April 17, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Auckland Councillor Maurice Williamson and Craig Renney from the CTU joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Labour is talking up the potential of a snap election, saying 'we are ready'. Do we think there's a chance Winston Peters is going to blow it all up - or is Labour just stirring?
Do we think Simeon Brown is being too hard on the senior doctors - given how badly we need them in this country?
New Zealanders’ concerns about the impact of climate change has declined to 69 percent from 76 percent in 2022 and 80 percent in 2023. Why do we care less?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the huddle this evening got Morris Williams and Auckland
councilor obviously former National Party member and Craig Ready of
the c to you chief economists there.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, let's hi Treva. Sorry, that good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hold on, did you just call me triva?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I did correct myself. I corrected my I was just
picking up the phone because I hadn't had it up
my ear.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Is it because it rhymes with hither or.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It probably was. I did not think of you in
any way as a Triva.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
We're going to write that one on the list of.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Names and you can probably get the chromosome tests prove it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Do you know what today I'll identify as triva for
the for the Craig. Craig, you you're bracing yourself for
a snap election.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You're getting ready?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Oh, I'm not. I'm not putting much faith in there
being a snap election.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Obviously.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I think everybody, you know, all political parties will want
to be ready. But I think a lot of that
is sort of very loose talk. Governments tend to stick
together much more than they tend to fall apart, So
I'm not I don't think it's likely that to happen
to me.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You know you want to give you mate Kieran at
the Labor Party call and tell him to settle down.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I think he's just pointing out that the party is
ready for an election if there is going to be one.
I think if Winston Peters wants to call an election
and you make this a one term government, then fantastic.
But in terms of you know whether or not there
will be an election, I really don't think so.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't think so, Morris. Why are they doing this?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean, why on earth are the likes of the
Labor Party in New Zealand first as well talking this
kind of nonsense up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, it's ridiculous. I mean that there's two points that
need to be made. First of all, they've got a
lot of penance to do before they can come back
into the political landscape and not be embarrassed about the
money they spent and the little they got for it
in the economics times they've put us through and everyone
knows what happened with six years of Grant Robinson's way
over spending, way under delivering and so on. So it'll
(01:48):
take a while for Labor to come back from the
wilderness it always does. It happened to us when we
got sent to the wilderness. It's very unlikely to ever
come back after one term. But the second problem they've got,
and it's serious. I don't know how they'll ever go
to an election campaign when the only people they can
rely on to get them back into government are the
other than whack jobs Greens and even bigger whack jobs
to party Mari.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Actually, that's a fair point that you make, Marris.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Have you been following this business that's party Marty saying
that they want to have Mary get to pinch in
ten years earlier.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, there's a good question there. What's Mari. Well, if
you are like if you are like David Seymour, and
you're one thirty second or one sixty fourth, you take
once do you take one sixty fourth of ten years
and you get it only three months early, and so
that a full Mariy gets the whole ten years and
a half gets five years. Then it gets really crazy
because you can be a mari if you identify as one,
(02:38):
are you going to give that person some special dealage?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
It's your self in trouble if you talk like this, Morris.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm sorry, but no it's a question that would have
to be fronted if you were going to do that policy.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But what is Yeah, but what what about the politics
of the situation? Right, Because we talked about this yesterday,
here's Labour sort of entertaining the idea briefly and then
shooting it down today. Second that don't you just need
to if you'll Labor go into the default position of
gently shooting down everything that comes out of those people's brains.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Anything that comes out of there in that scope, you
just say this is just nuts, just simply nuts, because
the public wouldn't have a bar of it. You would
have absolute political rights. But I'm really hot to trot
on that point about what is a maori? There are
some people that maybe fifty percent. I'm told there is
no pure mari anymore. But there are people who have
got one sixty fourth in their ancestry back five grandparents ago.
