April 23, 2025 • 10 mins
Tonight on The Huddle, Jack Tame, host of Saturday Mornings and Q&A and Jordan Williams from the Taxpayers' Union joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Labour wants Chris Luxon to tell Winston Peters to back off after the latter had a fiery interview on RNZ this morning - and his threat to cut RNZ's funding off. Was he right? Was it appropriate?
New Zealand is pledging more money and support for Ukraine - do we agree with this move?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international realty the ones
with worldwide connections that perform not a promise.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
By the way, I should say, Tim Grosser, former New
Zealand Ambassadors to the US, is going to be with
us after six talk about Trump's back down on the
China tariffs with us. Right now in the huddle we
have Jack Tame, hosts of Saturday Mornings in Q and A,
and Jordan Williams of the Taxpayers Union Highlands.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Jack.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Jack, what did you make of Winston's tantrum about arn Z.
Speaker 5 (00:27):
I thought it was vintage Winston Peters. That is everything
that the paradox of a politician is. You know, in
one week he's so statesman like when he's traveling the
world meeting with foreign leaders and dignitaries and trying to
negotiate these key positions for New Zealand. The next he
behaves like that. I thought it was pretty unbecoming for
someone who's in the you know, whose Deputy Prime Minister
(00:49):
lett alone a MP. I don't think there was anything
particularly difficult about the questions, but I think it probably
played out exactly as Winston wanted it to play out.
I mean curious that he was being questioned about whether
or not the members bill he's seeking to introduce would
be a distraction. Curious that that would then lead to
this right, that it would lead to that performance this morning,
(01:10):
and then would have the whole country talking like I say,
vintage Winston Peters. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
What rickon Jordan's Well, it might be unbecoming, as Jack said,
but doesn't make it wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I mean there is you.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Know what he said.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
With Urns deed, of course it is. I mean ourne
had live in a different world. They have absolutely no accountability.
They now don't even publish and refuse to issue what
the ratings are for their individual shows.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You know, back in the I'm actually a believer in.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Public service broadcasting, but it does require professionalism and balance,
for which are in Jet has now shown it is
simply unable to deliver.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
It was what was unbalanced about that interview this morning on.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Haven't listened to the interview with the len the opposition
for contrast, But look, I.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Wasn't introducing a contentious bill, was he. I mean, he's
gone straight to the to the leader of a party
that is that is introducing what is inevaty.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Okay, Jack hanging a check mate?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you are you telling me that you have never
listened to ring Z and thought they go a little
hard on the coalition government and and.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Seem to give parties of the left a bit of
a free pass.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
You've never thought I think exactly the opposite sometimes applies
to you.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The question we don't pay Heather.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
The question is the question is whether or not that
interview this morning was was biased.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Jordan, That's not the question.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
The question is Jordan has Jordan has just asserted that
various problems with Irons and look, I think some of
those criticisms are totally reasonable.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I think it's out.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Rating that those that those public rating those rating shouldn't
automatically be public. However, I think that interview and listening
to it this morning was entirely reasonable. I think Corn
DNN is an excellent interviewer, and honestly, I'll stand upon
people Jack and to ask reasonable questions with politicians.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I don't think what we're discussing what Winston has accused
Aaron Zov as being woke left right, and if you.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Listen to it over a period of weeks or.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Months or even days. It's very hard not to come
to the conclusion that he may have a point there.
Set aside that one single interview, but as a pattern
of interviews, he has a point, doesn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Well, his behavior is responding to one single interview. That's
how he blew up on here. That's what led to
him making his social media posts. I thought the interview
I listened to was entirely reasonable, and I think that
as someone who I know values like journalistic quality said
that you should be standing up for somebody.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Up.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
You're avoiding the point, wouldn't go, you go bring.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Poor Jackson been in the gun and on. This is
the thing when Willie Jackson there to got you and
and that's not fear. I agree with that, and to
be frank, I didn't think the interview with Winston Peters
this morning was actually that bad. But fundamentally there is
clearly a problem at ORENS.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I know it from the way that my staff for treated.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I had some slack messages leaked to me when the
Taxpayers Union was asked on to Morning Report, where the
journalists inside ORIE are saying, oh, the Taxpayers Union are
in the lobby.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I mean they just do the.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Management at Orange take a take a view that, oh, well,
you know, we can't possibly dictate anything in the newsroom
or select the stories or things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well we wonder why that they they wonder why they're
losing the public's trust, that the professionalism that required that
balance or newsrooms reflecting society simply does not apply. And
they're almost proud to be campaigning that that is the
fundamental change and the question.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And the Canadians are quite right. I mean, the mainstream
Canadian center right party is going to the election in
a week's time literally in their manifest though, to defund
the CBC the equivalent of Radio New Zealand, because they
argue and I think it's perhaps time for us to
have that discussion in New Zealand that required to have
(05:20):
some ads, so you actually have to publish your ratings
and you actually have to hold the audience with you
rather than simply have a free lunch, as aren Z does.
