Mastercard has recently released a survey showing a significant amount of Kiwis want credit card surcharges banned.
The data shows 61 percent of respondents would support a ban and 75 percent don't believe surcharges are fair - and 44 percent feel retailers should absorb the costs.
Consumer NZ's Acting Head of Research and Advocacy, Jessica Walker, says the surcharge debate is a complicated topic.
"Businesses are charged a fee for using these payment networks - and of course, Visa and Mastercard are going to benefit from surcharges being banned, because it means more people will use Visa and Mastercard."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, master Card has released a survey that it says
shows kiwis want surcharges band Apparently, sixty one percent of
US would support a ban, Seventy five percent of US
do not believe that surcharging is fair. Forty four percent
of US think that retailers should absorb into change fees
without surcharging or without increasing the price. And Jessica Walker
is Consumers Acting Head of Research and Advocacy. Hey Jessica, Hi,
(00:22):
how are you doing. I'm very well. I need you
to I need you to explain something to me. Jessica.
I look at this coming from MasterCard, who I believe
are ultimately responsible for the fact that we get surcharged,
and I think they have got a bloody brass neck
putting something like this out. Am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, it's really complicated, and I feel like I'm always
staying complicating. It sounds like a cop up. But payment
systems are really complicated, and businesses are charged a fee
for using these these payment networks. And so of course
Visa and MasterCard are going to benefit from surcharges being
bunned because it means that more people will use Visa
(00:59):
and master Cards. Because it will be free for them
to do so. But we think we've gone on the
record and said that surcharges are a national embarrassment, and
we stand by that. There is a huge problem.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Blame for them? Who do you blame for them? Do
you blame Do you blame MasterCard and Visa who have
who introduced the fees? Do you blame the retail banks
who also have fees? Or do you blame the little
retailer who I bought my coffee from today, who is
going to have to absorb what is in some cases
like thousands of dollars? It's a lot. Who do you blame?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And we don't blame one person, and again it sounds
like a cup out or one organization, But we are
saying that there needs to be regulations, so right now
is guidelines, and so we think that's what's contributing to
the mess there was the consumer is the horrible experience.
But also I get your point that for small businesses
it's also a mess because they're in carring fees that
they shouldn't be and they've got no choice but to
(01:54):
pass them on, or if they're not passing them on,
then it means it's costing them more. So what we
think is a bunch would absolutely be on the table.
But in the meantime, we really support this further interchange regulation,
which is what the Commerce Commission has just been consulting on.
And what that should mean is that costs for businesses
come down, so which should cost them much less to
(02:14):
expect payments, and that's what interim measure.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Am I wrong to blame Visa and master Card for this?
Am I wrong to actually see them as the lead
culprits because when I read about what happened last year
around about this time in the US, they reached a
thirty billion dollar settlement over these credit card fees, which
was basically accepting that they were too high. So am
I wrong blaming them for this?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think blame needs to be a portion across lots
of different players because.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right now, tell me who they are, so who What.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We don't understand is where the extra money is going.
So we think that's one question that needs to be
asked and companies yeah, yeah, well yeah, and then are
there some retailers that are taking some cream off the
top as well? Is it payment service providers? So there's
so many questions, but at the end of the day
is the it's the consumer that's paying the cost for this.
(03:11):
It does need to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But okay, to get back to my point. Though MasterCard
does have a bloody brass neck, don't they well tya
going to benefit it's separately they're charging them. I mean,
how can they think about this, Jessica, How can they
actually say that these charges, these surcharges need to be banned,
Like the little retailer who's selling you the tiny little
pot part you're buying has to stop the surcharge because
(03:35):
they want to fill their pockets. The old credit card
companies anyway, and never mind, I'm not going to force
you to take my side on this. However, it seems
to me that what the Commerce Commission is proposing is
actually a solution to this, right because not only are
they going to regulate what these fat cats can charge,
but they then do actually regulate also what the retailers
can charge you.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And I yeah, that's right. So at the moment, the
section that's that's regulated is what the business is paying
you as the contumer pay is what's it's There are
only guidelines, and we think that they're being ignored because
surcharges are supposed to be not excessive. They're supposed to
be visible, and you're supposed to know in advance what
you're going to pay in a lot of the time
(04:15):
what consumers are telling us, and we know we're all
consumers ourselves that that's not the case. So we absolutely
support the Commerce Commission bringing those charges down, which should
mean that if there is an all outbound which we
think should be on the table, then businesses fees are
going to be lower. So if those costs are passed
on in higher costs of service and goods, it should
(04:35):
be less than one percent overall, and we think that's
a much better position than what we're in now. You know,
for example, the most egregious surcharge we've heard about in
the last few months was twenty five percent Behave. It's
just got to stop it with a nail stalon somewhere
twenty five percent nail salon. It's just absolutely shocking too.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, Hey, thank you very much, Jessica. Always appreciate a
JISCA Walker Consumers acting here, research and advocacy for more
From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks
it B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Now, master Card has released a survey that it says
shows kiwis want surcharges band Apparently, sixty one percent of
US would support a ban, Seventy five percent of US
do not believe that surcharging is fair. Forty four percent
of US think that retailers should absorb into change fees
without surcharging or without increasing the price. And Jessica Walker
is Consumers Acting Head of Research and Advocacy. Hey Jessica, Hi,
(00:22):
how are you doing. I'm very well. I need you
to I need you to explain something to me. Jessica.