(03:29):
Do they get the whole lot or do they get
one sixty fourth?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I still identify it Scottish and I don't know how
diluted it is.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So you know, I want to claim from the Highlands, then.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Hey, tell me something.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Craig Rea Sam and Brown, do you think he's going
a little bit hard on the senior doctors.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
This is the retrick a little high.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I think he needs to turn the temperature down enormously
on this, you know, sort of. There's a reason why
doctors are on strike. There's you know that there's there's
more than a thousand doctors short, senior doctors short across
the country. He's complaining about four thousand appointments being lost.
We lose more than that a week as a consequence
of not having the number of doctors that we need
(04:11):
in the country. You know, they're looking for they're looking
to just make sure their pay catches up with junior doctors,
because if you make the decision to become a senior
doctor right now, you'll actually lose money going from it,
going from being a junior doctor to a senior doctor,
because they've lost that progressivity. So, you know, really we
need to be looking at the three hundred and eighty
(04:33):
million dollars we're spending on locoms and temporary doctors right
now if we want, you know, if we want to
make savings in the health service, and we need to
make more than a billion dollars of savings in the
health service.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
According to TIFATA, Aura.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So I think if he wants to get to the solution,
if he wants junior doctors, I say, senior doctors to
come to the table. You know that that involves a
respectful conversation.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
In the trade in treatment we talk about good faith,
and he's not really demonstrating good faith right now with
the words that he's using.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It will come as no surprise that I think the
complete opposite of that. I think his job is to
get out some absolute facts. For example, last year they
got an eight percent rise. They're now asking for a
twelve percent rise. Hands up those across New Zealand who
thinks twelve percents are realistic?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Rise that Morris Morris Morris. Then then let's talk about
some absolute facts. He said, the average pay of a
doctor is three hundred and fifty thousand. The top of
scale for a senior doctor is two hundred and seventy thousand.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
Okay, so let's go through what he actually did. What
was the total package? No, no, sorry, can't get away
with that, Craig. He said, the total package when you
add all the elements together. So this is overtime, So
there's a whole lot of elements for the paage.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
It's overtime. So because we're so short of senior doctors,
you're saying to me that they shouldn't be paid over
time appointments.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The expect that we can't you're calling for can't respects.
The other thing is there are more your doctors employed
now and there were when National came to power. There
are more senior doctors employed now than there was.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And they're still aren't enough. So what's your point here
that My point is do you want to.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Spend a few appointments? Okay? My point is do you
want to spend twelve percent on giving people up an
unrealistic pay rise or do you want that twelve percent
to go to employing twelve percent more doctors.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You're not going to get more doctors Morris though.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You're not going to attract them to overseas if you
give them crap pay and they can get more paid
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, but it's not crap I'm sorry, Hither, it's not
crap pay.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It might not be Look, it might not be crap
pay when you compare it to a KFC worker, but
if you compare it to another senior doctor over in
New South Wales's crap pay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Well, actually, you're also missing the next point. A number
of the senior doctors, and I know some of them
very well, also do a huge amount of stuff in
the private sector to supplement that and are earning five hundred,
six hundred and up to a million dollars of income.
So I'm sorry, but I don't think the vast bulk
of the public out they have a great deal of sympathy.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
In a moment, I'm going to fundamentally disagree with you there,
Mar I think people have a great deal of sympathy
for senior doctors. And you're absolutely right. If you're a
senior doctor in New Zealand and you're looking at, you know,
the pay that you could receive in New South Wales,
which is by the way, the worst paid sector in Australia,
then it's well above that which is available in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
All right, we think.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Simeon Brown needs to turn the temperature down on this
to make sure actually he's talking to doctors rather than
shouting at.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We'll leave it there, come back and just to take.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
The huddle with New Zealand. Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Reach Stein away from Sex, Morris Williams and Craig Greennie
on the huddle.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
That's Morris.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I see you got Laura, the producer came in and
she gave me a graph of annual CO two emissions
that you want me to see?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Who hung up? Who's there?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Hold on, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh, Craig, you're still there? Okay, Morris. Morris has sent
me a graph and.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Then he's disappeared, so anywhere now I'm gonna ben it.
