April 14, 2025 • 9 mins
The Finance Minister says the Government is still looking to alleviate the impact of the US' tariffs on New Zealand.
New Zealand's current rate is at 10 percent - in line with a majority of other countries.
Nicola Willis says officials are determined to engage with their American counterparts to work out a solution.
"We're pointing out that our tariff regime is very limited towards the US...we have very few non-trade barriers and as far as possible - we'd like to grow the trade between our two countries, so we'd prefer no tariff."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
With us as Nikolaulus, the Finance Minister Nikolalo.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello and welcome back, Heather back on your show.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Lovely to be back and lovely to be chatting to you.
I want to know, by the way, seeing this is
obviously the thing that everybody's talking about. Where are we
at with these tariffs from Trump? Are we getting FaceTime
with the White House on this?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, our officials are continuing to engage with their counterparts
in the US. Of course, all countries now face the
same based tariff of ten percent, which is what New
Zealand's facing, And we're continuing to press the case for
our exporters, which is we'd prefer we weren't facing that.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So are we asking them to drop the tariff all together?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, we're pointing out that our tariff regime is very
limited towards the US, less than two percent, that we
have very few non trade barriers, and that as far
as possible, we'd like to grow the trade between our
two countries, so we'd prefer no tariff.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And are we getting any headway with us?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I think there's quite a queue of people having
a chat Heather, So we are one of literally dozens
of countries around the world are probably pressing a similar case,
and I think it's too soon to say where all
of this will land, so cool heads need to prevail.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Are they actually taking our phone calls?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, yes they are, because the Prime Minister and the
Foreign Minister and other ministers have established relationships with their
counterparts around the world and they're speaking with them about
how they're saying seeing the tariff for regime unfold and
what it means. And in the US we have relationships
at officials level which continue to function no matter what's happening.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So how far up, Like, who's the most senior person
who's taken a phone call since these tariffs were announced?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I couldn't answer that, but I do know that now.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Just getting the receptionist, Are we.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, I don't think so. We've got obviously an entire
embassy in Washington with senior people who speak to their
senior counterparts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Marco Rubio taking a phone call from Winston.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't think they've had a discussion as yet.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So what is Winston told you? Has he told you
that he's got anybody seeing here on the phone?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Winston has told me that he is continuing to engage
via our diplomats and that that's the appropriate way to
do it right now.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, okay, So it's not sounding all that hopeful on
that front. Then do you think, based on the fact
that Trump announced these exemptions for smartphones and laptops today,
are you taking any heart from that? Does it look
to you like he's going to cave?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, it looks to me that there's quite a lot
of water to flow under the bridge yet. And what
President Trump has said is that he's only put a
ninety day pause on the other higher tariffs, that he
is continuing to observe the way that different countries are
retaliating with tariffs, and that all of that is being
(02:44):
taken into account. So I don't have a crystal ball
about where this will all land. I think anyone who
claims that they know exactly where it's all landing is
probably fibbing, because ultimately, the US administration is making decisions
in real time, decisions that we don't know the results of.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You what is Winston so worried about read what the
prime ministers said publicly, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think that they're actually saying very similar things, which
is this is a time for pragmatic dialogue. Between countries.
No one benefits when we get into tit for tat
retaliation wars that it's actually hugely beneficial to the world
as a whole and to individual countries to have free
trade flowing between borders.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and that people should be talking points. But Winston
did say that he was hoping that the Prime Minister
would take his check his messages and take his phone
calls next time before he sees anything. That's a bit
of an admonishment. What's he so worried about.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I think that he just wants to be talking
with the Prime Minister regularly at a time where clearly
trade in the world is influx. Come on, that will
be the case.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
He wouldn't want it. He wouldn't have wanted those messages
checked unless he had something to say. What is he
worried about? I mean, did theist say something that he's
freaked him out.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I think you'd have to ask Winston. But what I
can tell you is that he and the Prime mini
is to have a very strong relationship and they're very
aligned in the fact that New Zealand benefits from the
free trade settings that we've pursued over multiple governments and
that we will continue to pursue Nikola.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Why are we really dropping that final test for the
full license.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Because it just adds cost and pain for people and
doesn't make anyone safer. You already have to do a
practical test when you sit you're restricted, having to do
it again for the final test. Actually, there's pretty good
evidence that it stops some people ever getting their full
driver's license because they get there restricted, they're free to
be on the road and they think are doing the
(04:37):
next ones are pain and actually, we want people to
have their full driver's license. We want people to not
face problems with the police when they're stopped because they
don't have the full license. So we want to make
that achievable. And the practical test for the restricted ticks
the right box.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Right, so we see it as an obstacle, like this
is legitimate. You guys said, as legitimately an obstacle to
people getting their full and so if you take it away,
people will walk squ we're up with the law.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Basically, yeah, they're more likely too, and it just reduces
another cost. It's quite stressful sitting that test. It comes
with a cost. It's something you have to book in.
