Tensions are high in the House, as MPs go head-to-head over proposed sanctions for Te Pāti Māori MPs.
The Privileges Committee has recommended seven, and 21-day suspensions for three of its MPs - for actions during a haka performed at last year's Treaty Principles Bill vote.
NZ Herald political editor Thomas Coughlan unpacks the action from the debate.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thomas Coglin, the Herald's political editors with us.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Thomas, Hello here, the good afternoon.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Okay, is this debate dragging out? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Look? It is, it is dragging out. It needs to
finish at six o'clock, but that doesn't necessarily mean it
won't continue after that, So it's anyone's guess. And and uh,
they seem to be losing steam, but but they can
find steam, I guess as well.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So I'm going they only started at three. How are
they losing steam already?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, I mean it's it's what if they started they
I think they started just before three. An hour and
forty five minutes is pretty long for one one debate
in parliament, I reckon, Yeah, I think they've they'll they
they will certainly be able to drag it out to six,
I'm guessing. And whether that means that they'll pick it
up again another day, anyone's guess.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What's Labor doing.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Labor are not filibustering. They are speaking to the speaking
to the motion, and I think the speak couple of
speeches from Labor have been have been really strong. The
former speaking Adrian Rudraphe, who was known for being mild manager,
I guess, and holding his tongue, probably delivered the best
speech he's ever delivered in Parliament where he warned basically
(01:12):
the nets to say, look, you know, if the Privileges
Committee is going to be used to punish political opponents,
and and you know that is obviously a bit of
a stretch because obviously the Marti Party have done something
wrong and everyone agrees with that, But if you're going
to use the Privileges Committee as a sort of majoritary
in court, then that opens the door to a future
government by be a majority using the Privileges Committee to
(01:33):
try and you know, punish, punish people you don't agree with.
But then he turns to party Mary and he says,
you know, the founder of the Maori Party, Tariana Turia.
She came to Parliament, spoke on every every bill, spoke
in every motion. Really you know, worked worked her socks
off in parliament to create a name for herself and
(01:53):
to build that party. And and you know he looked
at the Maori Party and I mean didn't use so
many words, but was based saying that isn't exactly what
the Malori Party of today is doing. They're not showing
up at many debates, they're not really speaking on every emotion.
They're doing more on social media than they are in
the house. And he basically said, look, you know you've
got to leave you to live up to here and
(02:13):
you're not really you're not really doing it. You've got
a choice to make as well. Do you walk into
the Anaturia's sort of footsteps or or do you sort
of an influencer.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So so, do you get the impression that it is
starting to sink into labor that they don't necessarily want
to be too closely aligned with a brand that for
a lot of New Zealand Middle New Zealand will be
relatively toxic.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, yes, there was that done. There was that poll
this morning from RNZ read and it showed that behalf
of the country basically supports this this punishment or wants
to go further. So yes, and I think labor that
is sunk in for labor for a while. And you know,
put a column out on the weekend hear all about this,
that that labor Labor is realizing that obviously they do
(02:55):
need the numbers of Party Maori. But but to Party
Mary is that they are they are putting the ceiling
on Labor's appeal to Middle New Zealand, because you know,
this is the people's house, this is for all all
New Zealand and parting Malory probably are pushing the boat
out in terms of what Middle New Zealand can can
deal with with the theatrics.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Now do we have I mean, I'm still waiting personally
to hear from the police on this. Do you have
any understanding as to why the police didn't investigate the
peeping tom aspect of what Michael Forbes was allegedly up to,
because that is the that is the thing that is unlawful.
Why did they not charge him for that?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes, so that their statement is that the that they
they I think that it didn't meet the threshold for
prosecution potentially on an evidentiary basis. I am not sure
why that decision was made. I'm sure the police would
be scratching the head around that as well. And there's
also the issue of the no surprises aspect of this.