I think you're trying to make the point that we don't.
Actually it's back.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, something came off here for me, Oh did it?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, what I was going to make the point is that, yes,
I want us to do but we can with our
emissions to reduce them. But I don't want to die
on the altar of purity and say we're going to
get rid of agriculture and we're going to get rid
of this like the Greens are advocating. The reason I've
given you that graph is that New Zealand CO two
missions don't even register off the X axis. You can't
even see. And you look at China's growth in any
(08:28):
one year, it's way bigger than our total, and so
we could end up being the purest country in the
world doing.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Everything we as well.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's China and India and South if you look at
Brazil and the rest of South America. So this idea
that well, I've heard the Greens at the last election campaign.
If you vote for us, we can fix climate change.
Our contribution to climate change is point one seven of
eight percent, and so we should do I'm not saying
we shouldn't do a bit. We should do whatever we can,
(08:58):
but within reason, not with not the extreme of lunacy.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, you know what, Craig, I wonder if Morris is
struck on something here, which is I wonder if part
of the epathy that we're registering in their IPSOS poll
about climate change is simply the fact that New Zealanders
are starting to realize that we actually have no impact
on the world's climate in this country.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Oh well we do quick clearly well in terms of
New Zealanders are one of the highest per capita emitters
of carbon anywhere in the world, and.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Million of us.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Well, it's still really important and if all of us,
if everyone in the world was to behave like that,
climate change would be out of control and then but
they're not because we've got the Paris Avidmits and other
countries are working. America, yes, but that's not a reason
for New Zealand to not deliver its part in delivering
(09:47):
climate change. And as a consequence, we need to be
doing that because if we don't, then we are guaranteeing
and kneeling on climate change for our children in the future.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
The difference between us is how much I'm a fan
of doing what would work. If we can do things
to stop our cows belching and farting and so on,
I think that's great, all of those things. When we
want to say let's get rid of agriculture and get
rid of our transport sector, we go too far.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, too right, guys, listen, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
We'll have to leave it there, and Morris Williams and
Craig Rennie our huddle this evening. Happy Easter to you both.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
On the huddle this evening got Morris Williams and Auckland
councilor obviously former National Party member and Craig Ready of
the c to you chief economists there.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello, let's hi Treva. Sorry, that good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Hold on, did you just call me triva?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I did correct myself. I corrected my I was just
picking up the phone because I hadn't had it up
my ear.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Is it because it rhymes with hither or.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It probably was. I did not think of you in
any way as a Triva.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
We're going to write that one on the list of.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Names and you can probably get the chromosome tests prove it.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Do you know what today I'll identify as triva for
the for the Craig. Craig, you you're bracing yourself for
a snap election.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You're getting ready?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Oh, I'm not. I'm not putting much faith in there
being a snap election.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Obviously.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
I think everybody, you know, all political parties will want
to be ready. But I think a lot of that
is sort of very loose talk. Governments tend to stick
together much more than they tend to fall apart, So
I'm not I don't think it's likely that to happen
to me.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You know you want to give you mate Kieran at
the Labor Party call and tell him to settle down.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I think he's just pointing out that the party is
ready for an election if there is going to be one.
I think if Winston Peters wants to call an election
and you make this a one term government, then fantastic.
