Stuart Nash: former Labour Minister on whether Labour needs to ditch Chris Hipkins as leader

Former Labour MP Stuart Nash has suggested the party needs to have some conversations about its future.

NZ First leader Winston Peters has ruled out working with Labour after the 2026 election if Chris Hipkins is still in charge.

Nash says this doesn't necessarily mean Peters has ruled out working with Labour - and the party will need to make some big decisions.

"You go into politics to be in Government - so it is a really interesting dilemma. Now it may be that the situation doesn't arise, but I can see a situation where the Labour caucus has to make a very important decision." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, Labor Party leader Chris Hopkins is trying very hard
to pretend he doesn't care about Winston Peter's ruling out
ever working with him again. Stuart Nash is a former
Labour Party cabinet memberinct.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Most people in the Labor Party look at Winston Peters
and I think we'd rather not have to work with
him anyway.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Plenty of water to flow under the bridge before the
next selection.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Got My goal is to grow Labors vote as large as.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
I can there. He is trying very hard to pretend
he doesn't care. Stuart Nash is a former Labor Party
cabinet minister and with us now, hey, Stu, hey, how
are you? He sounds a bit flat though, doesn't he Well.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
First of all, before I make any commentary in this,
I do want to say I've got no insights on
this whatsoever. I haven't spoken to Winston about this or Chris,
but you know, Hopkins has got a well Labor Actually
it's a very interesting dilemma here because of course Labor
wants to grow their vote. It's not inconceivable, Heather, that
Labor could get let's say thirty five thirty six at
the next election. And you know, I live in the

(00:53):
regions and I spend a lot of time in the regions.
The only party at the moment that's resonating really with
good hard working men and woman is New zeald First.
I mean, Chris Luxem sort of alienated quite a few
of them. Labour has as well. They've become a bit
of a liberal party once again, a liberal, big city
party once again. The thing is is if you get
Labor at thirty six and then I'll turn to Reality

(01:16):
and New Zealand vers is on fifteen, then you can
form a government. Imagine then that you had National on
thirty three, New Zealand First on fifteen, and Act on
sort of five. I don't know what the numbers are,
so you would so you'd have a choice between Labor
and New Zealand First or New Zealand First, National and Act.
Now keep in mind Winston's only said he ruled out

(01:36):
working with Chris Hopkins. I did not hear him say
he's ruled out working with Labor.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
No, he hasn't. He's it's only Chris Sippins, which means
to you that Chip he's got a target on his back,
or should have at least.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Right Well, it's a really important conversation that Labour has
to have because you know, if you end up in
a situation where Winston says, look, I'll work with Labor
and I'd prefer to be in a you know, a
two party coalition then a three party coalition, then Labor
will have to make a very a very important decision
around whether they say, because you know, I have no
doubt that Hipkins will be the leader going into the election,

(02:09):
we will that Hipkins will stand aside and will appoint
someone that Winston can work with, or no, we're not
going to go into power. And now, the thing we
know about opposition is you don't have an ability to
influence anything. It's a complete and utter waste of time
from a political perspective. When you're in government, you get
to change the world. Right, So you go into politics
to be in government. So it is a really interesting dilimit. Now,

(02:30):
it may be that that situation doesn't arise, but I
can see a situation where that where the Labor cabinet, sorry,
the Labor caucus, has to make a very important decision
around what they do in a post election environment.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Problem is I'll tell you what the problem with them
stew Is that they I think they need to realize
how badly they need Winston, and in order for them
to realize that, they need to realize that most people
do not want to see the Maldi Party in government, right.
I don't think that. I don't know that they've realized
that yet.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't know. I think they probably have. I mean,
you know, I've been urging them, Not that they listen
to me, but I've been urging them to rule out
working with to Party Mary. I mean, I haven't spoken
to one person that I know that says I know,
we'd love to see to Party Marray was the government.
I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe closer the election, i'd.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Rule that Jay and Willie Jackson thinks that Marty Party
totally fine.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh my god, no, No. I think if they don't
rule out to Party Marray as they hidden the election,
they haven't got a hope in hell of getting their
hands on the leaves of power.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Okay, listen, you were the police minister, what's your insight
on whether the cops turn up to shoplifting under five
hundred dollars?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, I would go, you know, I've been on your
show before talking about the systems the rest. I think
that's really important. You know, the cops got limited resources.
I would rather they chase after you know, the pe
dealers and those are of causing the most mischief.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Did that ring true for you, Well, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Minute. It sounds a little strange because please deploy resources
based on needs. So if there's nothing much going on,
then of course they'll turn up. But if there's that
or they're chasing after someone who's committed a more serious crime,
then they will go for the more serious crime. But
it doesn't ring true that they just flatly refuse to
turn up and keeping a mind. Retail crime, man, it's
a killer if you've got to book some water store

(04:21):
and in the main street.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Absolutely, Stuart, thank you so much, appreciate it. Stuart Nash,
former Labor Party minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,
listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
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