And way to Arenz, aren Z land only that that
has to come to an end, all right, I.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Think though, and obviously we're arguing in slightly different points here.
My point is that is that the incident that has
triggered this debate was an interview that Winston Peters labeled
as being unse you, although in much more colorful language.
And I think it was an entirely reasonable interview.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Reasonable interviewer ads no, no, but I mean, okay, I
love co Coran is Coran is one of the nicest
men you will ever meet.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
But but Kran started that out being a bit of
a dick, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (06:10):
I don't, I agree, Well he did.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Because he said to Winston said, can I ask a question?
And Koran said, I'm the one who's asking questions here,
and this, my three year old sounds ago. I'm the
one who asking questions hair and only if I trelevant,
And it was just it was just a prickly and
so I can. I'm not really surprised that it went
the way it did.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Are you no, because I think this is Winston.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think this break.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I have got to take an ad break because we
are not.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay, Aaron said, you're welcome, We're not funded by the
tax brayer.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Hanging a tick.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Just you two don't go anywhere back with a huddle,
Jack tame Jordan Williams. Listen, Jordan, you're keeping an eye
on this business with the co governance and the white
tuckety rangers.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, who'd your interview with your good mate Richard Hill's
earlier And I'm not for a moment suggesting that he's
being sneaky, but he is wrong with his claim that
that that around access, that it would ultimately be the.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Decision of the council.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What is being proposed, make no mistake, is a co
governed management of the park. You can't have it both ways.
I mean, reason minds can differ on the sort of stuff,
but I'm of the view that either it should be
council controlled and democratically accountable, or ownership should be handed
(07:25):
over as part of a treaty settlement.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
This sort of weird, horrible.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
In between co governance stuff where no one's happy it does.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Race relations are disservice.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I think we can hear the next baby and the
sort of misleading of the public of what it means
is what happened with the volcano Cones in Auckland. And
I'm sad to say and that actually I think this
group Democracy Action has a point, and I think that
(07:55):
it's damn good of them to raise this issue before
it's too late.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Better know it okay. So, Jack, do you have the
baby in a front pack?
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah, he's snoring a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
He's snoring a little bit. Well, he is snoring the
whole huddle, and I've been I didn't want to draw
attention to it, but.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Especially you reposition him slightly a little mate.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
How long has he been sleeping?
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Probably forty minutes. I just wanted to give us.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Not going to sleep tonight. Yeah, yeah, I'm wandering around
on the summer and make the Chapo because I had
to leave the car because my toddler. Toddler and five
year old agoing bananas and it is still freezing here.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You have you, Jordan left them in the car by
themselves in.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
The car car. It's okay, it's okay. Possibly your producer
would kill me if if I left her in the lurch.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Totally listen, Jack, I just want you take really quickly
on this.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
What do you think of pumping more money into into
the Ukraine War given that the thing is clearly just
it's it's a lost cause.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, I really hope it's not a lost cause. And
if we've seen anything in the war so far, it's
actually that sometimes the wisest expert predictions about the course
of the war turned out to be one hundred percent wrong.
That being said, Look, I don't actually think New Zealand's
financial commitment is all that substantial at the moment. I
think it is really important that we stand up for
(09:24):
country's sovereign rights for democracies, and I think it's really
important that we are aligned with similarly minded countries for
the time being.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So I've got no problem with it, shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
I want your take because I know that you're a
tight world with the old tax payment.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I've actually got a staffer who thinks that defense
is a waste of money, for which even I really
scratch my head at that it's both morally right and
diplomatically has advantageous to be in with with Europe.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, I mean, well, I mean, of course we'll want
it to end.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I saw that in the prep notoes for us that
was saying, you know, what's the point of putting money
in when they're going to lose anyway? But it's actually
all now about the negotiation position.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Surely, yep, But they are going to lose, aren't they
if they keep fighting?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Do we accept Well, if you've got Trump saying that
you know you can have what you've bitten off, mister
Putin will Yes, Yeah, from Ukrainian's point of view, that
is a loss, but it's better to stop losing more lives.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yesose, So hey, listen, guys, thank you so much. Jack,
Beast of luck with the sleeping baby. There's Jack, Tame
and jord and Williams.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A huddle this evening for more from Hither Duplessy Allen
Drive listen live to news talks it'd be from four
pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international realty the ones
with worldwide connections that perform not a promise.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
By the way, I should say, Tim Grosser, former New
Zealand Ambassadors to the US, is going to be with
us after six talk about Trump's back down on the
China tariffs with us. Right now in the huddle we
have Jack Tame, hosts of Saturday Mornings in Q and A,
and Jordan Williams of the Taxpayers Union Highlands.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Jack.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Jack, what did you make of Winston's tantrum about arn Z.