I look at this coming from MasterCard, who I believe
are ultimately responsible for the fact that we get surcharged,
and I think they have got a bloody brass neck
putting something like this out. Am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, it's really complicated, and I feel like I'm always
staying complicating. It sounds like a cop up. But payment
systems are really complicated, and businesses are charged a fee
for using these these payment networks. And so of course
Visa and MasterCard are going to benefit from surcharges being
bunned because it means that more people will use Visa
(00:59):
and master Cards. Because it will be free for them
to do so. But we think we've gone on the
record and said that surcharges are a national embarrassment, and
we stand by that. There is a huge problem.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Blame for them? Who do you blame for them? Do
you blame Do you blame MasterCard and Visa who have
who introduced the fees? Do you blame the retail banks
who also have fees? Or do you blame the little
retailer who I bought my coffee from today, who is
going to have to absorb what is in some cases
like thousands of dollars? It's a lot. Who do you blame?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And we don't blame one person, and again it sounds
like a cup out or one organization, But we are
saying that there needs to be regulations, so right now
is guidelines, and so we think that's what's contributing to
the mess there was the consumer is the horrible experience.
But also I get your point that for small businesses
it's also a mess because they're in carring fees that
they shouldn't be and they've got no choice but to
(01:54):
pass them on, or if they're not passing them on,
then it means it's costing them more. So what we
think is a bunch would absolutely be on the table.
But in the meantime, we really support this further interchange regulation,
which is what the Commerce Commission has just been consulting on.
And what that should mean is that costs for businesses
come down, so which should cost them much less to
(02:14):
expect payments, and that's what interim measure.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Am I wrong to blame Visa and master Card for this?
Am I wrong to actually see them as the lead
culprits because when I read about what happened last year
around about this time in the US, they reached a
thirty billion dollar settlement over these credit card fees, which
was basically accepting that they were too high. So am
I wrong blaming them for this?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think blame needs to be a portion across lots
of different players because.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Right now, tell me who they are, so who What.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We don't understand is where the extra money is going.
So we think that's one question that needs to be
asked and companies yeah, yeah, well yeah, and then are
there some retailers that are taking some cream off the
top as well? Is it payment service providers? So there's
so many questions, but at the end of the day
is the it's the consumer that's paying the cost for this.
(03:11):
It does need to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
But okay, to get back to my point. Though MasterCard
does have a bloody brass neck, don't they well tya
going to benefit it's separately they're charging them. I mean,
how can they think about this, Jessica, How can they
actually say that these charges, these surcharges need to be banned,
Like the little retailer who's selling you the tiny little
pot part you're buying has to stop the surcharge because
(03:35):
they want to fill their pockets. The old credit card
companies anyway, and never mind, I'm not going to force
you to take my side on this. However, it seems
to me that what the Commerce Commission is proposing is
actually a solution to this, right because not only are
they going to regulate what these fat cats can charge,
but they then do actually regulate also what the retailers
can charge you.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And I yeah, that's right. So at the moment, the
section that's that's regulated is what the business is paying
you as the contumer pay is what's it's There are
only guidelines, and we think that they're being ignored because
surcharges are supposed to be not excessive. They're supposed to
be visible, and you're supposed to know in advance what
you're going to pay in a lot of the time
(04:15):
what consumers are telling us, and we know we're all
consumers ourselves that that's not the case. So we absolutely
support the Commerce Commission bringing those charges down, which should
mean that if there is an all outbound which we
think should be on the table, then businesses fees are
going to be lower. So if those costs are passed
on in higher costs of service and goods, it should
(04:35):
be less than one percent overall, and we think that's
a much better position than what we're in now. You know,
for example, the most egregious surcharge we've heard about in
the last few months was twenty five percent Behave. It's
just got to stop it with a nail stalon somewhere
twenty five percent nail salon. It's just absolutely shocking too.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, Hey, thank you very much, Jessica. Always appreciate a
JISCA Walker Consumers acting here, research and advocacy for more
From Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks
it B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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