Prominent New Zealand leaders are coming together to express their concern about the country’s foreign policy direction.
In an open leader, Kiwi figures including Helen Clark, Sir David Carter and Dr Don Brash are warning the Government against taking an adversarial stance against China as part of an alignment with the US.
It comes ahead of the Prime Minister’s upcoming trip to China.
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark talks to Heather du Plessis-Allan about the letter.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now a group of senior former politicians have come out
(00:02):
against the government's foreign policy position. Don Brash, Jeffrey Palmer,
Helen Clark and David Carter are among a group who've
signed an open letter urging the Prime Minister to rethink
what they call an adversarial stance towards China. Now for more,
let's talk to Helen Clark High Helen Hia. Helen, what
is it that you are so worried about that you
guys have felt the need to take up full page
(00:22):
ads in a bunch of newspapers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
New Zealand's had a very carefully balanced foreign policy and
fully independent. So we have a major trade partner in
China with the US. We have a partner in values,
democratic systems, and also significant trade. But what we've seen
is this steady drift towards signing more and more military
(00:45):
agreements with the US, and clearly agreements that are aimed
at China, our major trade partner. Now, this could be
extremely costly to New Zealand. Firstly because countries that the
US perceives of as quote allies, which we haven't formed
been for quite a long time being asked to spend
huge amounts of money on the fence. And secondly, if
(01:07):
China decided to retaliate in some way, then our trade
is endangered. So there's quite risky territory here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, not even to mention the fact that the US
is unreliable. Right, They'll be with us until it suits,
and they'll leave us sitting there.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
This is exactly the point. So you could be making,
you know, all sorts of statements in line with the
rhetoric today and then you wake up, as we did
this morning, to find that President She and President Trump
have had a very friendly conversation. Now I'm troubled. I've
had a friendly conversation. It's been it's been needed. But
you don't know what dime it's going to turn on today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, but now, what are you worried about? I mean
that you guys are acting as if you are genuinely
very concerned about something quite drastic happening.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What is that? Well, the most drastic thing that could
happen would be non tariff barriers starting to enter the
trade with China. Yeah, and you know, I mean think
back to Rainbow Warrior when the frozen lamb's brains rotted
and the port are not suggesting that that considering any
such thing. But if New Zealand continues to poke in
(02:11):
the eye gratuitously sailing through the Taiwan Straits of the
naval vessel, all the rhetoric about the threat these series
of new agreements that are being signed. I mean Chinese,
you know they watch all this. I'm not saying we
should be beholden to any one country. I'm saying, as
the colleagues are saying, can we please get back that
(02:34):
careful balance between our relationships now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
The thing is the use of the word adversarial. Right,
it reads as if you guys think that we are
provoking China. But is it not the case that China
is actually provoking us and is a threat to us.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, I don't accept that it's a threat to us.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
How do we explain them sailing the warships down the
Tasman Sea.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, actually they have total freedom of navigation, and of
course Zealand exercise freedom of navigation sailing through the Taiwan
Straits prior to that, So there can be a bit
of tit for tat in this.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, that is an act of provocation, isn't it. I
mean they're not just doing that for a little bit
of a sight seeing exercise, but.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Anymore than New Zealand sailing through the Taiwan straight. I think,
you know, what goes around comes around. I think where
they made a significant mistake, Heather, was they should have
advised they were going to do their firing exercises and
that remember that had some impact on aviation and so on.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That was deliberate, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, you know, we should have we should have been advised.
Australian should have been advised, no question.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But these are the tensions that are coming into the relationship,
and as I say, that can play out in different ways,
including with respect to non tariff barriers. For example, you know,
a wink and a nod from Beijing means that travelers
don't come to New Zealand in great numbers and we've
never got back to the pre pandemic levels.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah. Now, listen, what do you make of Winston saying
that the three of you are irrelevant, three of you
being the former prime ministers and opposition leaders.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Obviously it's interesting, isn't it When you make a point
that's back with a number of factual statements about what
we're concerned about, that their immediate response is to mount
a personal attack. I'm not going to descend to that level.