And if we've already done it at the restricted stage,
then why repeat it in general? If we can reduce
the cost of living for people, if we can make
things easier, we want to.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Now, are you guys considering doing a U turn on
those infant formula rules?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well no, so just a remind you of the situation. Essentially,
the New Zealand Australia Standard on labeling provisions would have
restricted how some of our infant formula companies were able
to market their products. Since then we said, well, if
we can't work this through, we'll withdraw. I understand that
there have now been discussions about how we could align
(05:45):
our interests. We want to stay in the joint food
system with Australia that has very good benefits. So this
is just a small issue relating to labeling. So if
that can be resolved and then we can stay in
the New Zealand standard, that's what we want to do.
And I understand that the Minister has been advancing discussions
on that basis. He hasn't brought recommendations to Cabinet yet,
(06:05):
so I wouldn't want to get ahead of him. But
if we can resolve the labeling issue and stay in
the standard, that's ideal.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So are we asking them Okay, we sign up to
the standard, but they have to change the labeling rules
to suit us. Is that essentially what we're wanting to.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, it may but yeah, it may be that we
stay in the standard, but then we allow for some
slightly different labeling for some of our products without having
any food safety issues.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And we don't start pulling infant formula special infant formula
off shelves and giving it to pharmacies to sell and
all that kind of nonsense.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, what we want to avoid is anything that restricts
the ability of our food infant formula providers to be
able to market their products effectively. So that's those are
the issues that we've been working through.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Nicola. Do you think that these rules about requiring the
public servants to use wool are really a good idea?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, I do, because wool is a great product. It's
been underrated, undervalued, has lots of uses and buying to
the public agencies. Hey, look, consider wall when you're doing
your procurement. It has really good sustainability benefits. It's actually
much better value for money than any of you think,
and it has good whole of life costs By giving
(07:13):
agencies that nudge, We're pretty sure some very good bids
will come forward for woolen products and buildings that will
stack up on their own merits. So that creates value
for the New Zealand economy as a whole, and it
creates great products and goals.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So it's not going to it's going to work out
at the same price as a synthetic carpet.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, you have to take into account a number of factors.
Whole of life cost, you have to take into account,
the sustainability, you have to take into account, the health outcomes.
And we're asking our government agencies when they're doing procurement
not just to write off will write from the start,
but to consider all of those factors when they're putting
together their procurement.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Isn't it I mean it feels like the kind of
dumb rules that Muldoon would have issued in order to
proper in an industry.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, no, because will is a great product and it's
come a long way. It can now be used not
just for carpet, but for insulation, for acoustic panics. But
story well not always not when you take into account
the value that you're creating. And this is a principle
that I want in our procurement rules more generally, which
is we shouldn't just be saying that one's twenty cents
(08:24):
more expensive per meter than that one. We should be saying,
what's the value we get as a country from spending
millions of dollars on this contract? And the truth is
when it's creating a industry, when it's supporting an industry
on the margin, that can create greater value for New Zealand.
Of course we should take that into account.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Did you buy Winston a present?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What did you buy him?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well? I respect that he's a private person, and so
the gift that I've bought him, I will leave it
to him. Whiskey he would wish to reveal it. It
was not. I was a little more cree. Eight of
the next links. I paid tribute to his love of
rail and a form which I will lead him to
discuss should he wish to.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Okay, but you just okay, so it's got it's rail related.
Just a final question, was it a toy set or
was it a ticket on?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It was neither of those things. Series No, well those
were not Those were not a gift, because of course
they're funded by the New Zealand text path. So not
on my gift to give Nicola.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Thank you very much for your time, lovely to shat you.
