Johnny Sexwale: South Africa's High Commissioner to NZ on Donald Trump's meeting with South African President Cyril Ramaphosa

High praise for South Africa's president after being confronted by Donald Trump at the White House.

There was a tense exchange this morning between the US President and South Africa's Cyril Ramaphosa.

Trump alleged white farmers are fleeing South Africa en masse, with thousands being massacred there.

He demanded video be played that he claimed backed up his allegations.

South Africa's High Commissioner to New Zealand, Johhny Sexwale, says Ramaphosa handled himself well.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Historic scenes, though, have played out in the White House again.
Today's we saw US President Donald Trump met with South
African President Cyril Ramoposa early this morning, and then during
the meeting, Trump rolled out a large screen TV and
instructed a staff as to turn the lights down, and
then played footage of what Trump claims as an ongoing
genocide against white farmers in South Africa.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
These are veryal, says Radio. Veryal says over one thousand
of white farmers.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
President Ramoposa, who was once actually Nelson Man Dallas chief negotiator,
was blindsided by the playing of the video.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'd like to know where that is, because this I've
never seen.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
South Africa's High Commissioner to New Zealander is with us,
As Johnny said, tale Johnny.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hello, hello here. It's good. Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Awkward to watch, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, it does a bit of quote. But I think
my president handled it very well, although he did not
expect it. But overall, I think he did manage to
explain to the President of the United States, President Trump,

(01:15):
that there is not genocide in South Africa.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
They may not, John, they may not be genocide, but
I mean we would all have to accept that it
is not a great time in South Africa to be
a white farmer, is there. I mean, there is the
violence and then there's the threat of having land confiscated.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's that's not true, Heather, South Africa. It's a normal
country like any other country. Then the the president demonstrated
yesterday that we are a normal country. There is no genocide.
He also brought with him white farmers that came to

(01:57):
the White House with the with the with the President
and those white farmers who spoke big business people. One
of them is the richest person in South Africa and
there was Yeah, he's one of the most the richest
person in South Africa.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Look, I take your point though, that there is no genocide.
I mean, and you know, there's obviously no evidence of genocide.
But it is hardly normal, Johnny, to have a piece
of legislation like the one that was passed in January
that allows a government to just confiscate land without any
kind of compensation if they want to.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
No, that legislation is actually misinterpreted, right. The the government
is not going to take really nearly land from the
people without negotiating with them.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
What the laws is available to them, though, isn't it Johnny,
and if they decide that they need it for whatever
reason in the public interests, they are actually able to
do that.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
The law gets well, just like it happens anyway anywhere
else in the world, when the government wants to build
an infrastructure like a road or a rail or something,
they will negotiate with the with the land owners and
compensate them for it.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Does it happen elsewhere in the world, though, that the
government can do that without any compensation.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
No, no, no, no, no, there is there Our law
doesn't say there is no compensation. That's what I'm saying.
That people are misreading our law and they are misinterpreted
book for their own advantage, Johnny.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
To be fair, I haven't gone to read the law myself,
but I have read multiple news agencies, including for example,
this example from Al Jazeera, saying, while the law does
spell out fair compensation, it also allows for seizure without
compensation in certain circumstances, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
No no, no, that is not true. That is not true.
Where there is no compensation is the land that is
lying in disused land that is lying, fellow, It's got
no no, no, no landowner or something like that. You know,
that the state will take.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
It development, So you might I also read no plans
for development. So let's say somebody owns the land, it
might look fallow to you. They may have no plans
for development because they're just leaving it there. But they
own it. Then in that circumstance it can be it
can be taken without compensation. That's not fair. That tramples

(04:26):
on property rights.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Obviously, the government is going to follow processes. Yeah, they'll
have to find out who the landowner is. They'll do
all the attempts to find the land owner, and after
finding the landowner, they will enter into negotiations the land
and and they agree with the landowner on the fair

(04:49):
amount to be paid to him for that piece of land.
So there's narrative that there is a land that has
been taken without in session. It is not true. It
is not true. It doesn't happen. There is no one
in South Africa right now who can tell you that
his land was taken because the person.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
To be fair, the legislation was only passed in January.
That would probably explain that. I'll tell you what else, okay,
I'll I think that also, it is kind of abnormal
internationally to have somebody like Julius Malemma running around saying
kill the boot and that just being sort of accepted
as part of the public discourse. I mean that's pretty wild.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
But you see one thing you must know right, South
Africa is a democratic country. South Africa has got a
number of political parties. Off Julius Malemma is one of
those political parties. Julius Malemba is not in government. He
is a leader of a small political party. So whatever

(05:54):
he says, it cannot be attributed to government. I said,
it's not the government policy.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Understand say that.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yes, so it is a party, so you cannot say
if some little party says something that you attribute to government.
You know, and.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Johnny, nobody is blaming the government for it. It is
just an accepted part of political discourse, which is I
think would see quite uncomfortably if you are a white
farmer being threatened by one of your national leaders.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Listen, but you see, Heather, let me just explain to
you the meeting yesterday. You saw we had four white
business people. Those are big businesses, right. We had also
one white minister, our Minister of Agriculture who is a
white person, and all of them they said publicly in

(06:44):
the White House to Trump himself to say there is
no genocide. There is no such thing in South Africa.
So this this narrative of genocide has been manufactured elsewhere.
It is not true, It is not happening.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Going to get no debate from me on that. Johnny, listen,
I really appreciate your time and thank you very much
for having a chat to us. It's Johnny Seith Twalle,
who is the South African High Commissioner to New Zealand.
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