But in terms of you know whether or not there
will be an election, I really don't think so.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't think so, Morris. Why are they doing this?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean, why on earth are the likes of the
Labor Party in New Zealand first as well talking this
kind of nonsense up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, it's ridiculous. I mean that there's two points that
need to be made. First of all, they've got a
lot of penance to do before they can come back
into the political landscape and not be embarrassed about the
money they spent and the little they got for it
in the economics times they've put us through and everyone
knows what happened with six years of Grant Robinson's way
over spending, way under delivering and so on. So it'll
(01:48):
take a while for Labor to come back from the
wilderness it always does. It happened to us when we
got sent to the wilderness. It's very unlikely to ever
come back after one term. But the second problem they've got,
and it's serious. I don't know how they'll ever go
to an election campaign when the only people they can
rely on to get them back into government are the
other than whack jobs Greens and even bigger whack jobs
to party Mari.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Actually, that's a fair point that you make, Marris.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Have you been following this business that's party Marty saying
that they want to have Mary get to pinch in
ten years earlier.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, there's a good question there. What's Mari. Well, if
you are like if you are like David Seymour, and
you're one thirty second or one sixty fourth, you take
once do you take one sixty fourth of ten years
and you get it only three months early, and so
that a full Mariy gets the whole ten years and
a half gets five years. Then it gets really crazy
because you can be a mari if you identify as one,
(02:38):
are you going to give that person some special dealage?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
It's your self in trouble if you talk like this, Morris.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm sorry, but no it's a question that would have
to be fronted if you were going to do that policy.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But what is Yeah, but what what about the politics
of the situation? Right, Because we talked about this yesterday,
here's Labour sort of entertaining the idea briefly and then
shooting it down today. Second that don't you just need
to if you'll Labor go into the default position of
gently shooting down everything that comes out of those people's brains.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Anything that comes out of there in that scope, you
just say this is just nuts, just simply nuts, because
the public wouldn't have a bar of it. You would
have absolute political rights. But I'm really hot to trot
on that point about what is a maori? There are
some people that maybe fifty percent. I'm told there is
no pure mari anymore. But there are people who have
got one sixty fourth in their ancestry back five grandparents ago.
(03:29):
Do they get the whole lot or do they get
one sixty fourth?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I still identify it Scottish and I don't know how
diluted it is.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
So you know, I want to claim from the Highlands, then.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Hey, tell me something.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Craig Rea Sam and Brown, do you think he's going
a little bit hard on the senior doctors.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
This is the retrick a little high.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I think he needs to turn the temperature down enormously
on this, you know, sort of. There's a reason why
doctors are on strike. There's you know that there's there's
more than a thousand doctors short, senior doctors short across
the country. He's complaining about four thousand appointments being lost.
We lose more than that a week as a consequence
of not having the number of doctors that we need
(04:11):
in the country. You know, they're looking for they're looking
to just make sure their pay catches up with junior doctors,
because if you make the decision to become a senior
doctor right now, you'll actually lose money going from it,
going from being a junior doctor to a senior doctor,
because they've lost that progressivity. So, you know, really we
need to be looking at the three hundred and eighty
(04:33):
million dollars we're spending on locoms and temporary doctors right
now if we want, you know, if we want to
make savings in the health service, and we need to
make more than a billion dollars of savings in the
health service.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
According to TIFATA, Aura.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So I think if he wants to get to the solution,
if he wants junior doctors, I say, senior doctors to
come to the table. You know that that involves a
respectful conversation.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
In the trade in treatment we talk about good faith,
and he's not really demonstrating good faith right now with
the words that he's using.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It will come as no surprise that I think the
complete opposite of that. I think his job is to
get out some absolute facts. For example, last year they
got an eight percent rise. They're now asking for a
twelve percent rise. Hands up those across New Zealand who
thinks twelve percents are realistic?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Rise that Morris Morris Morris. Then then let's talk about
some absolute facts. He said, the average pay of a
doctor is three hundred and fifty thousand. The top of
scale for a senior doctor is two hundred and seventy thousand.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
Okay, so let's go through what he actually did. What
was the total package? No, no, sorry, can't get away
with that, Craig. He said, the total package when you
add all the elements together. So this is overtime, So
there's a whole lot of elements for the paage.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
It's overtime. So because we're so short of senior doctors,
you're saying to me that they shouldn't be paid over
time appointments.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The expect that we can't you're calling for can't respects.
