The Government is planning a massive overhaul of New Zealand’s pay equity regime - and the New Zealand Nurses Organisation doesn't approve.
The reforms will overhaul a 2020 law establishing a regime to allow people in sectors with a large female workforce to argue that they were underpaid relative to similar work done in male-dominated sectors.
NZNO chief executive Paul Goulter says these proposed changes are 'disappointing'.
"We've called it shameful - and our members are really upset about this, they've been ringing in all day."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, the government, as we've discussed, has today announced a
massive overhaul of the pay equity claim system. The current
regime allows workers from sectors with a large female workforce
to argue that they are underpaid relative to similar work
done in male dominated sectors. Thirty three current claims are
going to stop immediately. Applicants will have to reapply under
a new regime. Paul Goalter is the chief executive of
(00:20):
the New Zealand Nurses Organization. Hey, Paul, hi, I take it.
You don't love this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
No, we're really disappointed with it. In fact, we've called
it shameful and our members are really upset about this.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
They've been ringing an all day about it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so you have got about right, am I right
in thinking about ten claims underway?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, we've got ten claims. Our position has been really
clear once we settled the defutto or or the hospital's
pay equity claim a couple of years ago, that we
wanted to put a claim across all the rest of
the nurses, right across primary health and age care and
the like, and that's what we've been endeavoring to do.
(01:02):
So that's quite quite a very extensive claim. The idea
for that is to try and eliminate the gender discrimination
aspect and their wage rates in order to start to
move towards papality.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Now under the new regime, will all ten of your
claims be able to be resubmitted? Will they still qualify.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well without seeing the detail of the legislation, But we will,
I think that's the important point. We will resubmit for
every one of those claims, and we are quite confident
from what we can read in the legislation that they
would stand a really good chance of going through. But
the problem here is it's been incredibly bureaucratic trying to
(01:44):
get our claims this far, and now we've got to
start again. I know a number of employers are really
hurting about that, and we're going to start again under
another regime.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
It just adds more years to it. Quite frankly, do.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know off the top of your head, Paul, who
your workers were comparing themselves to, So, for example, your
plunket workers, what was the comparison with what male dominated industry?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We hadn't got to that. We were just short of that.
We just had a couple more interviews on what the
jobs actually were that plunket nurses were doing and other
occupations within Plunket, and then you moved to a conversation
or a bargain if you liked with the employers about
which comparators would be in place, and then if you
(02:31):
argue about that, you could go to arbitration. Hopefully we
would have worked through that pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What about age care? Do you know who they were
comparing themselves to?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No? No, again, so with all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It hadn't got to that stage.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, with nurses, I can speak for the nurse's part
of age here, we certainly hadn't hadn't got to that
as and we had been working closely with the Age
Care Association to try and move this along as quickly
as possible, and we hadn't got to that stage either.
The care and so port workers claim is a bit different,
and I'm not quite sure who their comparators were with
(03:04):
care and support, and that reaches across into some age
care facilities or age care facilities.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, Now, is it fair to say, Paul that your
primary complaint is just the fact that this is going
to take longer. Right, there's no indication that your cases
are not going to succeed or anything like that. You
might still get there, it's just that it takes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Longer, but it's now weighted more heavily against getting the
outcomes we think are appropriate. Well, there's a number of
early stages which they seem just reading the media releases
to have introduced, are going to introduce to prove that
(03:40):
it's a female dominated occupation. You're going to move from
sixty percent female to seventy percent that in some trades.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Or occupations would give a problem.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Then there's grounds for extended grounds for knocking out the claim.