That's Nicola Willis, the Finance Minister a trains. I would
have gone straight for a single malt, wouldn't you know?
That's just the simplest thing and you know bring him
a lot of joy. But you also know gone in
one night. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
With us as Nikolaulus, the Finance Minister Nikolalo.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello and welcome back, Heather back on your show.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Lovely to be back and lovely to be chatting to you.
I want to know, by the way, seeing this is
obviously the thing that everybody's talking about. Where are we
at with these tariffs from Trump? Are we getting FaceTime
with the White House on this?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, our officials are continuing to engage with their counterparts
in the US. Of course, all countries now face the
same based tariff of ten percent, which is what New
Zealand's facing, And we're continuing to press the case for
our exporters, which is we'd prefer we weren't facing that.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So are we asking them to drop the tariff all together?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, we're pointing out that our tariff regime is very
limited towards the US, less than two percent, that we
have very few non trade barriers, and that as far
as possible, we'd like to grow the trade between our
two countries, so we'd prefer no tariff.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
And are we getting any headway with us?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I think there's quite a queue of people having
a chat Heather, So we are one of literally dozens
of countries around the world are probably pressing a similar case,
and I think it's too soon to say where all
of this will land, so cool heads need to prevail.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Are they actually taking our phone calls?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, yes they are, because the Prime Minister and the
Foreign Minister and other ministers have established relationships with their
counterparts around the world and they're speaking with them about
how they're saying seeing the tariff for regime unfold and
what it means. And in the US we have relationships
at officials level which continue to function no matter what's happening.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So how far up, Like, who's the most senior person
who's taken a phone call since these tariffs were announced?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I couldn't answer that, but I do know that now.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Just getting the receptionist, Are we.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, I don't think so. We've got obviously an entire
embassy in Washington with senior people who speak to their
senior counterparts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Marco Rubio taking a phone call from Winston.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't think they've had a discussion as yet.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So what is Winston told you? Has he told you
that he's got anybody seeing here on the phone?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Winston has told me that he is continuing to engage
via our diplomats and that that's the appropriate way to
do it right now.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, okay, So it's not sounding all that hopeful on
that front. Then do you think, based on the fact
that Trump announced these exemptions for smartphones and laptops today,
are you taking any heart from that? Does it look
to you like he's going to cave?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, it looks to me that there's quite a lot
of water to flow under the bridge yet. And what
President Trump has said is that he's only put a
ninety day pause on the other higher tariffs, that he
is continuing to observe the way that different countries are
retaliating with tariffs, and that all of that is being
(02:44):
taken into account. So I don't have a crystal ball
about where this will all land. I think anyone who
claims that they know exactly where it's all landing is
probably fibbing, because ultimately, the US administration is making decisions
in real time, decisions that we don't know the results of.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
You what is Winston so worried about read what the
prime ministers said publicly, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think that they're actually saying very similar things, which
is this is a time for pragmatic dialogue. Between countries.
No one benefits when we get into tit for tat
retaliation wars that it's actually hugely beneficial to the world
as a whole and to individual countries to have free
trade flowing between borders.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and that people should be talking points. But Winston
did say that he was hoping that the Prime Minister
would take his check his messages and take his phone
calls next time before he sees anything. That's a bit
of an admonishment. What's he so worried about.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I think that he just wants to be talking
with the Prime Minister regularly at a time where clearly
trade in the world is influx. Come on, that will
be the case.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
He wouldn't want it. He wouldn't have wanted those messages
checked unless he had something to say. What is he
worried about? I mean, did theist say something that he's
freaked him out.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I think you'd have to ask Winston. But what I
can tell you is that he and the Prime mini
is to have a very strong relationship and they're very
aligned in the fact that New Zealand benefits from the
free trade settings that we've pursued over multiple governments and
that we will continue to pursue Nikola.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Why are we really dropping that final test for the
full license.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Because it just adds cost and pain for people and
doesn't make anyone safer. You already have to do a
practical test when you sit you're restricted, having to do
it again for the final test. Actually, there's pretty good
evidence that it stops some people ever getting their full
driver's license because they get there restricted, they're free to
be on the road and they think are doing the
(04:37):
next ones are pain and actually, we want people to
have their full driver's license. We want people to not
face problems with the police when they're stopped because they
don't have the full license. So we want to make
that achievable. And the practical test for the restricted ticks
the right box.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Right, so we see it as an obstacle, like this
is legitimate. You guys said, as legitimately an obstacle to
people getting their full and so if you take it away,
people will walk squ we're up with the law.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Basically, yeah, they're more likely too, and it just reduces
another cost. It's quite stressful sitting that test. It comes
with a cost. It's something you have to book in.