The other thing is there are more your doctors employed
now and there were when National came to power. There
are more senior doctors employed now than there was.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
And they're still aren't enough. So what's your point here
that My point is do you want to.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Spend a few appointments? Okay? My point is do you
want to spend twelve percent on giving people up an
unrealistic pay rise or do you want that twelve percent
to go to employing twelve percent more doctors.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
You're not going to get more doctors Morris though.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You're not going to attract them to overseas if you
give them crap pay and they can get more paid
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, but it's not crap I'm sorry, Hither, it's not
crap pay.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It might not be Look, it might not be crap
pay when you compare it to a KFC worker, but
if you compare it to another senior doctor over in
New South Wales's crap pay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Well, actually, you're also missing the next point. A number
of the senior doctors, and I know some of them
very well, also do a huge amount of stuff in
the private sector to supplement that and are earning five hundred,
six hundred and up to a million dollars of income.
So I'm sorry, but I don't think the vast bulk
of the public out they have a great deal of sympathy.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
In a moment, I'm going to fundamentally disagree with you there,
Mar I think people have a great deal of sympathy
for senior doctors. And you're absolutely right. If you're a
senior doctor in New Zealand and you're looking at, you know,
the pay that you could receive in New South Wales,
which is by the way, the worst paid sector in Australia,
then it's well above that which is available in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
All right, we think.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Simeon Brown needs to turn the temperature down on this
to make sure actually he's talking to doctors rather than
shouting at.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We'll leave it there, come back and just to take.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
The huddle with New Zealand. Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary
results with unparallel.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Reach Stein away from Sex, Morris Williams and Craig Greennie
on the huddle.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
That's Morris.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I see you got Laura, the producer came in and
she gave me a graph of annual CO two emissions
that you want me to see?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Who hung up? Who's there?
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Hold on, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh, Craig, you're still there? Okay, Morris. Morris has sent
me a graph and.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Then he's disappeared, so anywhere now I'm gonna ben it.
I think you're trying to make the point that we don't.
Actually it's back.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
No, something came off here for me, Oh did it?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, what I was going to make the point is that, yes,
I want us to do but we can with our
emissions to reduce them. But I don't want to die
on the altar of purity and say we're going to
get rid of agriculture and we're going to get rid
of this like the Greens are advocating. The reason I've
given you that graph is that New Zealand CO two
missions don't even register off the X axis. You can't
even see. And you look at China's growth in any
(08:28):
one year, it's way bigger than our total, and so
we could end up being the purest country in the
world doing.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Everything we as well.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's China and India and South if you look at
Brazil and the rest of South America. So this idea
that well, I've heard the Greens at the last election campaign.
If you vote for us, we can fix climate change.
Our contribution to climate change is point one seven of
eight percent, and so we should do I'm not saying
we shouldn't do a bit. We should do whatever we can,
(08:58):
but within reason, not with not the extreme of lunacy.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, you know what, Craig, I wonder if Morris is
struck on something here, which is I wonder if part
of the epathy that we're registering in their IPSOS poll
about climate change is simply the fact that New Zealanders
are starting to realize that we actually have no impact
on the world's climate in this country.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Oh well we do quick clearly well in terms of
New Zealanders are one of the highest per capita emitters
of carbon anywhere in the world, and.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Million of us.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Well, it's still really important and if all of us,
if everyone in the world was to behave like that,
climate change would be out of control and then but
they're not because we've got the Paris Avidmits and other
countries are working. America, yes, but that's not a reason
for New Zealand to not deliver its part in delivering
(09:47):
climate change. And as a consequence, we need to be
doing that because if we don't, then we are guaranteeing
and kneeling on climate change for our children in the future.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
The difference between us is how much I'm a fan
of doing what would work. If we can do things
to stop our cows belching and farting and so on,
I think that's great, all of those things. When we
want to say let's get rid of agriculture and get
rid of our transport sector, we go too far.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, too right, guys, listen, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
We'll have to leave it there, and Morris Williams and
Craig Rennie our huddle this evening. Happy Easter to you both.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
News Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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