It's going to be harder to do a multi employer
claim those sorts of things, and employers have got an
increased ability to basically make the whole thing a lot
more difficult, which is quite ironic in health because we've
(04:13):
been working closely with the employers across all age care
and GPS and the like to try and move this
thing along.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So and actually we've been had a number of.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Calls from our employers that we've been working with saying
what the hell's going on and where do we go
next with us?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
You're not going to give up, are you. We've said no,
we're not giving up all.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right, Paul, thank you very much for your time. I
do appreciate It's Paul goal to the chief executive of
the NZO, the nurses Organization.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Now, the government, as we've discussed, has today announced a
massive overhaul of the pay equity claim system. The current
regime allows workers from sectors with a large female workforce
to argue that they are underpaid relative to similar work
done in male dominated sectors. Thirty three current claims are
going to stop immediately. Applicants will have to reapply under
a new regime. Paul Goalter is the chief executive of
(00:20):
the New Zealand Nurses Organization. Hey, Paul, hi, I take it.
You don't love this.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
No, we're really disappointed with it. In fact, we've called
it shameful and our members are really upset about this.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
They've been ringing an all day about it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, so you have got about right, am I right
in thinking about ten claims underway?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, we've got ten claims. Our position has been really
clear once we settled the defutto or or the hospital's
pay equity claim a couple of years ago, that we
wanted to put a claim across all the rest of
the nurses, right across primary health and age care and
the like, and that's what we've been endeavoring to do.
(01:02):
So that's quite quite a very extensive claim. The idea
for that is to try and eliminate the gender discrimination
aspect and their wage rates in order to start to
move towards papality.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Now under the new regime, will all ten of your
claims be able to be resubmitted? Will they still qualify.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well without seeing the detail of the legislation, But we will,
I think that's the important point. We will resubmit for
every one of those claims, and we are quite confident
from what we can read in the legislation that they
would stand a really good chance of going through. But
the problem here is it's been incredibly bureaucratic trying to
(01:44):
get our claims this far, and now we've got to
start again. I know a number of employers are really
hurting about that, and we're going to start again under
another regime.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
It just adds more years to it. Quite frankly, do.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know off the top of your head, Paul, who
your workers were comparing themselves to, So, for example, your
plunket workers, what was the comparison with what male dominated industry?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We hadn't got to that. We were just short of that.
We just had a couple more interviews on what the
jobs actually were that plunket nurses were doing and other
occupations within Plunket, and then you moved to a conversation
or a bargain if you liked with the employers about
which comparators would be in place, and then if you
(02:31):
argue about that, you could go to arbitration. Hopefully we
would have worked through that pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What about age care? Do you know who they were
comparing themselves to?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No? No, again, so with all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It hadn't got to that stage.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, with nurses, I can speak for the nurse's part
of age here, we certainly hadn't hadn't got to that
as and we had been working closely with the Age
Care Association to try and move this along as quickly
as possible, and we hadn't got to that stage either.
The care and so port workers claim is a bit different,
and I'm not quite sure who their comparators were with
(03:04):
care and support, and that reaches across into some age
care facilities or age care facilities.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, Now, is it fair to say, Paul that your
primary complaint is just the fact that this is going
to take longer. Right, there's no indication that your cases
are not going to succeed or anything like that. You
might still get there, it's just that it takes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Longer, but it's now weighted more heavily against getting the
outcomes we think are appropriate. Well, there's a number of
early stages which they seem just reading the media releases
to have introduced, are going to introduce to prove that
(03:40):
it's a female dominated occupation. You're going to move from
sixty percent female to seventy percent that in some trades.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Or occupations would give a problem.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Then there's grounds for extended grounds for knocking out the claim.
It's going to be harder to do a multi employer
claim those sorts of things, and employers have got an
increased ability to basically make the whole thing a lot
more difficult, which is quite ironic in health because we've
(04:13):
been working closely with the employers across all age care
and GPS and the like to try and move this
thing along.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So and actually we've been had a number of.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Calls from our employers that we've been working with saying
what the hell's going on and where do we go
next with us?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
You're not going to give up, are you. We've said no,
we're not giving up all.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right, Paul, thank you very much for your time. I
do appreciate It's Paul goal to the chief executive of
the NZO, the nurses Organization.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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