He should address the substance of what we're saying, which
(04:28):
is that the government is intent on a radical realignment
of New Zealand foreign policy, and that never took that
to the electorate, and the electorate rightly really is focused
on the cost of living and housing and a lot
of other things. But meanwhile a realignment which carries some
real risks in New Zealand is underway.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Helen, it's good to talk to you. I really appreciate
your time. Helen Clark, former Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
They'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Now a group of senior former politicians have come out
(00:02):
against the government's foreign policy position. Don Brash, Jeffrey Palmer,
Helen Clark and David Carter are among a group who've
signed an open letter urging the Prime Minister to rethink
what they call an adversarial stance towards China. Now for more,
let's talk to Helen Clark High Helen Hia. Helen, what
is it that you are so worried about that you
guys have felt the need to take up full page
(00:22):
ads in a bunch of newspapers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
New Zealand's had a very carefully balanced foreign policy and
fully independent. So we have a major trade partner in
China with the US. We have a partner in values,
democratic systems, and also significant trade. But what we've seen
is this steady drift towards signing more and more military
(00:45):
agreements with the US, and clearly agreements that are aimed
at China, our major trade partner. Now, this could be
extremely costly to New Zealand. Firstly because countries that the
US perceives of as quote allies, which we haven't formed
been for quite a long time being asked to spend
huge amounts of money on the fence. And secondly, if
(01:07):
China decided to retaliate in some way, then our trade
is endangered. So there's quite risky territory here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, not even to mention the fact that the US
is unreliable. Right, They'll be with us until it suits,
and they'll leave us sitting there.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
This is exactly the point. So you could be making,
you know, all sorts of statements in line with the
rhetoric today and then you wake up, as we did
this morning, to find that President She and President Trump
have had a very friendly conversation. Now I'm troubled. I've
had a friendly conversation. It's been it's been needed. But
you don't know what dime it's going to turn on today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, but now, what are you worried about? I mean
that you guys are acting as if you are genuinely
very concerned about something quite drastic happening.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What is that? Well, the most drastic thing that could
happen would be non tariff barriers starting to enter the
trade with China. Yeah, and you know, I mean think
back to Rainbow Warrior when the frozen lamb's brains rotted
and the port are not suggesting that that considering any
such thing. But if New Zealand continues to poke in
(02:11):
the eye gratuitously sailing through the Taiwan Straits of the
naval vessel, all the rhetoric about the threat these series
of new agreements that are being signed. I mean Chinese,
you know they watch all this. I'm not saying we
should be beholden to any one country. I'm saying, as
the colleagues are saying, can we please get back that
(02:34):
careful balance between our relationships now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
The thing is the use of the word adversarial. Right,
it reads as if you guys think that we are
provoking China. But is it not the case that China
is actually provoking us and is a threat to us.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, I don't accept that it's a threat to us.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
How do we explain them sailing the warships down the
Tasman Sea.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, actually they have total freedom of navigation, and of
course Zealand exercise freedom of navigation sailing through the Taiwan
Straits prior to that, So there can be a bit
of tit for tat in this.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well, that is an act of provocation, isn't it. I
mean they're not just doing that for a little bit
of a sight seeing exercise, but.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Anymore than New Zealand sailing through the Taiwan straight. I think,
you know, what goes around comes around. I think where
they made a significant mistake, Heather, was they should have
advised they were going to do their firing exercises and
that remember that had some impact on aviation and so on.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That was deliberate, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, you know, we should have we should have been advised.
Australian should have been advised, no question.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But these are the tensions that are coming into the relationship,
and as I say, that can play out in different ways,
including with respect to non tariff barriers. For example, you know,
a wink and a nod from Beijing means that travelers
don't come to New Zealand in great numbers and we've
never got back to the pre pandemic levels.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah. Now, listen, what do you make of Winston saying
that the three of you are irrelevant, three of you
being the former prime ministers and opposition leaders.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Obviously it's interesting, isn't it When you make a point
that's back with a number of factual statements about what
we're concerned about, that their immediate response is to mount
a personal attack. I'm not going to descend to that level.
He should address the substance of what we're saying, which
(04:28):
is that the government is intent on a radical realignment
of New Zealand foreign policy, and that never took that
to the electorate, and the electorate rightly really is focused
on the cost of living and housing and a lot
of other things. But meanwhile a realignment which carries some
real risks in New Zealand is underway.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Helen, it's good to talk to you. I really appreciate
your time. Helen Clark, former Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
They'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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