Cherida Fraser: Sex Workers' Collective regional coordinator weighs in on Michael Forbes saga following resignation

There's concerns a former Prime Ministerial staffer hasn't faced charges after allegedly voice-recording sex workers.

Michael Forbes has quit as acting deputy press secretary over allegations he took compromising recordings of sex workers, and photos of women he didn't know.

A Wellington brothel complained to police last July, who found it didn't meet the threshold for prosecution.

Sex Workers' Collective regional coordinator Cherida Fraser says sometimes it's just the tip of the iceberg.

She explained more harm could occur, despite this seemingly being at the lower end of the spectrum.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look, there are questions now over why police failed to
charge former Beehive staffer Michael Forbes over the photos on
his phone. He was obviously called audio recording his sessions
with sex workers, and then his phone, it turned out,
also contained photos of women at the gym, women at
the supermarket and videos of women through windows at night.
Sheridan Fraser is with the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Hey
Shereda Cowder Heather Sheridan. Were you aware of this before

(00:23):
this broke in the newspapers yesterday.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes, at the time, on the day that it happened,
I was notified by the Brussel just to see if
I could connect them with a sex worker, a specific
sex worker friendly police officer to take the report. Unfortunately,
it was my day off and I couldn't get hold
of any of them, so they called one one one.
I understand.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay. Has it surprised you then, so you would have
been aware of what was on the phone yet?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Has it surprised you that the police have not investigated
or charged over at the very least the peeping tom
stuff which seems to be unlawful.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
It does seem to be unlawful. Yeah, I certainly wasn't
surprised about the audio recording. I was aware that was
not a crime. I was aware that taking photos in
public places is not necessarily a crime. The Peeping Tom's staff,
I'm not familiar enough with the laws. I wondered if
they just if maybe they were young police officers who

(01:24):
went familiar either and just thought if they were taken
in a public place, then maybe it wasn't a crime,
or maybe it was just the too hard basket in
terms of identifying who those women were.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Have you actually seen the content of that phone?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I haven't seen all the content, but I that I
have seen, you know, a couple of the a selection,
a couple of yow.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Do you know whether the Peeping Tom stuff that the
filming of the women through the windows? Reportedly? What were
those women identifiable? With the properties identifiable? It could the
cops have actually found those women.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I'm not sure. I think Michael Forbes would have had
to disclose where he took that video, and he did
seem to be reasonably cooperative, so it was probably possible
for the police to get that disclosure. Otherwise, it's just
it just seemed like an apartment building, you know, with
a lot of windows from AFAR, So yeah, it would

(02:25):
have been some extra rak and some police resource for
that end. You know, I suppose I would have liked
these things to be investigated because sometimes they are the
tip of the iceberg and there are significantly more harmful
things that occur, and when you know, this is seemingly

(02:47):
on the lower end of the spectrum, although very problematic
for the women involved, but yeah, sometimes it can be
an indicator of greater harms.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Acain, So would you like it would you like it
to be made unlawful to record intimate moments audio, you know,
the audio of it without the intent?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Absolutely? Absolutely. I think it's really important. Technology is changing
so quickly, and you know, there's deep fake abuse that's occurring,
and certainly in the context of sex, there's a lot
of language, and there's a lot of there's a lot
of chitter, chatter or engagement that we don't want other

(03:25):
people to hear in our realize it's a very very
private moment. It's a very private moment, and I think
intimate audio recordings should be on par with intimate visual recordings.
And it was something that was brought up at the
time the legislation came into Pass two thousand and six whatever,
but yeah, clearly it didn't get through sharre it.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
It's good to talk to you. I really appreciate your time.
That Sheridan Fraser, who is with the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective.
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