Speaker 5 (00:27):
I thought it was vintage Winston Peters. That is everything
that the paradox of a politician is. You know, in
one week he's so statesman like when he's traveling the
world meeting with foreign leaders and dignitaries and trying to
negotiate these key positions for New Zealand. The next he
behaves like that. I thought it was pretty unbecoming for
someone who's in the you know, whose Deputy Prime Minister
(00:49):
lett alone a MP. I don't think there was anything
particularly difficult about the questions, but I think it probably
played out exactly as Winston wanted it to play out.
I mean curious that he was being questioned about whether
or not the members bill he's seeking to introduce would
be a distraction. Curious that that would then lead to
this right, that it would lead to that performance this morning,
(01:10):
and then would have the whole country talking like I say,
vintage Winston Peters. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
What rickon Jordan's Well, it might be unbecoming, as Jack said,
but doesn't make it wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I mean there is you.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Know what he said.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
With Urns deed, of course it is. I mean ourne
had live in a different world. They have absolutely no accountability.
They now don't even publish and refuse to issue what
the ratings are for their individual shows.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You know, back in the I'm actually a believer in.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Public service broadcasting, but it does require professionalism and balance,
for which are in Jet has now shown it is
simply unable to deliver.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
It was what was unbalanced about that interview this morning on.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Haven't listened to the interview with the len the opposition
for contrast, But look, I.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Wasn't introducing a contentious bill, was he. I mean, he's
gone straight to the to the leader of a party
that is that is introducing what is inevaty.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Okay, Jack hanging a check mate?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you are you telling me that you have never
listened to ring Z and thought they go a little
hard on the coalition government and and.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Seem to give parties of the left a bit of
a free pass.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
You've never thought I think exactly the opposite sometimes applies
to you.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The question we don't pay Heather.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
The question is the question is whether or not that
interview this morning was was biased.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Jordan, That's not the question.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
The question is Jordan has Jordan has just asserted that
various problems with Irons and look, I think some of
those criticisms are totally reasonable.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I think it's out.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Rating that those that those public rating those rating shouldn't
automatically be public. However, I think that interview and listening
to it this morning was entirely reasonable. I think Corn
DNN is an excellent interviewer, and honestly, I'll stand upon
people Jack and to ask reasonable questions with politicians.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I don't think what we're discussing what Winston has accused
Aaron Zov as being woke left right, and if you.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Listen to it over a period of weeks or.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Months or even days. It's very hard not to come
to the conclusion that he may have a point there.
Set aside that one single interview, but as a pattern
of interviews, he has a point, doesn't it.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Well, his behavior is responding to one single interview. That's
how he blew up on here. That's what led to
him making his social media posts. I thought the interview
I listened to was entirely reasonable, and I think that
as someone who I know values like journalistic quality said
that you should be standing up for somebody.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Up.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
You're avoiding the point, wouldn't go, you go bring.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Poor Jackson been in the gun and on. This is
the thing when Willie Jackson there to got you and
and that's not fear. I agree with that, and to
be frank, I didn't think the interview with Winston Peters
this morning was actually that bad. But fundamentally there is
clearly a problem at ORENS.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I know it from the way that my staff for treated.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I had some slack messages leaked to me when the
Taxpayers Union was asked on to Morning Report, where the
journalists inside ORIE are saying, oh, the Taxpayers Union are
in the lobby.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I mean they just do the.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Management at Orange take a take a view that, oh, well,
you know, we can't possibly dictate anything in the newsroom
or select the stories or things like that.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Well we wonder why that they they wonder why they're
losing the public's trust, that the professionalism that required that
balance or newsrooms reflecting society simply does not apply. And
they're almost proud to be campaigning that that is the
fundamental change and the question.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
And the Canadians are quite right. I mean, the mainstream
Canadian center right party is going to the election in
a week's time literally in their manifest though, to defund
the CBC the equivalent of Radio New Zealand, because they
argue and I think it's perhaps time for us to
have that discussion in New Zealand that required to have
(05:20):
some ads, so you actually have to publish your ratings
and you actually have to hold the audience with you
rather than simply have a free lunch, as aren Z does.