The former commissioner we found out today the former former
(03:50):
commissioner Andrew Costa didn't know about it, but the lam
about it. Yes, and you can't he doesn't have access
tools or files, said because he's a tone he's at
the Social Investment Agency now. But obviously, I mean this
is very clearly and no surprises issue, you know, I
would yeah, I would think, So it's why would it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Be Why would it be Thomas? Because if you have
somebody who you've looked at their phone and you go, now,
there's nothing to charge you over here, you haven't done
anything that we can charge you on, why would you
need to alert the employer who is the d I A?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Because I think the threshold is anything significant Now maybe
I suppose you could argue that it's not significant enough
significant would likely to generate controversy. And you know, obviously,
as we've seen the last twenty four hours, it certainly
generated controversy. So I think it probably would meet that
threshold where you'd alert alert the minister. But but yes,
I mean you could go back was July twenty twenty four,
(04:46):
I think when the when the complaint was first laid,
and perhaps back then they didn't think it admit a
threshold where they would take it further and where they
would alert the minister.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
But you think they should have I think.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, but based on what but based on what we
know now, I think it probably meets that no surprises
through Sholt.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, Hey, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
Thomas Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. For more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
Thomas Coglin, the Herald's political editors with us.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Thomas, Hello here, the good afternoon.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Okay, is this debate dragging out? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Look? It is, it is dragging out. It needs to
finish at six o'clock, but that doesn't necessarily mean it
won't continue after that, So it's anyone's guess. And and uh,
they seem to be losing steam, but but they can
find steam, I guess as well.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So I'm going they only started at three. How are
they losing steam already?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, I mean it's it's what if they started they
I think they started just before three. An hour and
forty five minutes is pretty long for one one debate
in parliament, I reckon, Yeah, I think they've they'll they
they will certainly be able to drag it out to six,
I'm guessing. And whether that means that they'll pick it
up again another day, anyone's guess.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What's Labor doing.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Labor are not filibustering. They are speaking to the speaking
to the motion, and I think the speak couple of
speeches from Labor have been have been really strong. The
former speaking Adrian Rudraphe, who was known for being mild manager,
I guess, and holding his tongue, probably delivered the best
speech he's ever delivered in Parliament where he warned basically
(01:12):
the nets to say, look, you know, if the Privileges
Committee is going to be used to punish political opponents,
and and you know that is obviously a bit of
a stretch because obviously the Marti Party have done something
wrong and everyone agrees with that, But if you're going
to use the Privileges Committee as a sort of majoritary
in court, then that opens the door to a future
government by be a majority using the Privileges Committee to
(01:33):
try and you know, punish, punish people you don't agree with.
But then he turns to party Mary and he says,
you know, the founder of the Maori Party, Tariana Turia.
She came to Parliament, spoke on every every bill, spoke
in every motion. Really you know, worked worked her socks
off in parliament to create a name for herself and
(01:53):
to build that party. And and you know he looked
at the Maori Party and I mean didn't use so
many words, but was based saying that isn't exactly what
the Malori Party of today is doing. They're not showing
up at many debates, they're not really speaking on every emotion.
They're doing more on social media than they are in
the house. And he basically said, look, you know you've
got to leave you to live up to here and
(02:13):
you're not really you're not really doing it. You've got
a choice to make as well. Do you walk into
the Anaturia's sort of footsteps or or do you sort
of an influencer.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So so, do you get the impression that it is
starting to sink into labor that they don't necessarily want
to be too closely aligned with a brand that for
a lot of New Zealand Middle New Zealand will be
relatively toxic.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, yes, there was that done. There was that poll
this morning from RNZ read and it showed that behalf
of the country basically supports this this punishment or wants
to go further. So yes, and I think labor that
is sunk in for labor for a while. And you know,
put a column out on the weekend hear all about this,
that that labor Labor is realizing that obviously they do
(02:55):
need the numbers of Party Maori. But but to Party
Mary is that they are they are putting the ceiling
on Labor's appeal to Middle New Zealand, because you know,
this is the people's house, this is for all all
New Zealand and parting Malory probably are pushing the boat
out in terms of what Middle New Zealand can can
deal with with the theatrics.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Now do we have I mean, I'm still waiting personally
to hear from the police on this. Do you have
any understanding as to why the police didn't investigate the
peeping tom aspect of what Michael Forbes was allegedly up to,
because that is the that is the thing that is unlawful.
Why did they not charge him for that?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes, so that their statement is that the that they
they I think that it didn't meet the threshold for
prosecution potentially on an evidentiary basis. I am not sure
why that decision was made. I'm sure the police would
be scratching the head around that as well. And there's
also the issue of the no surprises aspect of this.
The former commissioner we found out today the former former
(03:50):
commissioner Andrew Costa didn't know about it, but the lam
about it. Yes, and you can't he doesn't have access
tools or files, said because he's a tone he's at
the Social Investment Agency now. But obviously, I mean this
is very clearly and no surprises issue, you know, I
would yeah, I would think, So it's why would it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Be Why would it be Thomas? Because if you have
somebody who you've looked at their phone and you go, now,
there's nothing to charge you over here, you haven't done
anything that we can charge you on, why would you
need to alert the employer who is the d I A?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Because I think the threshold is anything significant Now maybe
I suppose you could argue that it's not significant enough
significant would likely to generate controversy. And you know, obviously,
as we've seen the last twenty four hours, it certainly
generated controversy. So I think it probably would meet that
threshold where you'd alert alert the minister. But but yes,
I mean you could go back was July twenty twenty four,
(04:46):
I think when the when the complaint was first laid,
and perhaps back then they didn't think it admit a
threshold where they would take it further and where they
would alert the minister.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
But you think they should have I think.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, but based on what but based on what we
know now, I think it probably meets that no surprises
through Sholt.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Okay, Hey, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
Thomas Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. For more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
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