I don't have the data in front of me. However,
when I got the OIA the ENZME had done, it
looks like the average per person is about four thousand
dollars on the figures, but again that is really depending
on For example, there's some really high averages dragging that
up in for example the Auckland High Court, where I

(01:48):
think a lot of those reparation orders are perhaps business
based things as opposed to criminal activity. I would be
really interested to know. At the end of the day,
you know it's material, you owe the money and you
should be paying it.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
So the problem is they're not paying it and the
victims are going without. Your suggestion is the government pays
up front, victims settled, and then government chases are perpetrated
or chases whoever owes the money, so that's obviously going
to be expensive. Would you support would you care whether
it's taken out of their benefit or taken out of

(02:26):
their wages. I mean, you wouldn't mind how the money
is collected.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I don't mind how the money is collected because I
think the count effectual to it not being collected is
that the victims are going without. So at the moment,
victims don't get as you and I have talked about
for years, they don't get many entitlements. You know, for
often victims are paying for therapy open or above what
the state allows for. There is a loss of income

(02:54):
that comes with being a victim, so entitlements when you
are victimized, the state doesn't and this is always a
shock to victim's The state doesn't help you with your
lost income et cetera, et cetera, to the level of
what you genuinely lose. So the reparation there, you know,
is ordered to assist with that. So it needs to

(03:15):
be paid because it's either the offender who is missing
out all the victim.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Do you know what people will say, not not people,
but those the advocates for the other side of the coin,
Those are the offenders I say, well, you will further
impoverish them. You know, if you start docking people's wages,
then this happens, et cetera. I mean, I mean, this
will be the argument from the other side.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, and I don't disagree with some of that. However,
there needs to be accountability for your actions. You can't
just go around harming people and it not. You know,
you're not being held to account and you're not being
given a punishment. Otherwise you're just going to continue in
this cycle. What I would also say, though, is that
in my experience, and I am going to ask the

(03:55):
Ministry of Justice chase this up there, I don't see
a lot of judailgence going into collection of reparation. So
in my experience I have sat and helped victims where
reparation has been ordered. We know that the person might
have a house or a new car, for example, and
yet the piece of paper that's gone into the ministry

(04:15):
to say, oh no, I can't pay that reparation is false.
So what is the due diligence going on to verify
someone's ability to pay or not? So let's not jump,
you know, right, you know, throwing the baby out with
the bath order at this point in time, Let's look
at our processes. Is there something that we can do
to upweight resource around collection of said debt?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Get it from the first place, Ruth, Appreciate your time.
Ruth Money, Government's Chief Victims Advisor. For more from Heather
Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd be
from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.