And if we've already done it at the restricted stage,
then why repeat it in general? If we can reduce
the cost of living for people, if we can make
things easier, we want to.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Now, are you guys considering doing a U turn on
those infant formula rules?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well no, so just a remind you of the situation. Essentially,
the New Zealand Australia Standard on labeling provisions would have
restricted how some of our infant formula companies were able
to market their products. Since then we said, well, if
we can't work this through, we'll withdraw. I understand that
there have now been discussions about how we could align
(05:45):
our interests. We want to stay in the joint food
system with Australia that has very good benefits. So this
is just a small issue relating to labeling. So if
that can be resolved and then we can stay in
the New Zealand standard, that's what we want to do.
And I understand that the Minister has been advancing discussions
on that basis. He hasn't brought recommendations to Cabinet yet,
(06:05):
so I wouldn't want to get ahead of him. But
if we can resolve the labeling issue and stay in
the standard, that's ideal.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So are we asking them Okay, we sign up to
the standard, but they have to change the labeling rules
to suit us. Is that essentially what we're wanting to.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, it may but yeah, it may be that we
stay in the standard, but then we allow for some
slightly different labeling for some of our products without having
any food safety issues.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And we don't start pulling infant formula special infant formula
off shelves and giving it to pharmacies to sell and
all that kind of nonsense.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, what we want to avoid is anything that restricts
the ability of our food infant formula providers to be
able to market their products effectively. So that's those are
the issues that we've been working through.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Nicola. Do you think that these rules about requiring the
public servants to use wool are really a good idea?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, I do, because wool is a great product. It's
been underrated, undervalued, has lots of uses and buying to
the public agencies. Hey, look, consider wall when you're doing
your procurement. It has really good sustainability benefits. It's actually
much better value for money than any of you think,
and it has good whole of life costs By giving
(07:13):
agencies that nudge, We're pretty sure some very good bids
will come forward for woolen products and buildings that will
stack up on their own merits. So that creates value
for the New Zealand economy as a whole, and it
creates great products and goals.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So it's not going to it's going to work out
at the same price as a synthetic carpet.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, you have to take into account a number of factors.
Whole of life cost, you have to take into account,
the sustainability, you have to take into account, the health outcomes.
And we're asking our government agencies when they're doing procurement
not just to write off will write from the start,
but to consider all of those factors when they're putting
together their procurement.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Isn't it I mean it feels like the kind of
dumb rules that Muldoon would have issued in order to
proper in an industry.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, no, because will is a great product and it's
come a long way. It can now be used not
just for carpet, but for insulation, for acoustic panics. But
story well not always not when you take into account
the value that you're creating. And this is a principle
that I want in our procurement rules more generally, which
is we shouldn't just be saying that one's twenty cents
(08:24):
more expensive per meter than that one. We should be saying,
what's the value we get as a country from spending
millions of dollars on this contract? And the truth is
when it's creating a industry, when it's supporting an industry
on the margin, that can create greater value for New Zealand.
Of course we should take that into account.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Did you buy Winston a present?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What did you buy him?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well? I respect that he's a private person, and so
the gift that I've bought him, I will leave it
to him. Whiskey he would wish to reveal it. It
was not. I was a little more cree. Eight of
the next links. I paid tribute to his love of
rail and a form which I will lead him to
discuss should he wish to.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Okay, but you just okay, so it's got it's rail related.
Just a final question, was it a toy set or
was it a ticket on?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It was neither of those things. Series No, well those
were not Those were not a gift, because of course
they're funded by the New Zealand text path. So not
on my gift to give Nicola.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Thank you very much for your time, lovely to shat you.
That's Nicola Willis, the Finance Minister a trains. I would
have gone straight for a single malt, wouldn't you know?
That's just the simplest thing and you know bring him
a lot of joy. But you also know gone in
one night. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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