And way to Arenz, aren Z land only that that
has to come to an end, all right, I.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Think though, and obviously we're arguing in slightly different points here.
My point is that is that the incident that has
triggered this debate was an interview that Winston Peters labeled
as being unse you, although in much more colorful language.
And I think it was an entirely reasonable interview.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Reasonable interviewer ads no, no, but I mean, okay, I
love co Coran is Coran is one of the nicest
men you will ever meet.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
But but Kran started that out being a bit of
a dick, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (06:10):
I don't, I agree, Well he did.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Because he said to Winston said, can I ask a question?
And Koran said, I'm the one who's asking questions here,
and this, my three year old sounds ago. I'm the
one who asking questions hair and only if I trelevant,
And it was just it was just a prickly and
so I can. I'm not really surprised that it went
the way it did.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Are you no, because I think this is Winston.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, I think this break.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I have got to take an ad break because we
are not.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay, Aaron said, you're welcome, We're not funded by the
tax brayer.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Hanging a tick.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Just you two don't go anywhere back with a huddle,
Jack tame Jordan Williams. Listen, Jordan, you're keeping an eye
on this business with the co governance and the white
tuckety rangers.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, who'd your interview with your good mate Richard Hill's
earlier And I'm not for a moment suggesting that he's
being sneaky, but he is wrong with his claim that
that that around access, that it would ultimately be the.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Decision of the council.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
What is being proposed, make no mistake, is a co
governed management of the park. You can't have it both ways.
I mean, reason minds can differ on the sort of stuff,
but I'm of the view that either it should be
council controlled and democratically accountable, or ownership should be handed
(07:25):
over as part of a treaty settlement.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
This sort of weird, horrible.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
In between co governance stuff where no one's happy it does.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Race relations are disservice.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I think we can hear the next baby and the
sort of misleading of the public of what it means
is what happened with the volcano Cones in Auckland. And
I'm sad to say and that actually I think this
group Democracy Action has a point, and I think that
(07:55):
it's damn good of them to raise this issue before
it's too late.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Better know it okay. So, Jack, do you have the
baby in a front pack?
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah, he's snoring a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
He's snoring a little bit. Well, he is snoring the
whole huddle, and I've been I didn't want to draw
attention to it, but.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Especially you reposition him slightly a little mate.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
How long has he been sleeping?
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Probably forty minutes. I just wanted to give us.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Not going to sleep tonight. Yeah, yeah, I'm wandering around
on the summer and make the Chapo because I had
to leave the car because my toddler. Toddler and five
year old agoing bananas and it is still freezing here.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
You have you, Jordan left them in the car by
themselves in.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
The car car. It's okay, it's okay. Possibly your producer
would kill me if if I left her in the lurch.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Totally listen, Jack, I just want you take really quickly
on this.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
What do you think of pumping more money into into
the Ukraine War given that the thing is clearly just
it's it's a lost cause.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, I really hope it's not a lost cause. And
if we've seen anything in the war so far, it's
actually that sometimes the wisest expert predictions about the course
of the war turned out to be one hundred percent wrong.
That being said, Look, I don't actually think New Zealand's
financial commitment is all that substantial at the moment. I
think it is really important that we stand up for
(09:24):
country's sovereign rights for democracies, and I think it's really
important that we are aligned with similarly minded countries for
the time being.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So I've got no problem with it, shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
I want your take because I know that you're a
tight world with the old tax payment.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, I've actually got a staffer who thinks that defense
is a waste of money, for which even I really
scratch my head at that it's both morally right and
diplomatically has advantageous to be in with with Europe.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Well, I mean, well, I mean, of course we'll want
it to end.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I saw that in the prep notoes for us that
was saying, you know, what's the point of putting money
in when they're going to lose anyway? But it's actually
all now about the negotiation position.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Surely, yep, But they are going to lose, aren't they
if they keep fighting?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Do we accept Well, if you've got Trump saying that
you know you can have what you've bitten off, mister
Putin will Yes, Yeah, from Ukrainian's point of view, that
is a loss, but it's better to stop losing more lives.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yesose, So hey, listen, guys, thank you so much. Jack,
Beast of luck with the sleeping baby. There's Jack, Tame
and jord and Williams.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A huddle this evening for more from Hither Duplessy Allen
Drive listen live to news talks it'd be from four
pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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