Jane Wrightson: Retirement Commissioner weighs in on means-testing for Superannuation debate

Discussions are circling on whether now's the time to means-test Superannuation.

2023 Census data shows 33,000 over-65s earned $100,00-to-$200,000 dollars - and more than 9,000 topped that figure.

Retirement Commissioner Jane Wrightson says if there is a strong economic argument Super isn't affordable, means-testing could be worth it.

"If you're earning more than, say, $180,000 a year and you're claiming the super, then the cost to the taxpayer might be questioned."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now the answer to the cost of pension problem that
we've got in the country may well be means testing
super it turns out that nine thousand people aged sixty
five plus are earning more than two hundred thousand dollars
a year and presumably still taking the pension. Now, the
Retirement Commissioner Jane writes and doesn't hate the idea. Hi, Jane, Hi, Ever,
at what point would you means tested?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I would not means test straight away. My point is
that we need to look at this as a systemic,
wide issue. Right I'm one record is saying that we
should keep the retirement a pension eight at sixty five
if there is a really strong economic argument that we
can't afford it, and I think it's a highly debatable one,

(00:43):
but let's say for a moment there is. Then we
need to look at a basket of options to make
it the fairest possible solution. So if we put it
up to sixty seven, the next question is who does
it hurt. If it hurts women, absolutely, because of our
patchier retirement savings and a time out of the workforce,
that it's women, Marty Pacifica and people who work manually

(01:07):
of course, whose bodies were out a bit earlier, So
I'd want to see an actual addressing of those issues
at the same time. And if you're going to do that,
then one of the other policy options is of course,
means testing. So if you're earning quite a lot of money,
then it's a fair question to go should you be
able to claim the super as well? And generally speaking,

(01:28):
there are two answers to that. One is I worked
all my life and therefore just you'll ave to go
and thank you very much, and that's an argument. And
the other one is going, if you're earning more than
say one hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year, and
you're claiming the super, then the cost of the taxpayer
might be questioned.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, okay, now, Jane, I think I don't think that
we should touch the pension and it should stay exactly
where it is. So I want I'm just telling you
this so that you can furiously agree with me if
you want to. I'm not going to fight with you.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, talk to me about why you think it's possibly affordable,
because I do too.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well. The forecasts are all black hats and doom glooms. Right,
So all the Treasury forecasts and all the economists look
at it from a thirty forty to fifty year cycle
and go, we can't aford it on the current trajectory.
And I go, maybe there's two things to think about here. Firstly,
this is about government choices, so we would have to

(02:26):
actively choose not to support older people in their in
their in their senior years. Okay, you can make that choice.
And secondly, the assumptions around this are all so long
term that I go, I don't know any piece of
long term thinking. Actually, mostly in my life that's been right.

(02:47):
They're just very good educated guesses. So that means I
don't think that there is a crisis brewing. If there is,
if we fall into a five year recession, then we
start to go, yes, now maybe there's an issue, But
right now I think we go ups and downs all
the rest of it, and we need to keep thinking

(03:08):
about what the core question is, which is how do
we want to treat older people in New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
To write Jane Preach, Thank you, Jane Writes and Retirement Commissioner.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
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